Ramsay Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 1) Why is it that I don't need any left rudder input when I suddenly decrease the collective (or lose power)? The sudden main rotor torque change must affect the helicopter somehow... She now feels like an RC helicopter with a heading hold gyro. The Autopilot/Power Assist/SAS compensates ( driven by the gyros) for pitch, roll and yaw changes within certain air speed limits and/or pilot control inputs. However the SAS, as modelled, may have too much authority ATM and there may be changes in a future patch, following RL gazelle pilot feedback to improve the sim and/or explain some counter intuitive behaviour to players. i9 9900K @4.7GHz, 64GB DDR4, RTX4070 12GB, 1+2TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 4+1TB SSD, Winwing Orion 2 F-15EX Throttle + F-16EX Stick, TPR Pedals, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboHog Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) The Autopilot/Power Assist/SAS compensates ( driven by the gyros) for pitch, roll and yaw changes within certain air speed limits and/or pilot control inputs. However the SAS, as modelled, may have too much authority ATM and there may be changes in a future patch, following RL gazelle pilot feedback to improve the sim and/or explain some counter intuitive behaviour to players. Hope so... Can't imagine this is realistic given the sudden change in force balance and the compensating - rather than anticipating - nature of a gyro. Let me see what happens without the gyro/AP system turned on So I tried that... Looks like it has nothing to do with the SAS/AP system... Reaction to torque changes during forward flight is almost absent... should it be like this? Edited June 13, 2016 by TurboHog 'Frett' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredo_69 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 (edited) SAS need's to be explained! Hi, After 4 hrs in the Gazelle now I have the impression that it almost flies itself... As a pilot you only need small short touches to the cyclic as the chopper i self-stabilizing. Even with max turbulence and 20 m/s winds it flies perfectly stable by itself (with autopilot off and me not touching the cyclic). I guess that it is the "SAS" (?) doing the job for me? So this SAS "thing" (or something) needs to be explained early in the manual for new pilots to understand, especially if they (like me) come from flying the Huey (which has nothing like this "SAS"(?) in it in DCS). Can this SAS (or something) be turned off by the pilot? Sincerely, Fredrik Edited June 20, 2016 by Fredo_69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSKRipper Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Hi, After 4 hrs in the Gazelle now I have the impression that it almost flies itself... As a pilot you only need small short touches to the cyclic as the chopper i self-stabilizing. Even with max turbulence and 20 m/s winds it flies perfectly stable by itself (with autopilot off and me not touching the cyclic). I guess that it is the "SAS" (?) doing the job for me? So this SAS "thing" (or something) needs to be explained early in the manual for new pilots to understand, especially if they (like me) come from flying the Huey (which has nothing like this "SAS"(?) in it in DCS). Can this SAS (or something) be turned off by the pilot? Sincerely, Fredrik Hi Fredrik, I would suggest you use the control config to set the function "Autopilot Master" to your HOTAS. If needed you could deactivate the assist at once and switch it on again for normal control. I use the manual mode for fast and tight turns which works very well with a little practice. i9 9900K @ 5,0GHz | 1080GTX | 32GB RAM | 256GB, 512GB & 1TB Samsung SSDs | TIR5 w/ Track Clip | Virpil T-50 Stick with extension + Warthog Throttle | MFG Crosswind pedals | Gametrix 908 Jetseat [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredo_69 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) Hi Fredrik, I would suggest you use the control config to set the function "Autopilot Master" to your HOTAS. If needed you could deactivate the assist at once and switch it on again for normal control. I use the manual mode for fast and tight turns which works very well with a little practice. Thanks for the advice! I had already tried that. But since you suggest it, I have tried it once again to be sure. Switching off the autopilot masterswitch has no noticeable effect on the flight characteristics for me. So the chopper is self-stabilising... SAS=Stability Assistance System?? //Fredrik Edited June 21, 2016 by Fredo_69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSKRipper Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Thanks for the advice! I had already tried that. But since you suggest it, I have tried it once again to be sure. Switching off the autopilot masterswitch has no noticeable effect on the flight characteristics for me. So the chopper is self-stabilising... SAS=Stability Assistance System?? //Fredrik You should notice a difference at least when flying less than 120 km/h. I recommend a look in Chucks guide: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=166627 See part 16... i9 9900K @ 5,0GHz | 1080GTX | 32GB RAM | 256GB, 512GB & 1TB Samsung SSDs | TIR5 w/ Track Clip | Virpil T-50 Stick with extension + Warthog Throttle | MFG Crosswind pedals | Gametrix 908 Jetseat [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredo_69 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Thanks again! Chucks guide was nice, but I would still like some more info on the SAS... Now I have double verified it again - turning off the auto pilot has no noticeable effect on the helicopters flight characteristics below 120 km/h for me. I have turned off all three axis switches AND the masterswitch - NO effect whatsoever. The chopper has a STRONG "fly-by-wire" feel to it... //Fredrik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
