F-14 Cockpit and instrument dimensions

[Gunslinger22]

On 5/3/2021 at 7:25 PM, AusMumbles said:

Heya Will, 

 

Sorry about the delay on this. Been flat out with work as always. I'll upload my front and backseat plans for you soon, (just want to idiot check them first). Couple of FYI's with it. I've had to make some assumptions with the backseat based on the front seat ergonomics. The TID and DDD were best guess on my part. Once I get some better data from a real Turkey or 3d scans I'll re-attack the model. (Doc Harley if you have some stuff from the back seat on the DDD, TID or left and right vertical panels it would be greatly appreciated).  

 

PSYKOnz, awesome work on your pit mate! Love the multiple base shaker idea for tactile feedback.

Must be nice to be able to finally fly in it.

 

I've got some stuff done on the front seat finally. 

I've knocked up the GRU-7A frame and parachute pack. The parachute pack has got some complex curves that I can't build with timber. I've put together a hot wire foam cutter and a jig to make the shell. Next step is to fibreglass it and attach it to the timber back. 

I've also found automotive primer filler has done wonders in removing the timber grain on the side of the seat. 

 

It's great to finally see lots of pits being finished off. Gunslinger, your pit is stunning btw.

 

Cheers,

Mumbles

 

Parachute Pack Jig

Seat Frame

Dogey Dog

Sanding/Test paint filler. 

Wire cut foam and back

3mm Skeleton frame (WIP)

 

Hey mate, looks great! For the parachute pack, I used chipboard for the back and top. Then for the complex curves at the bottom I simple flashed around the sides with some colorbond I had left over. You could probably use some lead flashing also, which would be just as easy to mould.

 

Word of advice also for the seat, really ensure you've got a great and light cushion for the seat pan or else you'll struggle on some longer flights. I had to redesign mine, though luckily my design had room for improvement because the pans lid comes off so I can get to where I installed my buttkicker. 

[Woody81]

Good morning/afternoon/evening all! I have been watching this thread for around  18 months but this is my first post. I'm sure I found it by searching for panel dimensions, and decided to bookmark for future reference. Well, the future is now! I've just recently bought a laser cutter and I'm working out how to use it with the software. After watching several pit builds on youtube, I just knew I had to go for it with the F-14.  The loft still needs to be cleared (bit of a storage issue!) but I've actually designed the first panel that I'm going to cut on the laser. It's the AFCS panel and I'm going to use the same method as the warthog project. 3 layers of acrylic, black on the bottom with holes cut for LEDs, clear centre layer for light dispersal, and white on top, sprayed black and engraved. Probably the next one I'll work on, will be the display panel. I'd also be be happy to share the SVG files once I've verified the accuracy of them for anyone else to use. I did manage to find mechanical interlocking switches on eBay for not a great deal of money and they come in various sizes of banks 3,4,5 etc.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/362585564366

 

I'm not sure if the switches will end up being accurate in size, but they are definitely accurate in function. I've been racking my brains to try and work out a way to make the switch tops for these. Obviously I'm a little way off doing any building, but this is something that I can't get my head around... I'm thinking some kind of notch and pin scenario, but not worked it out yet. Plenty of time though, still a couple of weeks off sorting the space out. One final thing before I bore you all to death, just would like to say thank you for sharing all your work, it it will be something I refer to on a regular basis once the pit is under construction.

Speak soon

o7

 

 

 

[Whiskey11]

 

Something is happening here!   I purchased some of those interlock switches mentioned above, but I'm also designing the switch set from the ground up because its unlikely that interlock switch set will actually be the correct size.  It might be, dunno, if it is, awesome!   If it's not, I'll be prepared!  I just got my 3D printer today, so still figuring things out.  For instance, this button was printed as it is seen in the picture and as a result it didn't print very well on the bottom part of the press part because it was printing into air.  The next one will get printed on its side with supports, so hopefully that'll improve the quality of the print!

[punk]

12 hours ago, Whiskey11 said:

 

Something is happening here!   I purchased some of those interlock switches mentioned above, but I'm also designing the switch set from the ground up because its unlikely that interlock switch set will actually be the correct size.  It might be, dunno, if it is, awesome!   If it's not, I'll be prepared!  I just got my 3D printer today, so still figuring things out.  For instance, this button was printed as it is seen in the picture and as a result it didn't print very well on the bottom part of the press part because it was printing into air.  The next one will get printed on its side with supports, so hopefully that'll improve the quality of the print!

The Real switch banks are much larger than than the ones listed above, but they should work just fine. I can post photos of a genuine one if you want.

