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New damage model


bart

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But they don't leak, so its not that big of a deal.

 

Sorry Solty, but thats not true...you would know if you had the 109...since like two patches, radiators do indeed leak, and once that happens, temps rise quickly and all you can do is, pull the rad-shut-off handles and try to limp home with very low engine settings...the thing is, there is still a bug with what is represented for others and what you see in your own aircraft...it happens quite often that others dont see you leaking water while indeed you are...


Edited by 9./JG27 DavidRed
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  • 4 months later...

Quick Recap below from this thread.

 

I posted this in the other ww2 thread while back and it would be good to see some more info about it.:thumbup:

 

When we talking about model itself the new model is an addition to current one. So the main difference in number of components and accuracy of their positions. Plus improvements in damage states and their spread (for example fire) from one component to another.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=144524&d=1468917291

attachment.php?attachmentid=144525&d=1468917291

 

Some answers:

- yes, we have few men from old Il-2 team ))

- old P-51B could be there, but later;

- new DM has no affect on cockpit;

- bombers are in production as an AI planes (for the moment);

- LN mentioned their plans by themselves, better to ask them directly;

- DM is a brand new system which could be applied to any unit in the game.

 

Are there any details more, to share with us?

 

Say, plans to:

a) simulate penetration of several modules by a single projectile

b) introduce altered impact behavior, depended on the load (HE/AP) => surface/submerged explosions, ricochets where applicable

c) internal/external fuel tank flame bursts or varied leakage rates depended on hits number/their nature

d) hydraulic fails - drop out chassis, etc

e) stun effects on the pilot (HE "close call" impact)

f) realistic dynamics for damaged planes, including their rapid re-balancing due to pierced tanks/any massive parts departed. Inability to withstand high Gs for their frame any more (where it's appropriate)

g) inflammation that gradually affects plane

 

A digression: I'm not poking developers to do this right from the beginning in some stealthy manner - just wonder what depth are you willing to take?

 

a) Yes, including true calculation of armour-piercing ability (at least for the first 1-2 walls where experimental results are available to extend for the model). Fragmentation field patterns, etc...

b) yes

c) yes

d) hydrolics can be damaged even now, but it will work regarding its design for each plane - so there will be no undercarriage drop if the up-locks are mechanically driven. Possibly, with the new DM hydrolics will get more detailed damages, say, the pump, the left gear tubing, etc...

e) do not know yet

f) all these features work now. If the main spar is damaged - yes it will lower max G-load.

g) I remember that Racoon answered positive.

 

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One important question is if the new DM could be incorporated to the AI also.

 

Is badly needed. They fly with SFM making them flying at maximum perfomance all the time without any shortcoming, and if we add simplified DM, well, everybody have seen this AI planes smoking like crazy flying like nothing happened.

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One important question is if the new DM could be incorporated to the AI also.

 

Is badly needed. They fly with SFM making them flying at maximum perfomance all the time without any shortcoming, and if we add simplified DM, well, everybody have seen this AI planes smoking like crazy flying like nothing happened.

 

+1000000. I think the problem is a lot more pronounced when it comes to the AI.

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+1000000. I think the problem is a lot more pronounced when it comes to the AI.

 

 

 

Absolutely.

Whilst sometimes frustrating, the human v human damage is at least tolerable.

The AI damage system, conversely, is nonsensical.

 

If we want to have immersive multiplayer environments when normandy comes out, we're going to need to have AI formations. If every time we fly against the AI we have to suspend our disbelief, we're soon going to get frustrated and wander off to other sims. . .

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One important question is if the new DM could be incorporated to the AI also.

 

I very much doubt that will be possible, because it would require the AI to use the advanced systems modeling and that would mean, your computer (or the server in MP) would have to process all these numerous variables for all AI aircraft besides the own aircraft. An acceptable performance seems impossible for me under those circumstances. :(

 

I would love to be proven wrong though.

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I very much doubt that will be possible, because it would require the AI to use the advanced systems modeling and that would mean, your computer (or the server in MP) would have to process all these numerous variables for all AI aircraft besides the own aircraft. An acceptable performance seems impossible for me under those circumstances. :(

 

I would love to be proven wrong though.

 

Perhaps not going off this line from Racoon long ago.

 

When we talking about model itself the new model is an addition to current one. So the main difference in number of components and accuracy of their positions. Plus improvements in damage states and their spread (for example fire) from one component to another.

 

This damage model looks like it could attach itself somehow perhaps to the AI differently seeing its a separate entity, we can only hope.:)

It would need affect the AI logic I guess because the AI is only using a SFM etc.

