What Target Drones Does the US/Ex Soviets Use?

[Ukr_Alex]

I was just reading about the Mig-29 and there was a picture with a Luftwaffe 29 lauching an AA-10 at some target drone.

 

 

Anyone have any ideas what the air forces around the world use these days? And how these machines work exactly?

[hitman]

The USAF is currently (or will soon be) using old F-4 Phantom airframes for target practice, and IIRC they are still using old F-104 Starfighter frames as well.

[Pilotasso]

Its a sacrilege to sacrifice museum pieces like that. Soon their unit price will explode and anyone who hapens to have an example hidden in the scrap yard 20 years from now could become millionaire. Think about this. ;)

[hitman]

I dont think the US will shoot down all of the F-4s, since theres more than 5000 made worldwide. Still hopefully the US govt. will put some F-4's on the auction block and sell a few of these to private collectors.

[Pilotasso]

I dont think the US will shoot down all of the F-4s, since theres more than 5000 made worldwide. Still hopefully the US govt. will put some F-4's on the auction block and sell a few of these to private collectors.

 

5000 were to total ever made. The actual number in service at a time never reached those numbers, and today are much less, probably a few hundreds only.

[hitman]

Quite a few thousand are in flyable storage at Davis-Monthan. Germany still employs the RF-4, as well as a dozen or so more countries. Best guess is that over half of them are gone.

[Cobra360]

They have been using QF-4 drones for a few years now. The last QF-106 was downed in 1999, ever since its been on to QF-4s.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9ExC96WOqU&mode=related&search=

 

AIM-9X test video.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms01tITXz3k&mode=related&search=

[Guest IguanaKing]

Has anybody heard of QF-105s being used? I'd swear I saw one in one of F15Docs videos...getting smoked.

[weasel75]

AIM-9X test video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms01tITXz3k&mode=related&search=

 

Thanks for the links :)

The 1st one had really "okay" quality and showed some nice action.

2nd link was (unfortunately) blury and often the cam didnt caught the action or lost the Sidewinder :(

 

However - Aim 9X is a really fearsome weapon. Same applies for the little russian IR-seekers we all know from the Mig-29.

 

Guess that marks the beginning of the end of the "classic" dogfight. It had its time (nearly 100 years - from WW1 to early 21st century) - but equipped with such weapons the pilot never needs to point the nose of the aircraft at the enemy......

 

Next step: pilots will be redundant.

.... So in some years we all will play simulations of the "good old times" - looking back at the times when humans fought the airwars ;)

[Ukr_Alex]

So how do they exactly work?

 

They just have a remote control system?

[SuperKungFu]

yea but kinda a waste sometimes. They pick a decent F-4 from the graveyard, probably AMARC. Spend months rebuilding it to flying status again, once they ensure it can fly, they add the remote control system which also takes a while. So months of building and it dies in a great ball of fire within a few seconds. Not to mention millions of dollars goes into that. But i guess in their view its worth it since they test out their brand-new missile or the pilot get experience.

[nscode]

No... they teach horses how to fly. They are realy good in dog fights... they just stamp on the dog :D

 

 

It's still cheaper to resurect an old F-4 than to develop a dedicated drone

[Pilotasso]

Thanks for the links :)

The 1st one had really "okay" quality and showed some nice action.

2nd link was (unfortunately) blury and often the cam didnt caught the action or lost the Sidewinder :(

 

However - Aim 9X is a really fearsome weapon. Same applies for the little russian IR-seekers we all know from the Mig-29.

 

Guess that marks the beginning of the end of the "classic" dogfight. It had its time (nearly 100 years - from WW1 to early 21st century) - but equipped with such weapons the pilot never needs to point the nose of the aircraft at the enemy......

 

Next step: pilots will be redundant.

.... So in some years we all will play simulations of the "good old times" - looking back at the times when humans fought the airwars ;)

 

No I dont think the dogfight is dead. Stealth technology will reduce the range at wich weapons will be fired. Infact we might see a regression to vietnam era combat were radar missiles were forced to be shot under 20 miles and lots of manuevering to be required.

[Force_Feedback]

Ex soviet countries use (Okay, I don't know if they do, but Ukraine does) the Mig-21MF converted to drone as a 'high value' target, on big exercises. And they use the Tu-something drone on less special occasions. And if they just need to do some live firings just to keep the personnel active, they use parachute flares/radar emitters specially designed for that purpose, and which can go as high as 25km.