 

Salute,

Punk

[Whiskey11]

1 hour ago, punk said:

The Real switch banks are much larger than than the ones listed above, but they should work just fine. I can post photos of a genuine one if you want.

 

Salute,

Punk

 

Actually, if you have the ability to measure them, and pictures, that'd be awesome   I need to go through this forum again as there were a lot of other great photos.  The one above is about 17mm (2/3rd of an inch) which I got by measuring pixels vs the known panel width.  The height and stuff is all wrong because I'm just kind of winging the assembly of it all.

[LanceCriminal86]

I went ahead and ordered one of those switches as well, curious to see if it can be upscaled to work or I may just live with the smaller size.

 

My big thing is rudder pedals right now, not running VR but some button boxes and more physical controls that I usually use are high on my want list right now. Gear/Hook levers, flap lever, a simplified ACM panel would be top wants, and the mode switches with some toggles for the settings. A display for the HSD and radar would also be nice, plus airspeed and altitude.

[Whiskey11]

14 minutes ago, LanceCriminal86 said:

I went ahead and ordered one of those switches as well, curious to see if it can be upscaled to work or I may just live with the smaller size.

 

My big thing is rudder pedals right now, not running VR but some button boxes and more physical controls that I usually use are high on my want list right now. Gear/Hook levers, flap lever, a simplified ACM panel would be top wants, and the mode switches with some toggles for the settings. A display for the HSD and radar would also be nice, plus airspeed and altitude.

 

Without them in hand, there is a mechanical bar that links the switches together in addition to the structural piece which physically holds them together.  The bar is what provides the "Interlock" feature (pressing one button causes the others to pop out to the off position).  I don't know that you can modify those easily and maintain the interlock feature.

Part of what I'm doing with my 3D Printer is designing that interlock system such that it is the correct size and you can use any tactile button under it.  Once I get it done, I'll probably throw it up online.

Edited May 27, 2021 by Whiskey11

[Whiskey11]

Alright, some additional progress on the 5 Pack switches.  I have the basic design down and I am working on printing the parts out for further testing.  There are some obvious things missing from this, but I'll do my best to explain as we go.

 

There are five total parts in this assembly:
1.) Button Cap
2.) Button Mid Section

3.) Button Bottom Section
4.) Five Pack Body
5.) Transfer Bar Assembly (the Interlock)

The buttons are each separated into three components.  Two of those components (#1 and #2) are for ease of assembly of the whole unit.  The cap will be glued on (you can't see it, but it's keyed in the .stl file) to the middle section.  The middle section is the stem which goes into the five pack body (#4) and is keyed so it rotates the button cap.  The bottom part isn't visible but it's basically a square with pegs on each side which interact with the Transfer Bar Assembly (#5) and eventually the actual switch to send inputs to the computer.

The transfer bar is marked as two pieces in the picture but it actually has supports in between each button and has to be glued together post assembly.  Right now there is nothing holding the Transfer Bar to the Five Pack Body.  Not pictured are the six springs necessary to make this assembly work.  Five for each button and ONE to push the transfer bar from bottom right to top left in the picture.  In THEORY, this is how the interlock switches work on the real one, albeit probably far more elegantly.  

 

I am nearing the end of my free PLA which came with the machine, so I'm printing out button caps with the remainder of it.  I'll tackle printing the Five Pack Body and Transfer Bar with the new roll of PLA.  For now, I have a single switch assembly which demonstrates #1, #2, and one button's worth of #4.

 

 

And it rotates like it should, and fairly smoothly for an all plastic assembly!  I will update when I get the Five Pack Body, and transfer bar assembly working.  Maybe a video if I can find some springs to use.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Whiskey11

[punk]

On 5/27/2021 at 1:12 PM, Whiskey11 said:

 

Actually, if you have the ability to measure them, and pictures, that'd be awesome   I need to go through this forum again as there were a lot of other great photos.  The one above is about 17mm (2/3rd of an inch) which I got by measuring pixels vs the known panel width.  The height and stuff is all wrong because I'm just kind of winging the assembly of it all.

Here are some pics, only got a couple before  power went out from storm that moved in. Let me know specific questions and I will answer best I can. I added one of a similar button bank as above, but it has 6 buttons. Length wise similar enough to get the job done. It is what I will be forced to use for the Air Source as I only have 2 of the 5 button banks. I may use one of the two 8 button banks I have from an A-6, but that will lengthen the panel quit a bit. Dunno. Let me know anything else I can do to help you out.

