TrackIR Behavior with 1.5.4 Release

[cichlidfan]

I played around with each plane I have (I have all except the Gazelle) and here's what I did for the A-10C:

I'm sure you guys know that TIR has included a profile for the A10C. Just look in the "Titles" tab in the TIR software for DCS: A-10C.

 

There is no profile for DCS A-10C in TIR. All you did was assign the default profile, unless you selected one of the other two, to the old standalone version of DCS A-10C. IIRC, if you want to assign a specific profile (one of the three defaults, or a custom one) to DCS World you should select Black Shark as the title to assign it to.

 

TIR comes with three profiles. They are located in C:\Program Files (x86)\NaturalPoint\TrackIR5\Profiles.

 

EDIT: Here is the relevant text from the manual.

 

5.8.2 Title Management

The Titles section displays a list of all TrackIR enhanced Titles, allows sorting by genre, and enables you to assign a

profile to a TrackIR Enhanced title so that the profile will be loaded automatically when the title starts.

In order to associate profiles with titles, click on the drop-down list on the right-hand side and select a new one from the

list of available profiles. Keep in mind that the profile will not be loaded until the title is started.

Edited July 11, 2016 by cichlidfan

[jay43]

18 pages later and its beginning to grow on me, the explanation here and then flying for quite some time makes perfect sense as to why it was changed.

I spent quite a few hours now re-setting tir to suit the new view and feel this is how its meant to be and there should be an option but this the best view we now have line of sight, you shouldn't be constantly looking down.

Yes you need to look down and glance at instruments but that is all you need the hud has the rest, just spend a bit of time adjusting the pitch in tir and you're good to go.

Now i just need a little more fps....

[jjohnson241]

There is no profile for DCS A-10C in TIR. All you did was assign the default profile, unless you selected one of the other two, to the old standalone version of DCS A-10C. IIRC, if you want to assign a specific profile (one of the three defaults, or a custom one) to DCS World you should select Black Shark as the title to assign it to.

 

TIR comes with three profiles. They are located in C:\Program Files (x86)\NaturalPoint\TrackIR5\Profiles.

 

EDIT: Here is the relevant text from the manual.

 

I have an A-10C profile in my TIR titles and it activates a hen I fly the A -10C. I adjusted the view center in that profile and it worked. The Profile may have been a residual from the old stand-alone A-10C but I know I didn't create the profile. It works and that's all that matters. Hi

[Art-J]

Well, just to clear things up, there IS an A-10C profile in default TiR software, though I don't know how it works, 'cause I've never used it :).

[hoochiekoo]

What key, or key combo, do you have defined for centering? If it is a key/key combo used by DCS, it is possible that DCS is trapping the keystroke and not letting TIR ever see it. I have mine set to keys that DCS does not use, which, thus far, has given me no problems.

 

Now I've set Rctrl+F9 as the center TrackIR key but still can't center TrackIR in game. I fly Su-25T and there is no RCtrl+F9 in the command key.

[Gliptal]

18 pages later and its beginning to grow on me, the explanation here and then flying for quite some time makes perfect sense as to why it was changed.

I spent quite a few hours now re-setting tir to suit the new view and feel this is how its meant to be and there should be an option but this the best view we now have line of sight, you shouldn't be constantly looking down.

Yes you need to look down and glance at instruments but that is all you need the hud has the rest, just spend a bit of time adjusting the pitch in tir and you're good to go.

Now i just need a little more fps....

The HUD is not sanctioned for instruments flying.

[Aginor]

The HUD is not sanctioned for instruments flying.

Love that argument.

While technically true it is hard to explain to guys who just know the HUD is never wrong in the sim except when you were hit.

 

But yeah...

Working TrackIR is kind of necessary, and (at least in my short testing session) it seemed to work OK in 1.5.4

[Foul Ole Ron]

Wasn't happy when I first tried out the A-10 in 1.5.4 but after fiddling around with Track IR for a few mins so I could see the HUD and MFCDs together and getting used to the new view I don't think I'd go back. Feels like a good change overall but I guess an option for either type would be best.