Also, written off SAM missiles are used as target drones. For example. they use the Buk-(M) missile as low level target drone, sometimes even to test fire Bum-M1 missiles :P. The famous S-300PMU1 test video, in which 4 missiles are launched straight away, into the stratosphere so to speak, and come falling down almost vertically on the target (and hit it 4 times!), while the Buk missile is flying at 10m altitude. It makes you think how it would look if those 4 S-300 missiles had a real warhead, and what would happen to that Tornado trying to do a low level incursion...

Any nobody looks UP to see if a missile is coming ;)

[bflagg]

The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."

 

Reminds me of my little quote I used to say:

You know how they get those horses to buck for those cowboy rodeos?

Tie a piece of rope to the horses balls....

 

The crazy thing is this.......

Some moron, centuries ago.. without teeth... said to himself...

I wonder what will happen if I tie rope here and tighten it down hard...?

[Force_Feedback]

Now imagine...some moron..centuries ago.. without teeth... said to himself...

I wonder what will happen if I tie rope here and tighten it down hard...?

 

That is soo me :D :megalol:

[hitman]

Yeah that is pretty stupid...lets grab this thing by the nads (this 1800 lb animal with powerful legs...) and tie it up with a piece of rope and yank on them. That reminds me of someone I once knew (yes once knew) as he was a little bit slow up stairs...before he inserted a broom up the rear end of a shetland...and had his brain spin around literally backwards in his head. Ol' Peter wasnt the same since. Wasnt all that fast before, but now hes slower AND nuts.

[Maverick-90]

Germany still employs the RF-4, as well as a dozen or so more countries.

nope all RF-4E were sold to turkey

the only left recon Wing is the Aufklärungsgeschwader 52 (Reconnaissance Wing 52) which flies the Tornado, the last RF-4E were sold a few years ago ;)

[Cobra360]

The last F-4F flew a display last year with the pilot over stressing the airframe "as it only had 20 hours left on it!" as the WSO latter commented on the display.

 

And not all QF-4s are destroyed when used for target practice, it's not uncommon for them to survive and live to fight another day. I have seen at least one QF-4 on the ground after a mission damaged my a missile near miss.

[weasel75]

No I dont think the dogfight is dead. Stealth technology will reduce the range at wich weapons will be fired. Infact we might see a regression to vietnam era combat were radar missiles were forced to be shot under 20 miles and lots of manuevering to be required.

 

ROE often enforces those situations (since Vietnam) - pilots need to VID any contacts - and so there is no BVR.

However, with next-generation A2A-missiles (all-aspect) - after ID, the pilot/computer just needs to look at the target (no need to turn), assign target to missile, trigger missile - and watch the fire-ball going down.

 

And true - its about stealth... and also about electronic (automated) countermeasures, radar-jamming, radar burn-through, hacking/jamming of communications or D-Links, etc. ... and less and less about the "dogfight"-strengths of a pilot.

A different set of pilots is needed for that - more tech-skills, more management-skills.

 

Maybe the term "dogfight" changes to reflect that, but what I meant is that the "good 'ole" Get-On-His-Six-game will be outdated soon. (And I dont care much as long as there is a flight-simulator providing that :D )

[hitman]

and watch the fire-ball going down.

 

Nowadays this would be bad for your health.

[Ukr_Alex]

Lovely, so will LOMAC pilots qualify to "remote control" the drones?:P

 

Ill do it free of charge:smilewink:

[Guest IguanaKing]

Strangely enough, NASA is hiring UAV pilots for a pretty good salary.

 

http://jobsearch.usajobs.opm.gov/jobsearch.asp?q=UAV&salmin=&salmax=&paygrademin=&paygrademax=&FedEmp=N&tm=&sort=rv&vw=d&brd=3876&ss=0&FedPub=Y&SUBMIT1.x=0&SUBMIT1.y=0

[Ukr_Alex]

I was thinking about this for a while now.

 

Some of us with the right connections might have a job in the field. Afterall it cant be that much different from someone who can handel lets say Falcon as far as avionics go and the Su-25T as far as flight models go ;)

[STAR_80]

History Channel has a very nice show in rotation about bone yards. It goes from using the World Trade Center scrap being used on the USS New York http://www.hoax-slayer.com/uss-new-york-wtc.html to ending with the whole process of preparing the F-4 for Q duties and A-10 revamps.

 

http://store.aetv.com/html/product/index.jhtml?id=73830