Vive Issues

[Gman109]

Haven't hooked up the Rift yet, and I'm trying to figure out the Vive with DCS first.

 

I have settings for Pixels at 2.5 in game, and copied the settings I saw in another thread for the rest of the vid settings. Flying the SU27 instant action FC3 missions, it's not bad, seems to work-ish, but the F15C, either instant action or single missions, the cockpit is really really fubar - as soon as I turn my head it's a black wall to either side 1/2 the time, the poof, it'll kind of work, and I can look around, then it's back to the black wall with squiggly lines here and there. Plus, keeping the F15c forward view is impossible to be centered, I look and press the kp5 to center it, and it's like it's working backwards, and moves me further to that opposite side instead of centering. Very odd. Yet the SU27 seems to be ok. The A10 is kinda wonky too. Resolution is pretty awful if you ask me, doesn't look good AT ALL set at 2.5 with my system, really pixely IMO.

 

I hope the Rift is a better experience than this, as IMO it sucks for the $ so far. I tried doing that notepad hack for the pixel density render 2.5, but my steam.vr file looked a lot different than the one in the example, and I"m not sure where to put the extra 2.5 pixel density line.

 

Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong?

Edited July 15, 2016 by Gman109

[DBO]

Pushing super sampling to 2.5 is probably a bit too ambitious. Try going back to below 2 and set options as per this post:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2800507&postcount=1101

 

You've similar specs to my rig - I've got SS set to 1.7 at the moment and not having any of those issues. Although I'm getting some reprojection in dense areas, overall it's running pretty good.

[Gman109]

Tried that already, set it back to 1.5, and tried 1.7, the F15 cockpit is still a disaster, the headset is tracking fine in other stuff, and like I said the Su27 seems to work properly. Is there something in the F15 settings I have wrong?

[DBO]

What driver version have you got running? 368.69 was cactus due to the broken boost. I haven't upgraded to 368.81 yet - going to try that this weekend.

[tkairshows]

I had both. Vive was unplayable for me (resolution/judder) The headset stopped working after 10 day and it was returned -huge ordeal!

 

For DCS the Rift is great, especially with the zoom feature.

 

Other room scale games the Vive with the controllers kicks the Rifts butt. Awesome experience - even my girlfriend who NEVER plays games is asking when we are going to get another Vive.

[average_pilot]

The F-15 doesn't work for me neither. Very low fps with it, what seems to be your problem with it too reading your description.

 

The pixel density slider in the UI doesn't work for the vive.

 

Remember, resolution will be low no matter what. High values of pixel density helps enormously with the clarity of the image though, but I'm beginning to think that people who can't notice it it's because they are not doing it correctly for whatever reason, or being new to VR they are using high pixel density values from the start without having get accustomed to the lower resolution VR.

 

The Rift will give you a slightly clearer image by default. You made the right choice: both headsets :D

[vicx]

Yarp to what AP said.

 

Gman, Yknow that setting in the Vive text file is a MULTIPLIER. So setting it to 2.5 will try and multiply the default DCS value for the Vive. So you probably trying to render 5K per eye. AINT NO VIDEO CARD GONNA DO THAT. :animals_bunny:

 

DCS probably just rejects the values for being out of range, cause they don't want to crash their own engine.

[Gman109]

Then why are so many others posting that they are putting 2.5 in that file, and that it's "so amazing" and greatly improves the Vive? I didn't know that the slider was for the Rift only, that's good intel.

[vicx]

I don't know Gman. But I took a look at the link DBO posted and I detected a faint whiff.

 

Anti-aliasing in that screen shot is set to 16xQ. I mean 16xQ is a decent AA mode so of course things will look better with that on.

 

Side note: if 16xQ refers to a 16xQCSAA mode then 8xMSAA is probably the higher quality mode for VR. Valves advice is to use 8xMSAA and that is what they try and maintain in The Lab.

 

Anyway does changing the values for renderTargetMultiplier in steamvr.vrsettings make the picture look better or is it just 16xQ working sub-optimally but still looking better than vanilla. Try setting the AA in DCS to OFF and test different renderTargetMultiplier settings and you tell me.

 

If you can see a difference maybe there is one ... but I know that LOTS of VR apps don't even ask for the value of the renderTargetMultiplier setting let alone use it. Does the DCS engine use the setting ... hell if I know. I'ma wait for the slider to support Vive and worry about other things.

[Vivoune]

Still keep in mind that whether the Rift or the Vive, whether Pixel density slider at 1 or 2.5, it will still be low resolution, very 'pixely' and not even close to any 2D screen.

 

Some people don't mind it and would never go back to 2D screens, others cannot stand the low resolution and go back to 2D screens completely or only for competitive sessions.

 

Personally I love my VR headset but I still go back to my 1440p screen when the image clarity is necessary for the mission. The immersion is absolutely subpar in comparison but the image clarity in current VR gen is simply too detrimental to some scenarios.

 

It's odd that you have good results in the Su-27 and not the F-15 though. It could be the F-15 is more resource intensive and sends your system over the stability threshold.

 

Try playing with everything on low with the density slider to 1 and see if there are still issues with the F-15. I'd disable your SLI setup too, SLI has never been a healthy testing bed.