52 MI1T Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Hello! Does anyone knows how many polygons in Gazelle model with and without payload? Smile Pilots Club (SPC) / Клуб Веселых Пилотов (КВП) =[:)]=MI1T :pilotfly: КВП на YouTube :pilotfly: Twitch.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSKRipper Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Thanks again! Chucks guide was nice, but I would still like some more info on the SAS... Now I have double verified it again - turning off the auto pilot has no noticeable effect on the helicopters flight characteristics below 120 km/h for me. I have turned off all three axis switches AND the masterswitch - NO effect whatsoever. The chopper has a STRONG "fly-by-wire" feel to it... //Fredrik And you are sure that you have unchecked the "game flight mode" box under options? When I'm in a slow foward movement I can feel instant feedback from the helicopter when switching the AP off. The helo tries to lean to one side and becomes more susceptible to control inputs. No idea what's wrong on your side but it's working fine in my case... i9 9900K @ 5,0GHz | 1080GTX | 32GB RAM | 256GB, 512GB & 1TB Samsung SSDs | TIR5 w/ Track Clip | Virpil T-50 Stick with extension + Warthog Throttle | MFG Crosswind pedals | Gametrix 908 Jetseat [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C6_Hellfrog Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 the thing which has the most impact is if you turn off the gyro stab... then the gazelle becomes much more difficult to control... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredo_69 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 And you are sure that you have unchecked the "game flight mode" box under options? When I'm in a slow foward movement I can feel instant feedback from the helicopter when switching the AP off. The helo tries to lean to one side and becomes more susceptible to control inputs. No idea what's wrong on your side but it's working fine in my case... Yes, I have simulation (not game) settings. Turning on/off the autopilot ha no noticeable effect for me. In wind of 20 m/s and max turbulence settings, I can throw the pedals left/right until the chopper spins 60 rpm and pull the collective up/down - and the chopper just spins steady as a rock. If I do it with autopilot on or off dosent matter - steady as a rock she flies... IF thats realistic (?) its OK with me... I have no idea to tell really, but it seems a bit to good to be true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredo_69 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) the thing which has the most impact is if you turn off the gyro stab... then the gazelle becomes much more difficult to control... Wow, thank You! That made her feel like I thought a helicopter should be. Need to include that in the manual! Now I can fly her like she deserves :-) Thanks/Fredrik Edited June 22, 2016 by Fredo_69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holbeach Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Yes, I have simulation (not game) settings. Turning on/off the autopilot ha no noticeable effect for me. In wind of 20 m/s and max turbulence settings, I can throw the pedals left/right until the chopper spins 60 rpm and pull the collective up/down - and the chopper just spins steady as a rock. If I do it with autopilot on or off dosent matter - steady as a rock she flies... IF thats realistic (?) its OK with me... I have no idea to tell really, but it seems a bit to good to be true? You mean like this? .. I7 2600K @ 3.8, CoolerMaster 212X, EVGA GTX 1070 8gb. RAM 16gb Corsair, 1kw PSU. 2 x WD SSD. 1 x Samsung M2 NVMe. 3 x HDD. Saitek X-52. Saitek Pro Flight pedals. CH Flight Sim yoke. TrackIR 5. Win 10 Pro. IIyama 1080p. MSAA x 2, SSAA x 1.5. Settings High. Harrier/Spitfire/Beaufighter/The Channel, fanboy.. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Dioxin Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Expecting an Indian attack? Kneeboard Guides Rig: Asus B650-GAMING PLUS; Ryzen 7800X3D ; 64GB DDR5 5600; RTX 4080; VPC T50 CM2 HOTAS; SN-1 Pedals; VR = Pico 4 over VD Wireless + Index; Point Control v2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredo_69 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) Yes Holbeach, like that. And in 20 m/s wind with max turbulence in the wether settings. The Gazelle is much less sensitive to wind and turbulence than the Huey even though its a much lighter helicopter than the Huey. Even with gyro stab turned off (!), and the autopilot off, its very stable as long as you keep your hands off the cyclic. I'ts to good to be true? /Fredrik Edited June 22, 2016 by Fredo_69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C6_Hellfrog Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) realistic settings on flight model from 1.53 update cyclic inputs are VERY sensitive, as for rudder I have a warthog basis with extension DIY is 35 cm height, and usually cyclic moves are in a circle less than 10 cm diameter in maximum, very often 1 - 3 cm is enough... and rudders inputs with a mfg crosswind is often a few mm press, at some times I go to a 1/3 or pass a 1/2 of length of the possible move, but rarely, except in very abrupt manoeuvers you have no interest to try before you get familiar with the flying another commonly encountered error is often people are making over corrections in inputs and don't wait some 1/4 to 1/2 to 1 sec of delay before response to the inputs... you have to be very gentle with that subtil "demoiselle" Edited June 22, 2016 by C6_Hellfrog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PitbullVicious Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Question about the cyclic stick functionality between L and M models: From this thread: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=166310 I've understood that the trigger in M model is used for radio, as in Huey, but in the L model it is used to fire weapons. If this is true how is the radio operated in the L model (in the real Gazelle)? Would it be possible to implement separate bindings for L model and M model in the future, so that us who want to emulate the buttons as close to the real thing as possible with our HOTAS (I think it's not possible to bind the trigger for two different functionality at the moment.. I'm thinking about adding this to the enhancement thread, if my current understanding proves to be correct :) )? i9-9900K @ 5.1GHz | MSI Ventus 3X OC RTX3090 24GB | 64GB 3200MHz DDR4 | Asus ROG Strix Z390-E | Asus Xonar DGX 5.1 Sound Card | Virpil T50CM2 base w/ F/A-18C / A-10C / Virpil T50CM2 Grip | WinWing Super Taurus Throttle | MFG pedals | TekCreations Hornet UFC, Landing Panel, Right Console | WinWing Hornet Combat Ready Panel | Buddy Fox UFC | Foxx Mount | 3 x TM Cougar MFD | HP Reverb G2 | Wacom Intuos S (with VRK) | Honeycomb Alpha Yoke | Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS | CH Fighter Stick Pro & Throttle | MS Sidewinder 2 FFB | Track IR 5 | Oculus Rift CV1 善く戦う者は、まず勝つべからざるを為して、以て敵の勝つべきを待つ。 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sublime Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 How are snipers goijng to be implemented? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscav19d Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Hope so... Can't imagine this is realistic given the sudden change in force balance and the compensating - rather than anticipating - nature of a gyro. Let me see what happens without the gyro/AP system turned on So I tried that... Looks like it has nothing to do with the SAS/AP system... Reaction to torque changes during forward flight is almost absent... should it be like this? Past a certain airspeed the vertical stabilizer will completely offset the torque effect of the main rotor. This effect starts as the helicopter passes through ETL and each aircraft has their own airspeed ad which the torque is totally offset. I do not know what speed that is in a Gazelle... Small changes in torque under that speed should require pedal input, but the SAS is probably compensating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team SL PAK Posted August 13, 2016 ED Team Share Posted August 13, 2016 Q: Will we have Force Feedback? A: Force Feedback has not been fully implemented yet You'll do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mt5_Roie Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 We have two Microsoft sidewinders, but are having issues getting them to work in Windows 8. As soon as we can resolve this we'll start working on the FFB. You'll do it? Coder - Oculus Rift Guy - Court Jester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagrum Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 We have two Microsoft sidewinders, but are having issues getting them to work in Windows 8. As soon as we can resolve this we'll start working on the FFB. The old model, with that sub-d "midi port" type connector? You need a special adapter for those to work, afaik. And a simple "midi to usb" adapter will not work. Probably easier to aquire a genuine usb port model ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home Fries Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 AFAIK, the gameport to USB adapter won't work with the SWFFB1 because despite using gameport it's still a digital controller and the adapters only work with analog controllers. But I definitely concur that a SWFFB2 should be the desired course of action. No Sidewinder software, but the stick works (at least in W7x64) well with generic drivers. -Home Fries My DCS Files and Skins My DCS TARGET Profile for Cougar or Warthog and MFDs F-14B LANTIRN Guide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffdude Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 AFAIK, the gameport to USB adapter won't work with the SWFFB1 because despite using gameport it's still a digital controller and the adapters only work with analog controllers. But I definitely concur that a SWFFB2 should be the desired course of action. No Sidewinder software, but the stick works (at least in W7x64) well with generic drivers. This whole thing highlights the problem I was trying to elude to previously. No one can get a hold of this hardware, it's not produced anymore. It seems unfair to ask for support for hardware that isn't available :doh:. I have no idea why such a cool feature isn't a staple in the modern HOTAS. I wish I could get a hold of a new joystick to enjoy FFB, but currently I don't see anything on the horizon that will do that. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penshoon Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 This whole thing highlights the problem I was trying to elude to previously. No one can get a hold of this hardware, it's not produced anymore. It seems unfair to ask for support for hardware that isn't available :doh:. I have no idea why such a cool feature isn't a staple in the modern HOTAS. I wish I could get a hold of a new joystick to enjoy FFB, but currently I don't see anything on the horizon that will do that. Patent issue I believe, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_v._Sony Otter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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