A sneak peak of .. Leavu3

[Beeroshima]

because there are people who DO not use mods they just dont, they play the game the way ED released it and by adding this you give a GROUP the ability to cheat players who use no mods that's my issue with this. IF ED put it out to EVERYONE then it would be fair......

Hey, there are people who don't use TeamSpeak as well. I guess using that is cheating too. Are you going to start playing without it? This would be an issue if the mod wasn't available to everyone. That being said, why punish those who are willing to use it vs. Those who don't?

 

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[sobe]

My 2 cents.

I don't consider the mod a cheat. However, to be fair to all players, common courtesy would dictate that at the beginning of a multiplayer match, either the server adm or the group that wants to use this mod-would simply announce what they are going to allow-either all use the mod or no one uses it.

Equipment like a touchscreen for Helios, the TM WH controllers, tracker, TS, etc have been used by some but not all players and no one has complained.

Just use common courtesy when desiring to use the mod.

[Rlaxoxo]

My 2 cents.

I don't consider the mod a cheat. However, to be fair to all players, common courtesy would dictate that at the beginning of a multiplayer match, either the server adm or the group that wants to use this mod-would simply announce what they are going to allow-either all use the mod or no one uses it.

Equipment like a touchscreen for Helios, the TM WH controllers, tracker, TS, etc have been used by some but not all players and no one has complained.

Just use common courtesy when desiring to use the mod.

 

I agree with you but saying that how would you use this mod without any touchscreens and stuff like how do you use it generally?

[Beeroshima]

Huh? What do you mean?

 

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[xcom]

Yoda, exceptional work on this Mod!

 

I would like to clarify on the BuddySpike team responses, we try to keep our campaigns balanced and fair.

When something like this occurs, it's obvious there's an issue with it for many players and it actually gives better SA to anyone who uses it (although it is an awesome mod), therefore we would normally reject it for use on the server.

 

About my phrasing for - "hack-able" and others that we might have used accidentally, it is in no way our means to indicate Yoda's work here is not genuine or justified, simply to indicate it gives slight advantage which we try to balance (i.e removing EWR capability so red side will not have datalink as does the blue side does not have datalink).

 

So I suggest this thread goes back to it's original purpose which is this great Mod.

[RvEYoda]

Yoda, exceptional work on this Mod!

 

I would like to clarify on the BuddySpike team responses, we try to keep our campaigns balanced and fair.

When something like this occurs, it's obvious there's an issue with it for many players and it actually gives better SA to anyone who uses it (although it is an awesome mod), therefore we would normally reject it for use on the server.

 

About my phrasing for - "hack-able" and others that we might have used accidentally, it is in no way our means to indicate Yoda's work here is not genuine or justified, simply to indicate it gives slight advantage which we try to balance (i.e removing EWR capability so red side will not have datalink as does the blue side does not have datalink).

 

So I suggest this thread goes back to it's original purpose which is this great Mod.

 

Thanks Xcom. If there's anything you are wondering about the mod, or have suggestions for, just jump on our ts and ask. I'm around virtually every day European evening time.

[jester_]

This mod will definitely destroy DCS as we know it. It is far far far worse than the simple .lua tweaks that literally anyone can make to add phoenix missiles to their aircraft to shoot others down from 100nm away! OOOH THE HUMANITY!

 

/s

[Beeroshima]

I heard this mod gives you command of satellites with laser beams.

 

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[OldE24]

I heard this mod gives you command of satellites with laser beams.

 

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You should stop trolling, i'll say the mod is nice and yoda has done good work my problem.

 

 

I dont need a mod to bandaid my SA it's just fine but if were gonna use this i'll get everyone to use it and i'll run a rape train on people..that's my problem it makes a bad pilot decent and make a group of bad pilots good.

 

If we all wanna use this mod as a FFA i'll be happy to get a few friends and run a train on people in MP.

[Beeroshima]

Then do it. If they don't use the resources available to them, then that's on them. I fly the 27 fairly regularly. I enjoy the aspects of both platforms. I'm not upset about it being there.

 

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[jester_]

i'll get everyone to use it and i'll run a rape train on people..that's my problem it makes a bad pilot decent and make a group of bad pilots good.

