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Vive or CV1 - Decision time after using both


hansangb

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So as some of you may know, I purchased both the Vive and CV1 to see which would be better for me IN DCS. While I'm interested in other games, the primary use is for DCS.

 

To put the bottom line up front, I'm going with CV1. Here's why.

 

SETUP

Rift is better.

 

  • It's mostly because you don't have to mount two sensors.
  • And because cable to the HMD is so much thicker/stiff than Rift.
  • It's not as comfortable to move around. Naturally, the cable for the Vive is longer, but the added weight of the cable is *not* the problem. It's the stiffness of the cable that's the problem.
  • IPD setup goes to Rift. Vive tells you to go find the IPD on your own and move the knob to the correct value. Rift lets you home in on the clearest setting.
  • I love the idea of using a HDMI/USB box that Vive has. It's much easier to remove the HMD for quick test, moving etc. You don't have to go reaching into the back of the computer to unplug the HDMI/USB cables.
  • I think Vive loses because the setup seems a bit more clumsy. Not surprising since this is third try for Oculus.

 

 

Controller

Vive is much better.

 

  • Rift only gives you an Xbox One controller and and a BT pointer.
  • Vive's controller and tracking is AWESOME! With the one sensor, I'm not sure how Oculus can beat Vive here.
  • In the game, Vive's controller shows up as a giant hand (in 1.5). Could there be potential for in game clicking? I believe so. But the hand needs to be smaller. But there's no issue moving the controller accurately. But to be clear, it does not work currently.

 

 

HMD

 

Rift design wins, no question about it.

 

 

  • Rift's audio is quite nice. The headphones fit comfortably on your ears. Mark my words, as developers get used to 3D Audio, it will make a difference.
  • It's easier to put on due to the spring extension on the straps. Just pull the HMD to extend the straps and you take it off w/o fighting the strap tension.
  • In Vive, you set it up (sort of tight) and that's what you stick with. So it's a bit of a hassle to put it on on off. Not a deal breaker, but just a bit annoying.
  • SDE: About the same, I think. If you go looking for it, you'll find it in both.
  • Brightness? I couldn't tell. If you do a double blind test, I think it'll be 50/50.
  • Didn't see any god rays so I can't confirm or deny it.
  • The front facing camera. I had so much hope for this. Not the Predator/Tron like projection, but the camera itself. You can use it with a pit or switch boxes just fine. I could easily move my mouse, pick up things etc. But I had a hard time trying to hit the right OSB on the MFD. *AND* it doesn't work in the game. When you're flying, you can't turn on the camera. UGH! I had such high hopes for using this.

 

 

 

 

 

Comfort:

Rift is better

 

  • It's smaller, and the strap system is much better. More comfortable.
  • Cable is much much easier to manage.
  • In the Vive, I felt like I was fighting the cable. I had to stick it on the back of the chair to reduce the "pulling"

 

 

DCS Performance

Rift hands down. Not even close, IMHO.

 

 

 

  • In the latest 1.5, A10 Instant mission (the first easy one), I was able to maintain 90FPS in HIGH setting (but with flat shadows, no Brokeh/HDR, and 4X AA). But when I got down and low into the buildings, it dropped to 50-90. ATW seems to make it MUCH MUCH smoother experience than Vive.
  • For me, the smoothness of Rift tipped it by a mile for Rift.
  • Clarity is about the same, but Rift is clearer for reading the gauges. It's not night or day, but it is better.
  • However, I noticed that if I push the Vive into my face, the clarity was much better. I guess this is why some owners are cutting off the foam. Since I didn't have that luxury, it wasn't an option for me. I really think Vive missed the mark here. Note I had the Vive in as close as possible already.
  • Again in 1.5, it's BUTTERY smooth for Rift. Not so much for Vive. It's not terrible, but it's not smooth like the Rift. Ultimately, this is what mattered the most for me.

 

 

Just some side notes. A10 is much better with VR than Huey. It's very hard to get Huey to even hit 90FPS.

