Using EOS

[Dunks]

I have been trying to aquire targets silently using just EOS, I practiced offline and seem to have it working.

When using radar you get the two small horisontal lines for freindlys and a single for enemy, that I understand very well, but with just EOS I got a single line and closed in on the target (not locked, just to try and get visual) but decided to switch on radar at the last minuite because I lost the contact, and there were the two friendly lines, I don't think I had a symbol in the MFD to id him.

Could someone please elaborate on the EOS system and its use.

I did a search in the manual and it tells you what the system is, but not how to use it, it's the IFF bit that concerns me.

[nscode]

The thing with EOS and IFF is: there isn't any :) You will have to determine hostality some other way (visually, ask awacs, etc). Automatic IFF works something like a transponder on civil planes. When your radar paints friendly aircraft, it's IFF transponder sends back a secret identification code that you recive and by matching the response you identify it as a friendly.

 

EOS is a passive system. There's no way for the other aircraft to know when you see it. Constantly radiating some IR modulated beacon would give you IFF, but also nicely announce it's presence to everyone (just like using radar jammer when not needed does ;)).

[Jester_159th]

No IFF with EOS at all.

 

It works purely on the target's IR immisions (ie engine heat). If you're not sure of what your target is, you must either visually ID it or use radar to get an overall picture of the situation.

[Dunks]

Wow thanks for the very quick replys.:thumbup:

I kind of like the idea of making them jump as I flick on the radar anyway :)

Hell it's happened to me often enough.

[S77th-konkussion]

I commend you for taking the time to learn about this stuff- and ask when you got stuck. Rep inbound.

[hitman]

Im repping you for a rep point konny.

[Guest Cali]

Reps for everyone!

[hitman]

my last 3 reps came from you cali, and thats funny!

[Force_Feedback]

Finally a new player that actually reads the manual (ok, he knows the keys and did some training tracks). So nice to see a real question instead of "Omg, I can't find the tailhook on the Su-33, help help help"

 

\""/ <--this is my virtual metal hand

[BeetleJuice]

@Dunks: EOS is also useful when enemy SU-25Ts are IR-Jamming. :devil:

[169th_Dredd]

You can still IFF with EOS if Im not mistaken, or maybe this only applies to Helmet mode..

Have heaters selected(R73/27ET,eg.), lock him in EOS; he wont know he's locked.

 

Press 'I' for radar, and HUD will display 'T' I think it is, which will indicate he's a bandit. He still wont know he's locked.

 

You've just IFF'd the bogey, and if he's friendly, relax that trigger ;)

[bogusheadbox]

Shhhh Don't tell him that.

 

***

You friendly neighbourhood Su-25 pilot.

***

[169th_Dredd]

Shhhh Don't tell him that.

 

***

You friendly neighbourhood Su-25 pilot.

***

 

Least he'll save a friendlies life when he's 1km HOT on the trigger behind a bogey with no initial IFF.

[Yellonet]

You can still IFF with EOS if Im not mistaken, or maybe this only applies to Helmet mode..

Have heaters selected(R73/27ET,eg.), lock him in EOS; he wont know he's locked.

 

Press 'I' for radar, and HUD will display 'T' I think it is, which will indicate he's a bandit. He still wont know he's locked.

 

You've just IFF'd the bogey, and if he's friendly, relax that trigger ;)

Hm... is that a bug, or how does that work? :huh:

[S77th-konkussion]

This was something we tested for hours one night after a new patch, and I can conclude that the test was ...inconclusive. I can't help but think there is something wrong in that area. We got both results- to this day if I lock someone in EOS only- half the time they know it, half the time they don't. Maybe it has something to do with how you got to EOS- if it was auto- engaged, the warning is there, if you powered it up directly to EOS- it's not. Happened again yesterday- I asked the guy I was training if he had a lock warning- he did. Turned it all off and began again- silence.

 

Seems to me that there should be a warning anytime you activate the radar- period. Especially if you have a thermally locked target and then you turn on radar. But I don't know this for sure.

 

Also- I'm on EOS and I switched to guns- I don't think I got the active radar indication. Doesn't the gunsight use radar? I'll check this again.

[rlogue]

This was something we tested for hours one night after a new patch, and I can conclude that the test was ...inconclusive. I can't help but think there is something wrong in that area. We got both results- to this day if I lock someone in EOS only- half the time they know it, half the time they don't. Maybe it has something to do with how you got to EOS- if it was auto- engaged, the warning is there, if you powered it up directly to EOS- it's not. Happened again yesterday- I asked the guy I was training if he had a lock warning- he did. Turned it all off and began again- silence.

 

Seems to me that there should be a warning anytime you activate the radar- period. Especially if you have a thermally locked target and then you turn on radar. But I don't know this for sure.

 

Also- I'm on EOS and I switched to guns- I don't think I got the active radar indication. Doesn't the gunsight use radar? I'll check this again.

 

 

I would guess that if you lock a target with EOS but have a radar missile selected, you will be transmitting and detected. I don't know anything about it .. but that would make some sense. IR won't guide a radar guided missile for sure.

[nscode]

This was something we tested for hours one night after a new patch, and I can conclude that the test was ...inconclusive. I can't help but think there is something wrong in that area. We got both results- to this day if I lock someone in EOS only- half the time they know it, half the time they don't. Maybe it has something to do with how you got to EOS- if it was auto- engaged, the warning is there, if you powered it up directly to EOS- it's not. Happened again yesterday- I asked the guy I was training if he had a lock warning- he did. Turned it all off and began again- silence.

 

Seems to me that there should be a warning anytime you activate the radar- period. Especially if you have a thermally locked target and then you turn on radar. But I don't know this for sure.

 

Also- I'm on EOS and I switched to guns- I don't think I got the active radar indication. Doesn't the gunsight use radar? I'll check this again.

