ED Team NineLine Posted October 27, 2020 ED Team Share Posted October 27, 2020 Sorry guys, I have been hammering the team on other things, I will get back to this soon. 1 Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squiffy Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 Thanks NineLine. A tip for practicing... edit the Mig-15bis.lua as well and change the max g limit to about 4 to 6 g's and limit the max bank angle to 70-80.' This will curb their aerobatic ability and make it a bit more realistic for a non g suit aircraft with non flying tail and thick wings. They still climb like Sputnik but if you yo yo out or hammerhead in the vertical and keep your nose below his, you can follow them through the vertical and close in a dive. Let them go higher and keep your speed usable. Wait for them to come back down. 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] It's perfectly ordinary banter Squiffy, "Bally Jerry, pranged his kite, right in the 'how's your father.'" - Monty Python, RAF Banter Sketch. Squiffy, a. slang. 1. Intoxicated; drunk. 2. Askew, skew-whiff. - OED "Put that sucker in a 4G turn and keep it there!!" - Maj. Gen. "Boots" Blesse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildwind Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 If you play single player, then for now you can change .lua files according to my post #163: https://forums.eagle.ru/forum/englis...65#post6290565 Also you may reduce gun overheating dispersion to minimum or even 0 and increase round count to 300. It's described in some previous posts. But better backup original files as you won't be able to join multiplayer. Also DSC World updates may overwrite your changes. Thanks for this info. I'm not good enough for multiplayer yet (I am quite certain real players will thoroughly trounce me until I have a lot more practice flying), so I will probably do this so I can effectively play the single-player campaigns for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baylor703 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Any updates on this, by chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lipas70 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 Is something going on in the topic? W10 64bit, i9 9900K, 64GB RAM, GTX 1070Ti, 27" FullHD monitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawk2174 Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Yeah I mean this is just changing some values in a few lua files. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzles Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 Yeah, you'd hope they'd have gotten around to it by now, considering it's a couple of minutes of work to make the change and check it in to source control, easy bug to knock off the list and helpful one too. 2 1 Fancy trying Star Citizen? Click here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lipas70 Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 It's really hard to understand ED's resistance to removing (correcting) such a simple thing. Over the years, nothing has changed in their approach to the matter. 1 W10 64bit, i9 9900K, 64GB RAM, GTX 1070Ti, 27" FullHD monitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JokerMan Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 (edited) On 10/27/2020 at 7:16 PM, NineLine said: Sorry guys, I have been hammering the team on other things, I will get back to this soon. Thank you Nineline for pushing on this topic. I hope it is still alive. S! No.54 Joker from Repeating and Multi-Fire Weapons: By Gerald Prenderghast from TigerCheck: b ySteven A Fino Edited February 15, 2021 by JokerMan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoW Reddog Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 On 10/27/2020 at 6:16 PM, NineLine said: Sorry guys, I have been hammering the team on other things, I will get back to this soon. @NineLine I don't know what your version of "soon" is, but it's been quite a while... I don't think we've seen ONE person say on this thread that this change is OP, or ahistorical, or incorrect, and given it's a simple lua change, can ED just pull their finger out and make it while I'm still alive so I can use the product I've paid good money for correctly? This complete lack of support and explanation is exactly the reason why I will not pay another penny to ED regardless of whatever modules they deign to make. I've spent over 200 quid on this module alone, purchasing several copies for squadron mates. Its frustrating to say the least. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawk2174 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 Yeah this isn't hard fix would probably take all of 3 minutes to fix and check. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strong05 Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Would also really like to see this addressed. 2 5800X3d, 32GB DDR4@3400, 6800 xt, Reverb G2, Gunfighter/TMWH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schmidtfire Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 +1 NineLine's last response is from October last year... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzles Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 (edited) @NineLine / @BIGNEWY Any hope the muzzle velocity is tweaked for the big 2.7 patch? It's been 5 years now that bullets have been falling short of the pipper due to previous changes, resulting in aiming being semi-broken. Edited April 12, 2021 by Buzzles @'d another person 6 Fancy trying Star Citizen? Click here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unltd Posted April 10, 2021 Author Share Posted April 10, 2021 Really ED? So disappointing that such an easy and important change has never been done. WTF??? I'd guess most buyers like me of this module gave up flying it so long ago that they've all forgotten why they stopped flying the module. 4 Ryzen 5950x PBO | MSI RTX 3090 | 32gb 3600 RAM | 2 x SSD | Quest 3 | TM Warthog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiG21bisFishbedL Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 (edited) On 4/10/2021 at 10:24 AM, unltd said: Really ED? So disappointing that such an easy and important change has never been done. WTF??? I'd guess most buyers like me of this module gave up flying it so long ago that they've all forgotten why they stopped flying the module. Oof. You're honestly right, I'd imagine. I have to say, ED, this is utterly unacceptable. A simple .LUA fix after this much evidence has been presented? It's incredibly frustrating to see goalposts constantly move and, even when met, to have them ignored. For half a decade. I'll have to caution myself the next time I buy anything that's first party ED if this is going to be a result. Edited April 12, 2021 by MiG21bisFishbedL 2 1 Reformers hate him! This one weird trick found by a bush pilot will make gunfighter obsessed old farts angry at your multi-role carrier deck line up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucano_uy Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 There’s clearly, for whatever reason, no willingness to fix this issue. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JokerMan Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 (edited) On 4/15/2021 at 7:13 AM, Tucano_uy said: There’s clearly, for whatever reason, no willingness to fix this issue. The module was* Belsimtek (now part of ED) and as ED are the platform as well, hopefully 'no willingness' is not the case (though it's a tough counter to make Tucano, I agree). NineLine has engaged with this topic above; it's just that the wheels are turning painfully slowly. The whole topic is unnecessary and it's doing no one any good. DCS2.7 has dropped (to acclaim, kudos ED) and once past the immediate bugs fix and patch cycle(s) that are inevitable, hopefully this will free up the short amount of time necessary to address this Sabre gun issue finally. As a community (on this thread in particular), we have put our best feet forward in the main, with research, testing our ideas and verifying a proposed solution. We have effectively communicated it in a mature and serious way. What boils down to little more than a tweak to an LUA line of code ........ DCS 2.7 has one solitoary update for the Sabre and it is a tweak, (likely of similar magnitude to that needed to address this Sabre guns issue). I read the changelog (linked) and ... heart sunk https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/changelog/openbeta/2.7.0.4625/ Here's hoping that DCS2.7's release frees up the time needed on ED's side. *EDIT: Update based on Buzzles correction below. S! Edited April 27, 2021 by JokerMan *EDIT: Update based on Buzzles correction below. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzles Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, JokerMan said: The module is Belsimtek, ED are the platform and well, hopefully 'no willingness' is not the case (though it's a tough counter to make Tucano, I agree). H The module WAS Belsimtek, they were absorbed back into ED the other year. It's definitely now an ED module. Edited April 15, 2021 by Buzzles Fancy trying Star Citizen? Click here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JokerMan Posted April 27, 2021 Share Posted April 27, 2021 On 4/15/2021 at 6:43 PM, Buzzles said: The module WAS Belsimtek, they were absorbed back into ED the other year. It's definitely now an ED module. Thanks for the correction, it's important. S! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAIPAN_ Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 On 10/28/2020 at 5:16 AM, NineLine said: Sorry guys, I have been hammering the team on other things, I will get back to this soon. Hi mate, Any update on this? All the modern stuff and WW2 has had so much love, we want our early jets to be next... please tell us some F-86 improvements soon? Pimax Crystal VR & Simpit User | Ryzen CPU & Nvidia RTX GPU | Some of my mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lipas70 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 Hi. Is there something new or is the topic dead? 1 W10 64bit, i9 9900K, 64GB RAM, GTX 1070Ti, 27" FullHD monitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curly Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 The drag on the bullets the Sabre uses are to high. The F-86 uses the bullets as defined in the lua files as. shells = {"M2_50_aero_AP","M20_50_aero_APIT"}, mixes = {{1,2,2,1,2,2}}, -- In the shell table the drag currently is defined as M20_50_aero_APIT.lua cx = { 0.5, 0.61, 0.8, 0.27, 2 }, M2_50_aero_AP.lua cx = { 0.5, 0.61, 0.8, 0.27, 2 } The variables are