 

I keep seeing this thrown around by you here, and another guy on the Hoggit subreddit...

 

How exactly will this make you a good pilot? I don't really think that a Mig-29 knowing an F-15 has him locked from his right side, as opposed to what we have now which is "A fighter plane has me locked from the right side" is going to make any bit of difference in anyone's pilot skills.

[OldE24]

I keep seeing this thrown around by you here, and another guy on the Hoggit subreddit...

 

How exactly will this make you a good pilot? I don't really think that a Mig-29 knowing an F-15 has him locked from his right side, as opposed to what we have now which is "A fighter plane has me locked from the right side" is going to make any bit of difference in anyone's pilot skills.

 

 

it's a band-aid for bad SA.......

[Frostie]

While i Agree this mod should be limited to the F-15C as it did have Link16.

 

Do you have a link to this claim?

Link-16 has not been an easy system to implement, it is only through BMS that everyone believes it is such a 'free for all' system. Only one F-15 squadron acquired JTIDS and that was a test fleet of 18 F-15s based at Elmendorf plus a few F-14s. JTIDS and the proposed upgrade to all F-15s was cancelled in 1996 due to the expense and they moved on to MIDS which was projected for 2010. Those 18 F-15Cs with JTIDS were upgraded with an AN/APG-63(v)2 AESA radar in 2000 which is clearly not the DCS F-15. In 2011 F-15C/D were upgraded from the DCS version AN/APG-63(v)1 radar and outfitted with the AN/APG-63(v)3 AESA radars possibly in line with MIDS integration.

 

 

 

"https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1235/MR1235.chap9.pdf"

 

Smaller JTIDS terminals (Class 2) were also developed. However, because of their high cost, large size, and reliability issues, only a limited number of such terminals were procured to equip U.S. fighters specifically—U.S. Navy F-14Ds and a single squadron of U.S. Air Force F-15Cs.

 

The cancellation of the JTIDS Class 2R program in 1995 and the decision to join the MIDS program have had cost and schedule implications for the Air Force. The additional cost of procuring the MIDS FDL for the F-15 may be as much as $20 million, but the actual cost is probably much less. There is a strong possibility that the Class 2R program would have encountered significant cost growth (for example, the OSD Cost Analysis Improvement Group (CAIG) concluded at the time that the cost projections for the terminal were too optimistic). Had that been the case, the cost advantage of the Class 2R terminal would have been significantly reduced.

More important for the Air Force has been the delay in acquiring a Link 16 capability for the F-15 aircraft. We estimate this delay to be a minimum of almost two years. This estimate includes only the delays associated with delivery of the terminals, but there may be additional delays caused by possible difficulties in coordinating FDL integration with other avionics upgrades and depot-level maintenance for the F-15 fleet. Furthermore, because the MIDS LVT EMD program has incurred a substantial delay as well, there will also be a minimum delay of nearly three years in the Link 16 IOC for F-16s. As a consequence, the F-16 upgrade program has had to be reprogrammed to adjust for the LVT program delay. The delays in acquiring a Link 16 capability for the F-15 and F-16 aircraft are discussed in Appendix C.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Frostie

[Coxy_99]

Me personally i do not like it (My opinion) However a very clever mod to say the least, My question is, If you can mod it this far is there not any reason why you cant edit this to show the enemy aircraft firing at you? Same as you would or could see the shot fired in the observer slot in multiplayer and would not stop people trying For example the whole AIM-54?

[ZerXen]

I keep seeing this thrown around by you here, and another guy on the Hoggit subreddit...

 

How exactly will this make you a good pilot? I don't really think that a Mig-29 knowing an F-15 has him locked from his right side, as opposed to what we have now which is "A fighter plane has me locked from the right side" is going to make any bit of difference in anyone's pilot skills.

 

OK... Super fast refresh-rate RWR that is ignorant of RWR sensors blind-spots (like direct bottom etc) and can shown in very high resolution so that you can see exactly how many contacts in what exact direction are locking you in sub-degree details of azimut (even 2 and 3 ship formations you know exactly who from them are locking you and who doesn't, no clutter), A2A and A2G filters, etc... this is much more than was intended for F15C to have in-game.

