Please read and help me/us all

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

...locking on the strobe signal will roughly give his altitude if he's low, medium or high so you can act accordingly.

Yes, you get “rough” idea about jammer’s altitude. You also get rough (relative) altitude info from his radar radiation. However, this use to work better in the previous versions of Lock On.

[GGTharos]

You can get pretty exact altitude just by matching it, but you don't need do - really if I can peg your range within 10nm I can time the engagement pretty accurately given a few assumptions.

 

1v1 it isn't too hard - what -is- hard is when you have your entire screen blanked out by ECM, friendlies using ECM, enemies using ECM, etc etc.

[ScEBlack1]

1 on 1 yes it can be done quite easily, but, with everyone jamming it becomes very difficult. It sure seems that no one has ever picked up the manual for Lockon and read anything, i constantly see messages for very simple questions filling up the chat and it makes me laugh and wonder what FPS game they are coming from, o well i still love to see new names online and hope they will look up a few of their questions before they fly.

[Ironhand]

You are only giving away your bearing. However, he doesn’t know the distance and altitude. And in such a case, his tactical situation is much more complicated. While flanker can pick up jamming at 200km he does not know if the jamming aircraft is 25km or 178km far. Is it at 1000m or 4000m. What is the target speed and velocity vector.

I was going to respond more fully to this but I see the points have already been made farther down the response list. So I just want to emphasize for the new guys that the jammer does NOT make you invisible and might even make your situation worse. Someone who might have otherwise overlooked you, will know that you're there. And you are letting him know much more about your situation than you think you are.

 

Rich

[GGTharos]

And what's worse, an F-15 can lock onto your jammer silenty - you will never get a search or lock warning until burn through, and he can track you this way right down to the parking ramp ... ;)

[Cosmonaut]

I was going to respond more fully to this but I see the points have already been made farther down the response list. So I just want to emphasize for the new guys that the jammer does NOT make you invisible and might even make your situation worse. Someone who might have otherwise overlooked you, will know that you're there. And you are letting him know much more about your situation than you think you are.

 

Rich

 

Yep that pretty much sums it up. Also with ECM on you will most likely get a late warning of an Amraam coming your way so be aware that ECM can make things more difficult for you if you don’t have a good understanding of how and when to use it. No one here is saying never add to someone else’s “HUD Matrix effect” but don’t think of jamming as something you automatically do after take off like raising your landing gear.

[coldcrew]

whatever man. I'll turn on my jammers because I want to turn on my jammers. I'll fly my way, you fly yours.

[Guest Cali]

whatever man. I'll turn on my jammers because I want to turn on my jammers. I'll fly my way, you fly yours.

 

Do whatever your little heart desires, I'm trying to help people that might not of known or understand. Please try to keep it positive there was no need for your comment.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Yep. And once you know their altitude, change yours so its known, and look at where the target box is - you need a 10000' or so change (Actually this is a good number). After that, it's all about memorizing a couple ratios and basically if your target does not change altitude, you can estimate his range by the change in angle.

Has anybody been able to apply GGTharos's method (as explained here) to find the range to the target?

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

I was going to respond more fully to this but I see the points have already been made farther down the response list.

Thanks for watching this thread.

So I just want to emphasize for the new guys that the jammer does NOT make you invisible…

I am yet to find anybody on this forum stating that the ECM makes them invisible.

… and (the jammer) might even make your situation worse.

This is correct statement, however, I would add that the jammer might make your situation better too. After all there is a purpose for a jammer and that's why airplanes have them and use them.

 

Instead of flying arround without a jammer (easy target for F-15) I will try to educate myself about ECM and find the best way to use it.

[Guest IguanaKing]

This is a good thread, Cali. It is getting all kinds of misconceptions out in the open that people have about using their jammers. SPJs really only help when the enemy already has a lock on you, and like GG said, they won't help at all against medium to long-range SAMs. If you have to make a run at a Shilka or Gecko, then you turn it on ONLY when he goes into high PRF. Make your shot, dump countermeasures, and get the hell out of there. Turn that jammer off as soon as you are safe, otherwise you are screaming "KILL ME!!!" to every fighter in the area. If you are in a package with other on-line players, you are also calling fighters in on THEM, and some of them may not appreciate that. One of the few times I was on-line in an A-10, the other 2 in my flight suddenly called "music on" when there was no immediate radar threat. My reaction to that was "What the...?!!! NO!!! Turn them off!!!". Heh...I was actually kinda glad at that point that I had never put much emphasis on formation flying.

[PFMM]

An interesting and learned thread. Good posts all round.

 

In the single player campaigns there are fights with more than ten planes a side involved. While the computer controlled planes are probably not the most erudite pilots (they're better than me), the mess on the UHD of some using jammers while others don't from both sides can make reckonning the the situation difficult.

 

Any thoughts on the value of this in human versus human multi plane fights?

 

Tutorials would be fine (Hint, Ironhand, hint).

[3Sqn_Sven]

Has anybody been able to apply GGTharos's method (as explained here) to find the range to the target?

 

I use a similar method, the crux of the situation is that I, and most other experienced players, will find it easier to shoot down someone who is jamming than someone who is not. We're getting the grumpies about the "ECM forrests" we are seeing online of late.

 

By using a few basic method's to estimate someone's range you can launch at them without them knowing and splash them from a greater range than you normally could. They often won't know the missile is inbound at all, hence they won't avoid. Meanwhile, I've F-Poled and reduced the distance at which they can fire.