Edited July 16, 2016 by Vivoune

[vicx]

Vivoune, Density Slider doesn't work for the Vive. ED hasn't enabled supersampling for DCS ... yet. I wouldn't suggest it as solution for Vive users unless you want them to imagine the benefits ... which I think some people have been doing :)

 

Still I did test the technique that some people have been claiming works to enable supersampling for the Vive. You can modify "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\config\steamvr.vrsettings" to add the line "renderTargetMultiplier" : a number . And I was probably wrong to say that this setting is NOT used by DCS.

 

Changing that value smashed my GPU perfomance and I think the picture did look marginally better BUT I HATE making claims that can't be backed up with hard evidence. Myhbusters would say technique is "Plausible".

 

What you said about the resulting image is true that it will still look pixely but this can be mitigated by a small amount of FXAA/MSAA. Valve actually has a hierachy of settings that they think balances a good picture and good perf. They use it for AUTOMATIC quality adjustment in The LAB which is why everyone thinks the LAB looks awesome.

 

So Valve think that the most important thing for perceived sharpness and clarity is hitting and maintaining 90fps. There is a known temporal AA effect you get from micro-movements of your head at 90fps that makes text easier to read. It REALLY does works.

 

Still Valve ALSO advocate for at least 4xAA at ALL times and if you can spare it then 8xAA.

 

And then if you still have some GPU headroom use Supersampling.

 

So the problem with giving people a Supersampling setting is that they think it some kind of magic button ... but really it's just for people who have SICK amounts of GPU idling fter turning everything else up.

[Vivoune]

I wasn't talking about Vive specifically, I thought I wrote "whether the Rift or the Vive, whether Pixel density slider at 1 or 2.5 [...]". ;)

 

I'm merely trying to manage the OP's expectations that might have seemed a tad hopeful in terms of visual clarity and how it quickly gets very GPU intensive for some anti aliasing gains.

[Gman109]

First thing I did when connecting the Vive is yank a 1080 out, not even just disable it, but actually have it sitting on my test bench in this system (I have another 6900k with SLI for monitor games anyway).

 

Adding that 2.5 line to the Steam settings file - no, I didn't see much if any difference with it added or not, with the Vive, looked much the same to me.

[Gman109]

Going to get the Rift going on Monday I think. I CAN read the hud and the gauges with the Vive with my settings, clear enough to read numbers and so forth, no problem.

[vicx]

That is not too bad DE. 2xAA is good value in DCS. It's almsot free.

 

At GDC Valve mentioned 8xAA and a Supersampling factor of 1.6 as their quality targets. It looks like only a 1080 can manage that in DCS. OK so Jar got 1.5 working with a 980 but maybe using some ATW.

 

I think Gman is going to have his choice of settings. If I was him I'd fly with the Rift and run 8xAA, 1.6 Supersampling, and turn some Shadows on (then probably turn them off if I was dropping down)

Edited July 17, 2016 by vicx

[Shabi]

After much trial an error,

I'm fairly much settling on MSAA at 2x and Super Sampling at 1.3,

with the goal at keeping performance at 90fps.

i7-6700k, Zotac 980ti, 64g RAM.

 

That's a very reasonable approach to settings. If you're supersampling the render resolution the headset will shrink it back down, and in effect that's a kind of anti-aliasing. Just like in photoshop where you resize an image to make it smaller and it blurs out some of the sharp/jaggie details instead of 'pixellating' them.

 

In visual effects this is sometimes done when very small & fine details are required, but it's hard to get render sampling settings to play ball, ie when rendering sparks.

[yellow_jacket]

I found Pixel Density 1.5 on my Rift with GTX980 to be an exceptional leap in clarity while still maintaining smooth frame rates with zero judder in any mission. The increase in pixels pushed the CV1 up to clarity that I didn't expect in this gen, I can read everything easily.

 

I tried 2 pixels but noticed that was a little juddery for me.

 

Honestly the pixel density slider is like CV2 is suddenly out.

 

I've seen comments stating that turning pixel density up to 5 makes it even clearer. So it's like the screen really isn't the biggest hurdle, but our hardware is. Wait for the 1080 Titan.

[Vivoune]

I've seen comments stating that turning pixel density up to 5 makes it even clearer. So it's like the screen really isn't the biggest hurdle, but our hardware is. Wait for the 1080 Titan.

 

Super sampling is the most brute force way and least effective way to reduce anti aliasing. That's all it does, anti aliasing, it doesn't improve resolution nor the pixel density of the hardware.

 

It only exists as a very ressource intensive last resort to mitigate the low resolution of current VR screens.

 

A bit like you'd add pepper & salt to a tasteless bland dish, it only helps so much. It's best to have a savorous dish to begin with. ^^

Edited July 19, 2016 by Vivoune

[vicx]

Supersampling 5x is rendering 5400x6000 per eye before downsampling for HMD.

 

:no: ... AINT NO VIDEO CARD GONNA DO THAT.

 

Yah it looks good but there are reasons for using a mix of multi-sampling and supersampling.

 

Main reason is ... AINT NO VIDEO CARD GONNA DO THAT.

Edited July 19, 2016 by vicx