Landing - What am I doing wrong?

[illuzian]

Hey All,

 

Having some issues getting the M2000C down safely, I seem to be getting landings down over 50% of the time but the other times I seem to smash into the runway and wreck my landing gear/plane/pilot.

 

I'm using approach mode, keeping the FPM on the runway as best I can and holding my throttle acceleration chevrons. This seems to keep my speed around 150 all the time.

 

What I'm not sure about is how to handle things when you're close to the runway, how do I adjust my speed and the FPM?

 

Watching my tracks in Tacview I'm noticing consistently on all my failed landings that my vertical speed spikes, I'm not sure how it could be a stall because when I compare my successful tracks my AoA and speed seem about the same. What could I be doing in error that's causing my increased VS and my catastrophic landings?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Voodooflies]

Don't stick to the chevrons and FPM on the very last moments. You gotta kick a bit of throttle and FLARE gently like in every airplanes, extend the airbrakes once you are about to touch and proceed to aerobraking while remaining on the centerline. Tap gently on your brakes in order to put your front wheels on the ground aswell, you can also PULL the stick at the same time in order to smooth the front wheels touch and not smash those on the ground. Apply brakes (the SPAD will do the job) and vacate runway once speed is controlled (less than 43 kts). Precision, dedication and training is the key to master any kind of landings. Hope it helps.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Sacha

[WildBillKelsoe]

Landing - What am I doing wrong?

 

to add to Sacha, you can also use the AoA indexer just to the left of HUD screen.

 

It needs lots of practice.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Coxy_99]

150 is a little slow? I find it falls out the sky hence damage to the gear i normally approach at about 180

[spiddx]

Landing speed depends on your aircraft's weight, hence you look more for the right AoA instead of speed. 150 is perfectly fine for a light plane.

[Grandad]

I have a problem on landing where if I relax pressure on the stick the jet pitches backwards and tail strikes. I'm using about 14.5 AOA right to the moment the mainwheels touch.

Do I need to touch down flatter ?

[diditopgun]

Which DCS version ?

[Frederf]

At 2.5° 150 knot approach your vertical speed should be 4.3-4.4% of your horizontal, 6.5 knot or 663 ft/min. During the conversion from approach to touchdown this rate decreases to a small amount, maybe 50-150 fpm (1-3 fps).

 

You find that FPM between the AOA brackets if you pull hard the FPM drops out the bottom of the brackets. You want to pull weakly enough that the FPM stays in the brackets which means aiming at the threshold or even before to make touchdown happen in the first 500-1000'.

 

Throttle should only be added enough to prevent airspeed decay during the roundout (I won't even call it a flare). The airplane still wants to fly at 14 AOA and you're not really in the reversed control regime where throttle for altitude is the correct move. Plus the single shaft design means it's not the most responsive.

 

Here's the setup:

1. Seat to its maximum raised position.

2. APP mode on.

3. Radar altimeter on, selected height 50'.

3.5. Gear down.

4. Established on approach 2.5-3.0 degree with FPM equal with top of brackets.

5. Aim the FPM at the beginning of the runway where the grass changes to concrete.

6. Move the throttle to keep the acceleration carets (and thus FPM) equal with the top mark of the brackets.

7. Wait for the 50' radar altitude to appear in the bottom of the HUD.

8. Stop manipulating the throttle and pull to displace the FPM-carets to the middle to bottom of the brackets (not more).

9. When the radar altimeter says 10-20' look instead to place the top of the FPM circle on the horizon and gently reduce power to continue the FPM to the lower bracket marks.

10. Touchdown will occur at a radar altitude of ~1' and at a rate which can be counted aloud "five, four, three, two..."

 

If you run into the ground, pull harder earlier. If your FPM doesn't reach the bottom of the bracket by touchdown reduce power, especially in the latter half. If the FPM falls out the bottom of the brackets, pull more gently and/or keep power on later. At no point before touchdown should the FPM leave the brackets. Start at the top marks, touchdown at the lower marks.

 

The 50' reaction height should be enough.

[illuzian]

I have a problem on landing where if I relax pressure on the stick the jet pitches backwards and tail strikes. I'm using about 14.5 AOA right to the moment the mainwheels touch.

Do I need to touch down flatter ?

 

Hi Grandad, just been trying to figure out what I've been doing wrong here as well and I've just watched the in game track instead of Tacview and noticed when I hit the ground it's not actually my gear buckling but my exhaust catches on fire. Do you find in some cases this happens and in others it doesn't? I watched the track closely and the tail doesn't even seem to be impacting, is this what's happened to you?

[Davee]

Hi Grandad, just been trying to figure out what I've been doing wrong here as well and I've just watched the in game track instead of Tacview and noticed when I hit the ground it's not actually my gear buckling but my exhaust catches on fire. Do you find in some cases this happens and in others it doesn't? I watched the track closely and the tail doesn't even seem to be impacting, is this what's happened to you?

 

If you hit a little hard with a center tank it will come off and tumble down the runway.

 

I still think the landing profile is a little off. With everything on the numbers (including on the glideslope) it should land without having to make any changes to the 14.0 degree AOA (no "flair" required). Right now, it still requires some form of flair by either throttle or FPM pulled to the end of the runway to prevent damage. Still needs a tweak as I think what we are doing now is making adjustments to correct this issue.

[illuzian]

If you hit a little hard with a center tank it will come off and tumble down the runway.

 

I still think the landing profile is a little off. With everything on the numbers (including on the glideslope) it should land without having to make any changes to the 14.0 degree AOA (no "flair" required). Right now, it still requires some form of flair by either throttle or FPM pulled to the end of the runway to prevent damage. Still needs a tweak as I think what we are doing now is making adjustments to correct this issue.

 

I'm trying touch and goes on the Instant Action mission(edited to remove the two other Mirages that take off) which has no externals at all and I've just tested flairing hard on landing contrary to what I was thinking at 14 AoA and what is indicated by the manual and this seems to help I'll need to do more touch and goes but yeah, surprised a flair is needed. I think Frederf's advice was sound.

[Grandad]

Hi Grandad, just been trying to figure out what I've been doing wrong here as well and I've just watched the in game track instead of Tacview and noticed when I hit the ground it's not actually my gear buckling but my exhaust catches on fire. Do you find in some cases this happens and in others it doesn't? I watched the track closely and the tail doesn't even seem to be impacting, is this what's happened to you?

 

Pretty much. I need to do a lot more " circuits and bumps " ( as my ex-RAF uncle described them ) to figure out what is happening....

 

I'm really pleased by the way this module is shaping up, the guys behind it have a real work ethic, I'm glad I put my trust in them and bought it. OK, the Mirage doesn't really have an opponent to fight with on level terms - the FC3 jets have unrealistic sensors and the Mig 21 belongs to an older generation of fighters. But then that's the DCS way :smilewink:

[Frederf]

I have a problem on landing where if I relax pressure on the stick the jet pitches backwards and tail strikes. I'm using about 14.5 AOA right to the moment the mainwheels touch.

Do I need to touch down flatter ?

 

That's just odd behavior that RAZBAM will sort out. It's recommended to bring the nose wheel down without delay after touchdown until then.