defined as. -- Drag (Сx) = { 0.5 , -- Cx_k0 Cd0 at low mach ( M << 1) 0.61 , -- Cx_k1 Peak Cd0 value 0.8 , -- Cx_k2 steepness of the drag curve before the transonic wave crisis 0.27, -- Cx_k3 Cd0 at high mach (M>>1) 2 , -- Cx_k4 steepness of the drag curve after the transonic wave crisis } Drag profiles for all the rounds are available from primary sources. Primarily, the US Ballistic Research Lab. The first two drag profiles are from the Ballistic Research Lab's 1990 range test. "The Aerodynamic Characteristics of .50 Ball, M33, API, M8, and APIT, M20 Ammunition. By Robert McCoy. https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a219106.pdf Lets start with the API M8 Then The M20. Finally We have a drag profile for the M2 AP round. This chart is in older format Kd. However this can be converted to the standard notation for the Drag Coefficient Cd / Cx. The conversion is Cd = (8/Pi) * Kd The method is given in McCoy's work. The drag profile is from Report 620, Aerodynamic Data for Spinning Projectiles” H.P. Hitchcock Ballistic Research Laboratories, Aberdeen Maryland 1947. https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/AD0800469.pdf From the chart, peak drag occurs at Mach 1.2 and the Kd is ~ .161 Converting using McCoy Cd = (8/Pi) * .161 Cd = .4099 At mach 2 the Kd is = .14, therefore the Cd = .35 The slope of drag curve at Mach > 1 is = .4 - .35 / .8 = .05 The drag at low Mach is ~.078 Kd = .1985 Cd The slope of the drag profile before area transonic appears flat. Therefore the drag for the rounds should look more like, M2_50_aero_AP.lua cx = { 0.198 0.4, 0.0, 0.4, .05 } 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawk2174 Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Maybe @BIGNEWYcould see if this could get looked at again? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curly Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 (edited) The correct Muzzle Velocity for the M2 AP should be 2,840 FPS, 865 MPS. The reduction in accuracy and velocity due to barrel heating should be reduced to reflect the qualities described in weapons manuals. Possibly replaced with either a cook off event or a jam. With regards to the correct muzzle velocity for these rounds. The manual for the AN-M2 and AN-M3 both give the same muzzle velocity for the various rounds. From the 1947 version of the AN-M2 manual, TM9-225 1947. http://www.nj7p.org/Manuals/PDFs/Military/TM 9-225 28-Jan-47 Google.pdf The AN-M3’s ammo table and muzzle velocity from the 1955 version of the AN-M3 manual, TM 9-2190 Both manuals also refer to the same document, which provides the ballistic profile of the ammunition. Ballistic Data Performance of Ammunition TM-9-1907 https://ia800909.us.archive.org/22/items/TM91907BalisticDataPreformaceOfAmmunition/TM%209-1907%20Balistic%20Data%20Preformace%20of%20Ammunition.pdf A cleaner version of this chart is available in https://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p4013coll8/id/2374 TM 9-1907 also gives the muzzle velocity as 2,835 FPS. So this appears to be the correct muzzle velocity for M2 AP round. However, in some of the literature, the muzzle velocity is quoted as 2700 fps. This lower velocity 2700 fps comes from 1940 version of the AN-M2 manual -TM 9-225 https://ia601208.us.archive.org/21/items/TM9-225/TM9-225.pdf It gives the velocity of the M1 AP Round as 2700 fps at 78 feet. Then in 1942, the revised TM 9-225 manual states muzzle velocity for the M2 AP round is 2900 fps. https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc29988/m1/50/ It appears the correct muzzle velocity for the M2 AP rounds is 2840 FPS, As the most current sources list it. On burst length. The manuals for both guns, indicate barrel heat affects 4 aspects of the guns performance, velocity, accuracy, stoppage, and cook off. The 150 round limit cited before, a 11 second burst, is the stoppage limit (the gun locks up) of the AN-M2, due to overheating. There is also a burst limit due to the possibility of a ammunition cook off. That is, the rounds heating up to point where the powder charge ignites and causes inadvertent firing. For the AN/M3 the 200 rounds burst limit is due to the possibility of a cook off, not a reduction in accuracy or velocity. The reduction in accuracy or velocity due to barrel heat occurs at different temperatures. The accuracy reduction is referred to as Key-holing in the manual. The AN/M2 manual notes, the circumstance in which the accuracy is degraded separately from the conditions that result in a reduction of the bullet’s velocity. The conditions depend on the barrel type and the number of rounds fired.. The 50 Cal AN/M3 has a plated and lined barrel and the ammo is more likely to cook off, before the velocity and accuracy are reduced. As the cook off limit is 200 rounds and the accuracy degradation occurs at 300 rounds. The maximum burst length before there is a reduction accuracy, is 300 rounds. This should happen without a reduction in velocity. The AN/M3 manual also notes that the operating parameters described are for temperate conditions at low altitude. So perhaps the increase in barrel temp can be reduced to reflect operation at high altitude. Edited July 21, 2021 by Curly clairty 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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