Ground Attack Tipps?

[MAD-MM]

Today some test flying against armed enemy's, when you pop up behind your cover at daylight conditions the tanks immediately spot you in range of your HOT Missile and throw all laser guided missiles at once at your position

 

This was before not really problem with KA-50 the missile range was twice as big. The AI is most cases rely on what ED is programming but how can you avoid to get spotted? Did the AI make difference between night and day and spot detection?

[WinterH]

If possible, hide behind a terrain feature and only show your Viviane behind it. If not possible (as in one of the missions I made for myself without knowing the village I put the enemies were right on the summit of a mountain :D), then well... ATGMs fired at helo can usually be evaded fairly easily with some maneuvering IF you know you've been shot at, so if there around too many missile shooters, you can engange at maximum range without hiding, but still risky. Older missiles like Malyutka leave a big puffy white smoke trail, but newer ones on most tanks and BMP-2 and BMP-3s won't do that, so you'll need to see from viviane screen if you've been launched at or not.

 

I haven't yet improved myself a lot, one sortie, I get insta killed by an anti tank missile, another go at same mission, I kill 4 without a scratch... not much consistency on my part yet :D.

[MAD-MM]

Thx Winter was hanging around the buildings only Viviane looked out you can throw the missiles over the building when the gazelle is hang in his rotor, but usual the civilians in front of building have a bad day by anti tank missiles, assume there is no different way to kill unspotted my enemy.

[tob.s]

i use a secound joystick / gamepad to guide the tows while flying with the other hand - still risky as u could get in aaa range but better than hovering

[Furious]

We tried the same mission in day/night, and it seems the AI is much worse at night. We managed to get much closer before being spotted.

[Flagrum]

If you have terrain behind you (hills) instead of open sky, the enemy should also have a more difficult time to spot you.

 

(note: haven't tested this myself, but some LUAs suggest this)

[scharrk]

The AI is looking through everything, hills, buildings, mountains....and that just sucks.

[Fri13]

The AI is looking through everything, hills, buildings, mountains....and that just sucks.

 

Just wait that we get the hoped change, where AI gets LOS checks and then actual FOV that is required to be checked is the AI looking at the correct direction or not.

 

Gazelle is like a UH-1H or Mi-8MTv2, requiring a AI to be worked on in future.

Only KA-50 can currently really engage the targets with Vikhr + 2A42 as you get to be on those 7.5-8.5km or 3.5-4km distances. But it gets so boring to always to try to find the maximum firing range of the unit where you can stay outside, instead to actually get to "knife fight" if situation calls by doing pop-ups, slides and overpasses.

 

Like what are we going to do when Gazelle gets the cannon version in future? 20mm cannon hardly does much at long ranges like 30mm does, especially if we can't have missiles same time!

[Deezle]

The AI is looking through everything, hills, buildings, mountains....and that just sucks.

While the AI is superhuman at detecting you, I don't see them looking through buildings and mountains. I can pop up and they will start aiming at me, if I drop back down they will turn away.

[MAD-MM]

Hope there is some improvement also in the Future for AI, BO-105 have only a Range of 4 Km with HOT 2 would be then uncomfortable near to the enemy

[grunf]

The AI is looking through everything, hills, buildings, mountains....and that just sucks.

Maybe not.

 

You can see that the tank (AI) detects Gazelle (me) as she comes out of the cover, and loses track once she gets into the cover. The Gazelle returns in the oposite direction, undetected, until she comes out of the cover again.

 

[WinterH]

I think something may have changed with latest patch. I don't get APC / IFV sniped at many kilometers of distance anymore. Infact, they may not even attack before being attacked sometimes.

[scharrk]

Okay maybe they can't look through, but as soon as you pop up 1mm out of cover they will shoot at you and that makes a good work with the Gazelle inpossible. I am tank driver in the military and i promise you, you never will spot a helicopter through a tank optic (specialy such an old like the most russian units have)

Hope they will fix this KI soon, because the bird makes a loot of fun.

[King_Hrothgar]

The AI cheats an awful lot but the AI does have limitations too. For example, tanks and IFV's won't shoot their ATGM's at you if you fly more than 100km/h. So rather than hovering, try flying it like a fixed wing attack aircraft and turning away before you get into MG range. I typically fly at around 120-140km/h when attacking. Gives plenty of time for 1 or 2 missile attacks before getting too close. Obviously this doesn't work against anything more dangerous than a manpad. Proper SAMs are a no go for this bird.