 

Salute,

Punk

[Whiskey11]

12 hours ago, punk said:

Here are some pics, only got a couple before  power went out from storm that moved in. Let me know specific questions and I will answer best I can. I added one of a similar button bank as above, but it has 6 buttons. Length wise similar enough to get the job done. It is what I will be forced to use for the Air Source as I only have 2 of the 5 button banks. I may use one of the two 8 button banks I have from an A-6, but that will lengthen the panel quit a bit. Dunno. Let me know anything else I can do to help you out.

 

Salute,

Punk

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those measurements are perfect, actually!  Thanks for taking the time to grab them!  

Some random interesting side notes: 
1.)  I did not expect the button to be plastic with a metal pin going through it... but I guess that kind of makes sense!
2.) The caps are a single internal pin to provide rotation while mine are external, and I have two pins per cap
3.)  My button caps are fairly similar in size, slightly larger (by about a 1/16th of an inch), and the dimensions need tweaking (knew that was going to be a thing)
4.)  I was pretty close with the overall button throw (how far it presses)

 

Time to work on the revisions!   Going to have to make some choices on how closely I wish to replicate the original buttons, vs designing something which looks and functions the same but is more 3D printer friendly and requires less niche hardware store trips!  Those pins would be nearly impossible to find.

That said, it looks like those ebay interlock switches are damn close to the correct measurements and would only need a cap system put on them to make them rotate.  When mine show up next week I'll have to see if I can adapt them somehow (should be easy enough) to get the looks down.  Probably just be an extension of the system I've already built, but tweaked slightly.

Edited May 29, 2021 by Whiskey11

[punk]

3 hours ago, Whiskey11 said:

 

Those measurements are perfect, actually!  Thanks for taking the time to grab them!  

Some random interesting side notes: 
1.)  I did not expect the button to be plastic with a metal pin going through it... but I guess that kind of makes sense!
2.) The caps are a single internal pin to provide rotation while mine are external, and I have two pins per cap
3.)  My button caps are fairly similar in size, slightly larger (by about a 1/16th of an inch), and the dimensions need tweaking (knew that was going to be a thing)
4.)  I was pretty close with the overall button throw (how far it presses)

 

Time to work on the revisions!   Going to have to make some choices on how closely I wish to replicate the original buttons, vs designing something which looks and functions the same but is more 3D printer friendly and requires less niche hardware store trips!  Those pins would be nearly impossible to find.

That said, it looks like those ebay interlock switches are damn close to the correct measurements and would only need a cap system put on them to make them rotate.  When mine show up next week I'll have to see if I can adapt them somehow (should be easy enough) to get the looks down.  Probably just be an extension of the system I've already built, but tweaked slightly.

 

The metal part screws the cap on very securely. I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

 

Salute,

Punk

[VF31_Subsonic]

On 2/26/2021 at 2:21 PM, AH_Solid_Snake said:

Can anyone help me identify the types of switches used for the lighting and air conditioning selectors? They seem to be some kind of rotary but I don't know what the name would be to search for them.

 

Here is how I did mine.  Created a gear train to offset some of the wheels since they stack together close.

 

 

[LanceCriminal86]

On 5/28/2021 at 12:12 PM, Whiskey11 said:

Alright, some additional progress on the 5 Pack switches.  I have the basic design down and I am working on printing the parts out for further testing.  There are some obvious things missing from this, but I'll do my best to explain as we go.

 

There are five total parts in this assembly:
1.) Button Cap
2.) Button Mid Section

3.) Button Bottom Section
4.) Five Pack Body
5.) Transfer Bar Assembly (the Interlock)

The buttons are each separated into three components.  Two of those components (#1 and #2) are for ease of assembly of the whole unit.  The cap will be glued on (you can't see it, but it's keyed in the .stl file) to the middle section.  The middle section is the stem which goes into the five pack body (#4) and is keyed so it rotates the button cap.  The bottom part isn't visible but it's basically a square with pegs on each side which interact with the Transfer Bar Assembly (#5) and eventually the actual switch to send inputs to the computer.

The transfer bar is marked as two pieces in the picture but it actually has supports in between each button and has to be glued together post assembly.  Right now there is nothing holding the Transfer Bar to the Five Pack Body.  Not pictured are the six springs necessary to make this assembly work.  Five for each button and ONE to push the transfer bar from bottom right to top left in the picture.  In THEORY, this is how the interlock switches work on the real one, albeit probably far more elegantly.  

 

I am nearing the end of my free PLA which came with the machine, so I'm printing out button caps with the remainder of it.  I'll tackle printing the Five Pack Body and Transfer Bar with the new roll of PLA.  For now, I have a single switch assembly which demonstrates #1, #2, and one button's worth of #4.

 

 

And it rotates like it should, and fairly smoothly for an all plastic assembly!  I will update when I get the Five Pack Body, and transfer bar assembly working.  Maybe a video if I can find some springs to use.