 

And I am saying that as someone who is looking at Leavu3 with great respect for the author (Yoda) and great potential for team vs team scheduled matches when both sides agree to use this (and as Falcon BMS pilot I was missing Dlink for long time in DCS), but already this is now half under a month since first post and is already starting a trench war in this community and things like this appearing:

 

(courtesy of two very angry German gentlemen who shared this with me this morning on TS, so I am NOT the author here of the image below :P, but it unfortunately represents the mood when leavu3 users appear on public servers right now and it saddens me this even started ... )

 

[Stuge]

I'm sure it's a nice mod, but surely using it on a supposedly mod-free public server ventures to the cheating side of the spectrum... how could anyone call exporting real time data from game files not cheating :)

 

I see best use in private online sessions and offline.

[RvEYoda]

OK... Super fast refresh-rate RWR that is ignorant of RWR sensors blind-spots (like direct bottom etc) and can shown in very high resolution so that you can see exactly how many contacts in what exact direction are locking you in sub-degree details of azimut (even 2 and 3 ship formations you know exactly who from them are locking you and who doesn't, no clutter), A2A and A2G filters, etc... this is much more than was intended for F15C to have in-game.

[/url]

 

Please do not claim things like that which just arent true.

 

- Leavu has the same blind spot limitations as the ingame rwr.

- Leavu gets it's source data from rwr ownship lua data export API from the game, made by ED

- Leavu displays rwr information at the same accuracy and detail the game exports sensor data at. The only reason the ingame rwr is slower is because it has a cosmetic slowdown coded on top of it. I agree this slowdown should be on the source data level - and would recommend to ED to implement that in their ownship sensor export API. Way back (many years ago) when the cosmetic slowdown was not yet implemented - the behaviour was identical (leavu2).

 

Ingame displays can be exported to external monitors with 1024x1024 resolution - without leavu. It's in the options. Many people exported ingame displays before leavu came.

 

I'm always open to suggestions and improvements, so it's sad that people write in public with the assumption that you're trying to cheat them, to make their lives less fun, maybe you even think we're trying to steal your bank accounts - We're not. We're just trying to make the sim more fun. And server admins are free to configure their environments as they wish.

 

It seems like now some people are saying "bah I was killed by someone else than my target, they must have been using leavu! Baan em all - Yarrrr!!" (Not directed at you Zer). Sometimes you just face an opponent who has better SA, energy, team coordination or any other vital air combat currency. Sometimes you just have a bad day.

 

 

Example of a different approach (not directed at you Zer - but as advice to anyone reading the thread):

"We cannot allow leavu on our server at this point - because of X, Y and Z, but if you do A, B or C, then we can talk about it". Or, "Our server only allows unmodded game". Let's keep civil here :)

 

 

Another example is:

We use Leavu for 2 seater training in RvE. You can configure leavu to run as a pure remote listener - e.g. for internal squad trainings. This way I could show 10 people my radar screen at the same time, what I did, and how that affected my scan area etc. Very useful to teach squad mates about horizon stabilization, PRFs, scan width, tws vs rws etc. This is an alternative to a regular live stream setup.

 

 

.

Edited May 2, 2016 by =RvE=Yoda

[RvEYoda]

I'm sure it's a nice mod, but surely using it on a supposedly mod-free public server ventures to the cheating side of the spectrum... how could anyone call exporting real time data from game files not cheating :)

 

I see best use in private online sessions and offline.

 

Data is exported through APIs documented and explained by ED, that have been used by cockpit builders forever - It's how it's presented and shared that is causing server admins to have to make a decision whether to allow it or not. Most likely some will block it, others will allow it.

 

If a public server says no to mods - leavu should not be used there (and in a few days will not even be possible to start)

If another public server says yes - leavu and other cockpit mods can be used there

Edited May 2, 2016 by =RvE=Yoda

[Darkwolf]

As i said in the other thread, whoever uses this for cheating is just as stupid as he can.

 

Exploiting ED's imposter.lua is just way more easy and accessible to everyone, without any option for server control. :P

[Rlaxoxo]

Someone needs to lock this thread, dumb people are pouring in

[ZerXen]

Please do not claim things like that which just arent true.

 

- Leavu has the same blind spot limitations as the ingame rwr.