[jjohnson241]

Wasn't happy when I first tried out the A-10 in 1.5.4 but after fiddling around with Track IR for a few mins so I could see the HUD and MFCDs together and getting used to the new view I don't think I'd go back. Feels like a good change overall but I guess an option for either type would be best.

 

+1

[MagnumHB]

Wasn't happy when I first tried out the A-10 in 1.5.4 but after fiddling around with Track IR for a few mins so I could see the HUD and MFCDs together and getting used to the new view I don't think I'd go back. Feels like a good change overall but I guess an option for either type would be best.

If you had to fiddle around with the TrackIR for several minutes to get a view you were satisfied with, one that includes both the HUD and MFCDs, I don't see how you actually like the change. What you did was unfortunately waste your actual playing time with control tweaking to presumably try to get the view as close as possible to the old one. That doesn't sound like a positive experience to me.

[SkateZilla]

TrackIR has never been a out of the box plug n play device, it's always required some tuning and personal adjustments on a per user basis.

 

it's only natural to have to adjust settings and curves when the behavior changes.

[cichlidfan]

I have an A-10C profile in my TIR titles and it activates a hen I fly the A -10C. I adjusted the view center in that profile and it worked. The Profile may have been a residual from the old stand-alone A-10C but I know I didn't create the profile. It works and that's all that matters. Hi

 

Well, just to clear things up, there IS an A-10C profile in default TiR software, though I don't know how it works, 'cause I've never used it :).

 

If it makes you happy to think that, then fine. The Titles list in TIR is a list of EVERY single title that TIR works with. If you think they have a profile for each and every game, then you are welcome to think that.

 

It still is not true.

[Art-J]

Roger, it is only a list allright. Never bothered with checking what it is and how it works, 'cause I've been using my own single profile for all apps from the get go. Thought it was coming with a set of profiles (it's surprisingly short list after all), but after having a second look, nope it doesn't. I admit I was wrong, though not sure if Your trademarked somewhat arrogant attitude in pointing it out was necessary.

[Foul Ole Ron]

If you had to fiddle around with the TrackIR for several minutes to get a view you were satisfied with, one that includes both the HUD and MFCDs, I don't see how you actually like the change. What you did was unfortunately waste your actual playing time with control tweaking to presumably try to get the view as close as possible to the old one. That doesn't sound like a positive experience to me.

 

The view is different from the old one still after tweaking. After playing with it for a while I prefer the new view - seems more natural. Only took 5-10 mins of tweaking so I won't be losing any sleep over my time being wasted.

[dburne]

The view is different from the old one still after tweaking. After playing with it for a while I prefer the new view - seems more natural. Only took 5-10 mins of tweaking so I won't be losing any sleep over my time being wasted.

 

I have gotten mine a little better with tweaking as well, can't say yet that I like the new way better though, time will tell for me. I am making progress though.

[gavagai]

Yes you need to look down and glance at instruments but that is all you need the hud has the rest

 

I've watched a real Viper pilot fly the simulation of the F-16C. His eyes were on 3 places 90% of the time: the HUD, FCR, and RWR.

 

You can see the HUD, FCR, RWR and the sky at the same time in the real cockpit with your head level. With the limited FOV of a computer display you have to compromise. If you set your view so that your natural resting place for your head doesn't show the most vital information you are sacrificing SA. You get a nice view of the sky and clouds, but your reaction time will be delayed, or worse, you could miss something vitally important.

[dburne]

Roger, it is only a list allright. Never bothered with checking what it is and how it works, 'cause I've been using my own single profile for all apps from the get go.

 

It is a list, however you can associate a game title with a profile - either one of the defaults or a custom profile you have created. Alternatively you can use exclusive load, which is handy if one uses the same profile for most of their flight sims.

 

I have a custom profile set up for DCS, and I use the Black Shark title in the titles list to associate it with. It loads my custom profile fine for DCS.

[SharpeXB]

TrackIR has never been a out of the box plug n play device, it's always required some tuning and personal adjustments on a per user basis.