 

 

Wish I could get some mini switches like that to work with the eBay casette switch thing posted earlier in the thread. It seems to work as intended, just needs buttons that rotate and I need to learn how to build a button box for it, wire it up, etc.

[punk]

1 hour ago, LanceCriminal86 said:

 

Wish I could get some mini switches like that to work with the eBay casette switch thing posted earlier in the thread. It seems to work as intended, just needs buttons that rotate and I need to learn how to build a button box for it, wire it up, etc.

Hi Criminal,

Leo Bodnar's boards make it very easy to have plug and play switches. If I can do it, any one can :). There are other brands out there, but I have found his the easiest to use for me. Perhaps Whiskey will share or sell his finished button plans.

 

Salute,

Punk

[Uxi]

On 5/29/2021 at 8:27 AM, Whiskey11 said:

That said, it looks like those ebay interlock switches are damn close to the correct measurements and would only need a cap system put on them to make them rotate.  When mine show up next week I'll have to see if I can adapt them somehow (should be easy enough) to get the looks down.  Probably just be an extension of the system I've already built, but tweaked slightly.

 

 

I bought a few of the 5 button piano interlocks,  so definitely interested if you can do something for that! 3d printer ready to rock.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Uxi

[punk]

For anyone interested in seeing just how big the TCS is:

 

[Whiskey11]

On 6/9/2021 at 7:18 PM, Uxi said:

 

I bought a few of the 5 button piano interlocks,  so definitely interested if you can do something for that! 3d printer ready to rock.

 

 

If my measurements from the pictures are correct, the Piano button interlocks are only a little too small.  I'm pretty sure I can get it to work through offset actuators on the bottom of the rotating portion of the button.  I'll be playing around with them for sure since it drastically simplifies creation of those switches to something fairly manageable.

[VF31_Subsonic]

8 hours ago, Whiskey11 said:

 

If my measurements from the pictures are correct, the Piano button interlocks are only a little too small.  I'm pretty sure I can get it to work through offset actuators on the bottom of the rotating portion of the button.  I'll be playing around with them for sure since it drastically simplifies creation of those switches to something fairly manageable.

 

Yea the switches are only a bit too close, but workable.
Seems easier to use the bar they are attached to, rather than redesign that.
The tricky part is the rotation...you need to rotate the switch 45 degrees in just 3.9mm of switch throw.
FUN to design that.
Printing prototype now

[LanceCriminal86]

17 hours ago, punk said:

For anyone interested in seeing just how big the TCS is:

 

 

Do you have any pictures of the lenses that are inside the front of the housing? I've been kitbashing some textures together since portions of the internals are currently untextured, but based on the photos I've seen there isn't much to texture other than some kind of reflective bowl. I just took a pic of a flashlight reflector and threw it in there, and it seems to spruce the TCS up nicely.

[punk]

4 hours ago, LanceCriminal86 said:

 

Do you have any pictures of the lenses that are inside the front of the housing? I've been kitbashing some textures together since portions of the internals are currently untextured, but based on the photos I've seen there isn't much to texture other than some kind of reflective bowl. I just took a pic of a flashlight reflector and threw it in there, and it seems to spruce the TCS up nicely.

Unfortunately I only have an old flip phone with a cruddy camera so any images would be grainy and poor. I do have these online photos, hope they help a little better. If these aren't what you are looking for let me know in more detail and I will see what I can do to help.

 

Salute,

Punk

[VF31_Subsonic]

19 hours ago, Whiskey11 said:

 

If my measurements from the pictures are correct, the Piano button interlocks are only a little too small.  I'm pretty sure I can get it to work through offset actuators on the bottom of the rotating portion of the button.  I'll be playing around with them for sure since it drastically simplifies creation of those switches to something fairly manageable.

 

Success!

Rotating PB

[Whiskey11]

6 hours ago, VF2 Subsonic said:

 

Success!

Rotating PB

Nice!  Getting the correct switch size and spacing isn't an issue if you offset the caps to the correct spacing and just have them hit each button off center from the cap. 

 

I've been working so much lately, I haven't had time to mess with the setup at all... hopefully next week.

 

Staying true to the Grumman design presents some serious issues, so I was glad to see you went the route I did!

[Uxi]

Awesome!  Can you share the stl?

[AH_Solid_Snake]

On 6/12/2021 at 3:46 PM, Uxi said:

Awesome!  Can you share the stl?

 

Seconded! This will really level up my displays panel if you wouldn’t mind sharing

[Uxi]

Was able to score a TACAN panel for not TOO expensive of evilbay so gotta add that to the list.