Hmm, have to re-test quickly, spent with this only few hours yesterday in instant-action SP and was pretty-sure leavu3 RWR was displaying bogies from direct below me (ergo flanker bottom blind-spot) while I was defending and flankers RWR was quiet. Is there a delay between leavu3 and game (lua export) that could have caused that I was seing a few seconds late RWR info in leavu3?

[RvEYoda]

Me personally i do not like it (My opinion) However a very clever mod to say the least, My question is, If you can mod it this far is there not any reason why you cant edit this to show the enemy aircraft firing at you? Same as you would or could see the shot fired in the observer slot in multiplayer and would not stop people trying For example the whole AIM-54?

 

No - Leavu could not be edited to show that.

 

Leavu only has access to data given by ownship lua export api - That means it only accesses the same data source as your ingame cockpit sensors. Example:

Your position, speed, altitude, radar status, targets/detected contacts on radar, detected rwr threats. This limitation is dictated by the MP server (has been so for 10 years). Same reason why tacview doesnt work for clients on most public servers. The ownship lua export API isn't perfect - It has limitations and discrepancies compared to ingame presentation. One example mentioned previously in this thread is the speed at which rwr data is produced. In some areas Leavu has been constructed to artificially "dumb down" itself to look more like the game - but not all. Reasons: 1- I haven't found all places yet, and 2: I have limited time - I also have a real life to attend to :).

 

Bottom line: Leavu cannot access any information from your own game on enemies unless you first see them on radar/rwr. What makes you see more is that leavu shares this information with your wingmen if you enable data link - so that you merge information from all friends in your flight.

Edited May 2, 2016 by =RvE=Yoda

[RvEYoda]

Hmm, have to re-test quickly, spent with this only few hours yesterday in instant-action SP and was pretty-sure leavu3 RWR was displaying bogies from direct below me (ergo flanker bottom blind-spot) while I was defending and flankers RWR was quiet. Is there a delay between leavu3 and game (lua export) that could have caused that I was seing a few seconds late RWR info in leavu3?

 

There is probably not much more than 1/30th of a second delay between the game's lua export api and leavu displaying new data

 

- However, what you are most likely seeing is that the lua export API does not clear/forget old contacts until after at least 3-5 seconds.

 

Instead try this:

- Have an enemy lock you,

- beam him maybe 70 degrees (so he keeps lock)., or just stay above

- Fly with 90 degree bank for a few seconds showing your belly to the target

 

This way you will lose the warning eventually.

 

The cosmetic layer applied to rwr data ingame may also be interfering - making "forget times" different. It is not possible to construct an external data driven mod to have the exact same timeouts for rwr contacts unfortunately. The only way would be that these kinds of behavior instead are encoded in the data source that DCS exports through the ownship lua export API. That way both ingame and external RWRs would look the same in that regard. - I.E. ED removing the ingame cosmetic layer and implementing an actual data source change.

Edited May 2, 2016 by =RvE=Yoda

[Beeroshima]

And herein lies the biggest problem with this mod. Ignorant people who have no facts and a lot of misinformation are showing up and spouting off their opinion as fact. This is precisely why I would like intelligent conversation from those who are informed to happen in the thread regarding blue flag

 

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[Coxy_99]

No - Leavu could not be edited to show that.

 

Leavu only has access to data given by ownship lua export api - That means it only accesses the same data source as your ingame cockpit sensors. Example:

Your position, speed, altitude, radar status, targets/detected contacts on radar, detected rwr threats. This limitation is dictated by the MP server (has been so for 10 years). Same reason why tacview doesnt work for clients on most public servers. The ownship lua export API isn't perfect - It has limitations and discrepancies compared to ingame presentation. One example mentioned previously in this thread is the speed at which rwr data is produced. In some areas Leavu has been constructed to artificially "dumb down" itself to look more like the game - but not all. Reasons: 1- I haven't found all places yet, and 2: I have limited time - I also have a real life to attend to :).

 

Bottom line: Leavu cannot access any information from your own game on enemies unless you first see them on radar/rwr. What makes you see more is that leavu shares this information with your wingmen if you enable data link - so that you merge information from all friends in your flight.

 

Fair game i thought id ask the question tho, Being newish to dcs and newer to mods like these, ED's F-18 will have datalink anyway wouldnt it that would be the same thing?