 

 

 

The mouse pointer in 1.5 is nice! Can't wait to get it in DCS.

 

 

Hope it helps.


Edited by hansangb

hsb

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Very nice write up, focusing on DCS alone. Guess I will get a Rift when the time comes! Thank you!

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Fixed.


Edited by hansangb

hsb

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Good comparison, thanks. I think its worth to mention the pricing too. It makes a lot of difference. From our angle buying HMD with motion controls make no sense as Hotas is all you need atm or at least until good hand tracking become available.

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cheap charlie,

I don't have a reclined seat, but I can recline my chair pretty far. I'll give it a shot and report back.

 

 

VR-Hunter,

I'm aware of the debug tool (coming to DCS via native controls) and will give it a shot later today. I'll report back.

 

wasyl00,

You're right about the price. I didn't mention it because I figured most who buy this stuff is not as price sensitive. And it's apples to orange comparison. Rift doesn't ship with controllers, so by the time you order them, it's probably a wash. Well, if you buy them. So I guess from that standpoint it's a fair comparison.

 

I will state again that Vive controller tracking opens up a lot of innovation possibilities because it's so precise. We're just not there yet to take advantage of it. It may be that by the time V2 comes around, I may switch back to Vive. Good problems to have, no doubt.

hsb

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Thanks hangsangb, I was wondering which one would be the better choice so that's really helpful. What do you think of the VR experience as a whole in DCS? It sounds like the ultimate in immersion, but I've not actually tried it.

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This made my mind up for me. I've been waiting for just such a comparison post.

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Was about to say... Selling the Vive? I'll take it.

I know how to get it so the weight is equal if need be.

Easy way to do so would be a cheap open helmet and add weight to balance it. Paint Olive drab and stick the HMD to it.

 

Hmm, If you could "strap" the Vive controller to your forearm and make a switch in a glove, you have the hand tracked with the option to click when that becomes available. Or take it out of the packaging and slap the board on the backside of a glove. Ideas ideas.

Anything with a Rotary Wing is fun and challenging.

Use SRS radio.

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Guys, it'll be another week before I can test the resolution, chair leaning etc.. I'll post an update next weekend.

 

14th_JAR,

I honestly think a controller like Vive will work well in DCS. Tracking is way better than leap. So you won't have to fight the controller to try and point at something. It would be very natural thing to do. Pick up the controller and move your hand just like you would in the real world. The Ginormous hand in Vive does give you good feedback. The only problem is that the finger would cover two switches at a time! :)

 

I too like the look or mouse over the controller. But it takes your eyes away from the action too long. IRL, you would glance at it and hit the necessary switches. I do believe it'll be better because the controller works in 3D and you can use your peripheral vision to get it near the switches...then look to hit the one you want.

 

 

spaceraver,

Yes, I am selling it, but international shipping would be expensive. As for strapping it on your forearm, the only problem I see is that the "hand" in VR would be little behind. Unless you mount the controller closer to your fingers. But it's really not a big deal to pick it up and use it. Besides, the virtual hand going all over the place will be distracting as it doesn't map one-on-one on the VR HOTAS. Future working gloves would be better.

hsb

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Good comparison, thanks. I think its worth to mention the pricing too. It makes a lot of difference. From our angle buying HMD with motion controls make no sense as Hotas is all you need atm or at least until good hand tracking become available.

 

 

I thought that too, until I used the Vive controller. It's pretty awesome. I can definitely see a use case for it in flight sim'ing.

hsb

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Thanks hangsangb, I was wondering which one would be the better choice so that's really helpful. What do you think of the VR experience as a whole in DCS? It sounds like the ultimate in immersion, but I've not actually tried it.

 

 

It's hard to explain the immersion because we have been conditioned for so long to using 2D monitors. I know there was a recent post about using 3D monitors in surround, but I'm guessing the vast majority is in 2D world. I found 3D glasses to be quite annoying - but full disclosure, haven't tried it with 120Hz modern monitors. Just high end TVs.