 

This one time (at lomac camp) I was TWSing a dude in a Su-33. At 25 miles he started jamming, and I fired (i was at 40kft). I f-poled and reduced speed, the missile splashed him. I've never scored a Aim120 kill from anything like that far against guys who have jammers off. 17 miles at high alt is generally the max (due to them being aware and manouvering).

[Guest Cali]

One of the few times I was on-line in an A-10, the other 2 in my flight suddenly called "music on" when there was no immediate radar threat. My reaction to that was "What the...?!!! NO!!! Turn them off!!!". Heh...I was actually kinda glad at that point that I had never put much emphasis on formation flying.

 

I don't understand why some people do this as well. I need to program a button on my stick that says "Blue/Red turn jammers off" which ever side I'm flying on. Cause I don't have time to type it out everytime, I might be busy.

[3Sqn_Sven]

I don't understand why some people do this as well. I need to program a button on my stick that says "Blue/Red turn jammers off" which ever side I'm flying on. Cause I don't have time to type it out everytime, I might be busy.

 

LOL!

[Guest Cali]

This one time (at lomac camp) I was TWSing a dude in a Su-33. At 25 miles he started jamming, and I fired (i was at 40kft). I f-poled and reduced speed, the missile splashed him. I've never scored a Aim120 kill from anything like that far against guys who have jammers off. 17 miles at high alt is generally the max (due to them being aware and manouvering).

 

I scored a kill just the other day doing the some thing. I launched at 40 miles and then again at 30 miles and I was at 44kft, but my target wasn't jamming, I used TWS. The one I launched at 30 miles killed him.

 

Also need to program a button that says "BUDDY LOCK!" and "STOP LOCKING ME I'M ON YOUR SIDE"

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

This one time (at lomac camp) I was TWSing a dude in a Su-33. At 25 miles he started jamming, and I fired (i was at 40kft). I f-poled and reduced speed, the missile splashed him. I've never scored a Aim120 kill from anything like that far against guys who have jammers off. 17 miles at high alt is generally the max (due to them being aware and manouvering).

First, you got the range before he turned his ECM on. So you knew where he was before he turned his jammer on. Then you climbed and launched. This is the scenario I explained earlier on this thread.

 

Second, you were “TWSing”. Well, with ECM on, you can not launch in TWS on multiple target, can you? Probaly not even on a sigle target. You can HOJ lock and launch one by one, however, you don’t have a clue (other then bearing and approximate alt) where the tragets are.

 

Here's what I do:

Turn my jammer on when ingress. Turn it off occasionally when I suspect that missile is launched at me.

Turn the ECM off when flying back to base.

Turn ECM off upon team request for ID purpose.

Turn ECM off when I suspect Su’s and MiG’s are hunting for with EOS.

[S77th-GOYA]

Also need to program a button that says "BUDDY LOCK!" and "STOP LOCKING ME I'M ON YOUR SIDE"

 

IMO, that problem needs more attention than overuse of ECM. For the life of me, I just don't understand why anyone would lock up a non-jamming friendly, and hold it for three freaking minutes until they pass you. :chair:

[Guest Cali]

First, you got the range before he turned his ECM on. So you knew where he was before he turned his jammer on. Then you climbed and launched. This is the scenario I explained earlier on this thread.

 

Second, you were “TWSing”. Well, with ECM on, you can not launch in TWS on multiple target, can you? Probaly not even on a sigle target. You can HOJ lock and launch one by one, however, you don’t have a clue (other then bearing and approximate alt) where the tragets are.

 

First, where did he say he climbed? He was already at that altitude.

 

Second, He was in TWS first then the bandit started jammin out, and no you can't launch on multiple targets in HOJ, so yes he would of HOJ'ed him.

 

 

IMO, that problem needs more attention than overuse of ECM. For the life of me, I just don't understand why anyone would lock up a non-jamming friendly, and hold it for three freaking minutes until they pass you. :chair:

 

That baffles me too.

[Frostie]

Jamming in Su/Mig is the closest to stealth flying your gonna get in LOMAC as long as your radar remains inactive there is no way an F15 can tell your range ,any decent pilot wont stay at the same altitude when trying this method so working out range by locking on the strobe is pointless until its getting close. The Su/Mig pilot will know its enemys range through the beroza and can act accordingly to range ,when launch range is near trying to duck 'hopefully' below radar and disengaging jammers is a good tactic that does work well especially in a crowded enviroment .The key is to remain with the upperhand against the F15s superior radar and the best way is effective ECM.

[GGTharos]

The F-15 will track your jammer silently, without transmitting. In fact, YOU might be the one who doesn't even know its there.

[Frostie]

Thats entirely up to him if he wants to concentrate on the one threat that could be 200km away for all he knows.

Pros and cons with every method.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Jamming in Su/Mig is the closest to stealth flying your gonna get in LOMAC as long as your radar remains inactive there is no way an F15 can tell your range ,any decent pilot wont stay at the same altitude when trying this method so working out range by locking on the strobe is pointless until its getting close. The Su/Mig pilot will know its enemys range through the beroza and can act accordingly to range ,when launch range is near trying to duck 'hopefully' below radar and disengaging jammers is a good tactic that does work well especially in a crowded enviroment .The key is to remain with the upperhand against the F15s superior radar and the best way is effective ECM.

This is the best post on this thread!

[S77th-GOYA]

The F-15 will track your jammer silently, without transmitting. In fact, YOU might be the one who doesn't even know its there.

 

What? Without transmitting? You need some coffee.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

The F-15 will track your jammer silently, without transmitting. In fact, YOU might be the one who doesn't even know its there.

F-15 has to turn his radar ON before locking on HOJ. Therefore, while the lock itself is silent, the F-15 is not. And by looking at our Bereyoza we can estimate the range to that F-15.