 

it's only natural to have to adjust settings and curves when the behavior changes.

For myself. With RoF and BoS TrackIR is in fact an out of the box plug and play device. No adjustments needed. The games are designed to work with it perfectly so it doesn't need any customization at all. There's almost no need to recenter it in those games either. Whereas DCS needs it more often.

[MagnumHB]

Doing a quick bit of research shows that the current 1.5.4 implementation is simply incorrect in terms of human factors as far as I can tell. Every worthwhile diagram I could find of normal field of view/line of sight (see 1, 2, 3, 4) indicates that the normal seated line of sight is 15 degrees below horizontal. This agrees with the way the eye works as seen in this diagram depicting the line of sight angled below horizontal. Furthermore, the field of view is wider below (70-80 degrees) horizontal than it is above (50-55 degrees). The previous implementation of centering the view 27 degrees below horizontal seems to be a more valid approximation of the natural line of sight plus some fudging to account for the wider natural field of view below horizontal.

 

Centering the line of sight at horizontal as in 1.5.4 does not seem to reflect the way line of sight actually works. It certainly does not match my experiences in light aircraft being able to both easily see outside and scan the instruments, and I doubt that it matches the A-10 either. Note that in this diagram, the 20 degree field of view below horizontal is specifically emphasized to show the view over the nose. Assuming the 15 degree natural line of sight, it is obvious that the high seating position in the A-10 is optimized to maximize view of the ground, not to have the pilot stare straight out at the top edge of the HUD.

[Mayo2017]

For myself. With RoF and BoS TrackIR is in fact an out of the box plug and play device. No adjustments needed. The games are designed to work with it perfectly so it doesn't need any customization at all. There's almost no need to recenter it in those games either. Whereas DCS needs it more often.

 

It doesn't help that (not sure about 1.5.4) what TrackIR says it's sending to DCS, and what DCS actually shows are different. For example, TrackIR will say that in-game I'm looking 60° to the right, but in DCS I'm actually looking 90° to the right. For me, things like E:D and FSX do exactly what TrackIR says it's doing, while DCS does not.

[Barao]

Doing a quick bit of research shows that the current 1.5.4 implementation is simply incorrect in terms of human factors as far as I can tell. Every worthwhile diagram I could find of normal field of view/line of sight (see 1, 2, 3, 4) indicates that the normal seated line of sight is 15 degrees below horizontal. This agrees with the way the eye works as seen in this diagram depicting the line of sight angled below horizontal. Furthermore, the field of view is wider below (70-80 degrees) horizontal than it is above (50-55 degrees). The previous implementation of centering the view 27 degrees below horizontal seems to be a more valid approximation of the natural line of sight plus some fudging to account for the wider natural field of view below horizontal.

 

Centering the line of sight at horizontal as in 1.5.4 does not seem to reflect the way line of sight actually works. It certainly does not match my experiences in light aircraft being able to both easily see outside and scan the instruments, and I doubt that it matches the A-10 either. Note that in this diagram, the 20 degree field of view below horizontal is specifically emphasized to show the view over the nose. Assuming the 15 degree natural line of sight, it is obvious that the high seating position in the A-10 is optimized to maximize view of the ground, not to have the pilot stare straight out at the top edge of the HUD.

 

As I said earlier, I have hundreds of hours in a fighter cockpit, and I agree with you, the current setting of the 1.5.4 version is wrong in my view.

But I respect the opinion of those who want to use the new configuration, so I think we should have both options.

[Barao]

And you are forgetting the AOA when in flight!!!!!

[dburne]

I made some adjustments in my Track IR profile and got it better for me, kind of getting used to it now. I still would say I would have preferred the old setup, but maybe after some time I will appreciate the new method better.

[Dun_Aenghus]

Has anyone had any luck trying to fix this vibration view in the cockpit while being unable to zoom out? Frustrating as hell trying to find a solution and the sim is completely unplayable. Only occurs when the TrackIR is up and running.

[SkateZilla]

What's your Smooth level at?