[MAD-MM]

The AI cheats an awful lot but the AI does have limitations too. For example, tanks and IFV's won't shoot their ATGM's at you if you fly more than 100km/h. So rather than hovering, try flying it like a fixed wing attack aircraft and turning away before you get into MG range. I typically fly at around 120-140km/h when attacking. Gives plenty of time for 1 or 2 missile attacks before getting too close. Obviously this doesn't work against anything more dangerous than a manpad. Proper SAMs are a no go for this bird.

 

But when you counter normal battlefield you have also the thread of AAA emplacments with much future range, flying in straight with no cover usuall not the best with wired missiles.

Hopefully there incoming improvments, was yesterday hovering between houses and lot of tree's and higher ground, from point of view i checked it you didnt see the gazelle from the point where the tanks are parking, they immiditly open fire on me at range of 4 km and hit the houses in front of me. I know there is no collition model for the trees and no blocked view, but thats annoying you can hover only behind solid stuff in range of the Laser guided tank missiles.

[MAD-MM]

The AI cheats an awful lot but the AI does have limitations too. For example, tanks and IFV's won't shoot their ATGM's at you if you fly more than 100km/h. So rather than hovering, try flying it like a fixed wing attack aircraft and turning away before you get into MG range. I typically fly at around 120-140km/h when attacking. Gives plenty of time for 1 or 2 missile attacks before getting too close. Obviously this doesn't work against anything more dangerous than a manpad. Proper SAMs are a no go for this bird.

 

But when you counter normal battlefield you have also the thread of AAA emplacments with much future range, flying in straight with no cover usuall not the best with wired missiles.

Hopefully there incoming improvments, was yesterday hovering between houses and lot of tree's and higher ground, from point of view i checked it you didnt see the gazelle from the point where the tanks are parking, they immediately open fire on me at range of 4 km and hit the houses in front of me. I know there is no collition model for the trees and no blocked view, but thats annoying you can hover only behind solid stuff in range of the Laser guided tank missiles.

[King_Hrothgar]

I'm only aware of 2 AI land units that will fire a gun at players from more than 2.5km, those are the BMP-3 (about 8km range) and some German flak tank, Roland I think it is. Even the Shilka will not fire until within 2.5km. That just leaves SAMs to deal with. MANPADs aren't a major concern as they are easily spoofed and also won't fire until very close typically. More substantial SAMs require a more potent aircraft as SEAD really isn't something it's any good at.

 

I should point out that hitting targets using my method isn't easy, but it is doable. I typically land 3 of 4 shots against stationary targets. Against rapidly moving targets, it drops to somewhere between 1 and 2 hits per 4 missiles.

[MBot]

On thing to remember is that ground AI in DCS is insta-aware of any enemy unit within range and line of sight (LOS is affected by terrain, buldings but not vegetation). There is no such thing as surprise or trying to minimize detection. You either are not in LOS or you are, then detection is instant. To engage, each type of ground unit has a built in reaction time (with a little random variance).

 

Reaction times in DCS for units equipped with radar are fairly realistic. For modern air defence units such as Tor (SA-15) and Tunguska this are just a couple of seconds, for a Shilka it is about 20 seconds, for Osa (SA-8 ) about 30 seconds, for Kub (SA-6) about a minute. For mission designers, Shilka and SA-8 are excellent gameplay choices, since they will allow Gazelle players a quick pop-up missile attack before they react (also they are realistic adversaries to accompany mechanized troops).

 

Reaction times against aircraft for units depending on visual target acquision (this includes tanks, APCs, AAA, IR SAMs and MANPADS etc.) are in the range of a couple seconds and are extremely unrealistic.

[JABO2009]

On thing to remember is that ground AI in DCS is insta-aware of any enemy unit within range and line of sight (LOS is affected by terrain, buldings but not vegetation). There is no such thing as surprise or trying to minimize detection. You either are not in LOS or you are, then detection is instant. To engage, each type of ground unit has a built in reaction time (with a little random variance).

 

Reaction times in DCS for units equipped with radar are fairly realistic. For modern air defence units such as Tor (SA-15) and Tunguska this are just a couple of seconds, for a Shilka it is about 20 seconds, for Osa (SA-8 ) about 30 seconds, for Kub (SA-6) about a minute. For mission designers, Shilka and SA-8 are excellent gameplay choices, since they will allow Gazelle players a quick pop-up missile attack before they react (also they are realistic adversaries to accompany mechanized troops).

 

Reaction times against aircraft for units depending on visual target acquision (this includes tanks, APCs, AAA, IR SAMs and MANPADS etc.) are in the range of a couple seconds and are extremely unrealistic.

 

 

+1

[msalama]

and that just sucks.

 

The AI doesn't see through solid objects.