 

I'll give you an example. When you come in low, and you want to drop a bomb, you start climbing as you get closer to the target. But because you want to eyeball the target, you now have a problem. The nose tilting up blocks the target. So one tactic says you invert the plane, then look up and you're now looking at the ground (because you inverted). And you can continue to to fly higher while maintaining visual sight of the target.

 

This is hard to do with TrackIR because your brain knows you're not inverted. It knows that you're not "looking up" It gets confused and there goes your immersion. With VR, you are inverted. You can fly the plane properly. You can maintain visual with the target. And when you flip back over, you still have situational awareness and can drop the bomb.

 

*EVERYTHING* is easier with VR. Well, maybe not targeting since monitors have better resolution. But flying the plane while tracking the SAM is natural. You know where the SAM is, you know where it's coming from, you know the orientation of the aircraft. I now *love* dodging SAMs. It's so much fun looking at the white streak coming at you while you maneuver.

 

Taxing few feet off the runway is easier. Granted, it's easier with Komodo equipment, but visually, you have the necessary feedback on speed and height. It makes all the difference.

 

When you're landing, when your keeping formation, the VR experience makes things much easier.

 

I hope that helps.


Edited by hansangb

hsb

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Thanks for the review I was just abot to canx my Rift as I already have a vive. Guess I will end up with both now. Wife and Family live the vive so no way I can lose the room scale stuff, shame ;)

 

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Thanks for the review I was just abot to canx my Rift as I already have a vive. Guess I will end up with both now. Wife and Family live the vive so no way I can lose the room scale stuff, shame ;)

 

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

 

 

Less competition for the Rift. Also, for room stuff, I can see why you would need two sensors. But for flight sims, it's probably redundant. Unless you're dodging small arms fire in your cockpit and you have to duck down! :D

 

I think over time, Vive will get the necessary driver updates. I just don't know of the ATW like function will be implemented. It makes a big difference.

hsb

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I've found that it's not so much the resolution as the lack of the view zooming feature that makes it harder to see ground objects Vs a monitor.

If we had a keystroke where if you held it you got a locked binocular view until you released it I think that'd make it a lot easier.

 

Mind you with a TGP its irrelevant as I find using the A-10C easy in VR for finding bad guys.

 

There is another VR flight program that allows you to designate a button to activate your binoculars and then it allows you to bind the zoom in and zoom out control onto an analogue axis input or two other buttons. Very, very useful! I'm positive a feature like this would be well appreciated in DCS.

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Thanks for that report. I have a question, can the rift be used in a reclining seat like a lazy boy or do you have to sit upright to use it properly like Track ir?

 

I've never used a track ir but I have a rift and I can tell you that the camera tracks you pretty much up to the point where you're nearly perpendicular with it, it's surprising what kind of angle you can get it to track you at. This means you've got quite a wide and large space to use (effectively as if it's room scale, you could sit 2 meters away if you wanted to). You can sit in a reclining seat no problem, but your head still needs to be looking forwards to look forwards in the game (as in you can't lie on a bed with your head facing upwards and expect to be looking at the HUD in the game, your head orientation is reflected in the game based on the orientation of the headset). Depending where you decide to sit you just need to reset the camera to be centered on your position so you don't end up outside the aircraft for example.

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Very nice post! One quick question:

Can you connect both Rift and Vive at the same time to your PC or do you have to disconnect one in order to use the other?

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Very nice post! One quick question:

Can you connect both Rift and Vive at the same time to your PC or do you have to disconnect one in order to use the other?

 

If you have enough ports to connect both, there should be no reason why you would have to disconnect one. However, I believe you would have a problem launching a game and deciding which one it would use and so probably you would need to unplug it. (Perhaps shortcut parameters can adjust this). If I launch DCS with the rift plugged in, it will automatically launch on the rift, you don't get a choice to use your monitor. So you wouldn't be able to choose which headset you want to view it on either I would expect.

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