 

 

Try turning radar off before going to EOS.

 

Gunsight uses laser range finder.

[Dunks]

@Dunks: EOS is also useful when enemy SU-25Ts are IR-Jamming. :devil:

 

Hehe! never thought of that, nice :thumbup:

[Chandawg]

You can still IFF with EOS if Im not mistaken, or maybe this only applies to Helmet mode..

Have heaters selected(R73/27ET,eg.), lock him in EOS; he wont know he's locked.

 

Press 'I' for radar, and HUD will display 'T' I think it is, which will indicate he's a bandit. He still wont know he's locked.

 

You've just IFF'd the bogey, and if he's friendly, relax that trigger ;)

 

The "T" in the HUD stands for Thermal. Not Friendly. It is an indication that you are in EOS mode.

[169th_Dredd]

The "T" in the HUD stands for Thermal. Not Friendly. It is an indication that you are in EOS mode.

 

Yes my mistake. I believe its 'C' to indicate it is Friendly in Russian HUD.

My short term memory aint that great :P

[ARM505]

Hey, thanks for the reminder! I've been meaning to ask: what does the IR jammer in the -T do to the EOS? Could you elaborate?

[Chandawg]

The only indication that I know of in the HUD for Friendly or Foe is The single or Double lines, and an "N" if the contact is Jamming indicated friendly, but, you only get that if you are pretty close, so not always a good Idea to fire just cause you don't have the "N".

[zare]

Hmm...in Su27, you normally select an appropriate HUD mode, then an scanning choice - "normal" radar, (eg. pulse doppler) or IRST. Only one at a time can be active. If you enter scan mode, activate the radar, then turn on IRST, beam is disengaged. If you activate the radar again, IRST scanning is off and...you get the point.

 

So, there is no way that IRST lock-on can alert the enemy, also considering it's passive nature. The only thing that can alert your adversary is launch of an missile. If it's a radar-equipped projectile with passive or active scanning, the missile's beams will trigger his RWR upon launch. Considering that best scenario for IRST usage is when you are looking at his engines, and that no LOMAC aircraft carries rear-facing radar, you are pretty much stealth, close in hard visual range, and fire infrared R-73 (in most missions you aren't equipped with R-27T). He won't know what hit him...of course, if he has AWACS datalink, he could see you on his HDD, but chances of your stick-up are still high, because his RWR won't beep, and the RWR tends to alert fare more efficiently than an icon on a green LCD. If he sees you, you'll know by his manuevers. If you're few seconds away from him and you have speed, just wait and match trajectory until you get launch autorization. If he is like to outmanuever you, switch and fire normal missile, it'll at least get him to lose a few angles. Then it's SCHLEM time :)

 

That's my view on the EOS. Things i've done dozen times. So i just don't see how an IRST lock can alert somebody. Also, no LOMAC aircraft carries IMLW (infrared missile launch warning) system. (Does any production aircraft carry this kind of equipment?) And of course, you dont get IFF, because heat doesn't carry encrypted information ;)

[nscode]

All AI do :D

[Guest Cali]

Hmm...in Su27, you normally select an appropriate HUD mode, then an scanning choice - "normal" radar, (eg. pulse doppler) or IRST. Only one at a time can be active. If you enter scan mode, activate the radar, then turn on IRST, beam is disengaged. If you activate the radar again, IRST scanning is off and...you get the point.

 

So, there is no way that IRST lock-on can alert the enemy, also considering it's passive nature. The only thing that can alert your adversary is launch of an missile. If it's a radar-equipped projectile with passive or active scanning, the missile's beams will trigger his RWR upon launch. Considering that best scenario for IRST usage is when you are looking at his engines, and that no LOMAC aircraft carries rear-facing radar, you are pretty much stealth, close in hard visual range, and fire infrared R-73 (in most missions you aren't equipped with R-27T). He won't know what hit him...of course, if he has AWACS datalink, he could see you on his HDD, but chances of your stick-up are still high, because his RWR won't beep, and the RWR tends to alert fare more efficiently than an icon on a green LCD. If he sees you, you'll know by his manuevers. If you're few seconds away from him and you have speed, just wait and match trajectory until you get launch autorization. If he is like to outmanuever you, switch and fire normal missile, it'll at least get him to lose a few angles. Then it's SCHLEM time

 

That's my view on the EOS. Things i've done dozen times. So i just don't see how an IRST lock can alert somebody. Also, no LOMAC aircraft carries IMLW (infrared missile launch warning) system. (Does any production aircraft carry this kind of equipment?) And of course, you dont get IFF, because heat doesn't carry encrypted information.

 

zare, do you fly single player or multiplayer? That might why things work perfectly in your world.

 

This was something we tested for hours one night after a new patch, and I can conclude that the test was ...inconclusive. I can't help but think there is something wrong in that area. We got both results- to this day if I lock someone in EOS only- half the time they know it, half the time they don't. Maybe it has something to do with how you got to EOS- if it was auto- engaged, the warning is there, if you powered it up directly to EOS- it's not. Happened again yesterday- I asked the guy I was training if he had a lock warning- he did. Turned it all off and began again- silence.

 

Seems to me that there should be a warning anytime you activate the radar- period. Especially if you have a thermally locked target and then you turn on radar. But I don't know this for sure.

 

Also- I'm on EOS and I switched to guns- I don't think I got the active radar indication. Doesn't the gunsight use radar? I'll check this again.

 

I did the same thing 2 days ago, locked a friendly in EOS and he got a lock tone (we were both on teamspeak). So I turned EOS off, turned radar on and then back off. Turned EOS back on and he still got a tone :hmm: Switched to NAV mode then back to A2A and turned EOS on locked him and he didn't get the tone :dunno:. That doesn't seem correct does?