 

Some answers:

- yes, we have few men from old Il-2 team ))

- old P-51B could be there, but later;

- new DM has no affect on cockpit;

- bombers are in production as an AI planes (for the moment);

- LN mentioned their plans by themselves, better to ask them directly;

- DM is a brand new system which could be applied to any unit in the game.

 

Does this line mean AI too:)

-


Edited by David OC

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I very much doubt that will be possible, because it would require the AI to use the advanced systems modeling and that would mean, your computer (or the server in MP) would have to process all these numerous variables for all AI aircraft besides the own aircraft. An acceptable performance seems impossible for me under those circumstances. :(

I would love to be proven wrong though.

 

 

 

From what I gather, the new Advanced DM for humans will be an improvement on the current one; The current Human-DM is better than the A.I. "simple DM".

 

 

So, mabe:

1. The AI can be given the existing "human DM"

2. The old "simple DM" can be dropped completely

3. Human players get the new "advanced DM"

 

 

That would at least be a step forward without loading up the AI with the full new advanced DM...

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I have a separate report in for the AI damage and it is being looked into by ED along side the player damage.

 

When ED have news on it they will share it, no ETA currently

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I have a separate report in for the AI damage and it is being looked into by ED along side the player damage.

 

When ED have news on it they will share it, no ETA currently

 

This seems to confirm what I was trying to say: The player damage model and the AI damage model are two different things. The damage model works with the systems modeling and while player aircraft use the advanced systems modeling the AI aircraft only use a simple system. That means that the player damage model (neither the current one nor the new one) can just be applied to AI aircraft.

 

But as BIGNEWY said: They're looking into improving AI damage as well, along side player damage.

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We only can wait and Hope for any AI improvement. The SFM + SDM actual combo for the AI is killing any WWII fight. Between humans the fight is improving nicely but against AI, a very important part of the sim, is a step backwards.

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We only can wait and Hope for any AI improvement. The SFM + SDM actual combo for the AI is killing any WWII fight. Between humans the fight is improving nicely but against AI, a very important part of the sim, is a step backwards.

 

It would indeed be a huge step forward if we would get an advanced damage model for the AI, but that's not really possible. At least not on the same level as it is for player aircraft, because it demands a lot of processing power and doing that for more than just one aircraft sucks up performance pretty fast.

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For me is enough if ED is able to improve AI damage model in any way. The only things i really want is no more triple smoking trailer on a AI fighter full of holes of fist size all around the fuselage and still flying at máximum perfomance outclimbing, outrolling, outdiving faster than you.

 

I know its a Flight and damage model issue and i know its not possible to have the same as human models but the actual situation is an inmersion murderer.


Edited by Esac_mirmidon

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It would indeed be a huge step forward if we would get an advanced damage model for the AI, but that's not really possible. At least not on the same level as it is for player aircraft, because it demands a lot of processing power and doing that for more than just one aircraft sucks up performance pretty fast.

 

My processor never uses more than 50% of it's potential when running DCS. Lots of computing power is still available. :smartass:

 

For me is enough if ED is able to improve AI damage model in any way. ...

 

I don't need a super accurate dm, believable is enough for me.


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  • 3 weeks later...

Now that Normandy is out I have been wondering what the plans for the new damage model are.

 

Let me start by sharing my first experience on the Normandy map, and end with a few questions.

 

My first outing in France was a simple flyout in the P-51's instant action. I was up against 2 K-4s, and the fight was intense. After​ my wingman was killed almost instantly I was caught in a 2 vs 1 situation. After some energy fighting, I was able to pull a high angle deflection shot on one bogey. I scored hits all over him. He began streaming from both wings, and engine smoking black. He looked effectively destroyed. I turned to deal with the second bandit who now had gained enough energy to out climb me. I began a turn fight. Just as I was getting the better of this second bandit the damaged 109 blew my left wing off. I bailed out to safety.

 

The FM is so good, and feels so real in DCS. The chase is so exciting. The jockeying for position is phenomenal, but the illusion ends as soon as the guns start firing. I saw in the log, and in that burst I scored 70 hits on that 109, and although his engine was crippled he was flying just as fine as before.

 

My questions on this issue are,

A. When should we expect to see an update for the damage model? Weeks? Months?

B. What is proposed for AI specifically. Being that bombers, the B-17 specifically, are going to be a big part of many mission created for Normandy, and in it's current state much is left to be desired.

C. Will the updates be rolled out as they are completed, or is it going to be rolled out as a set package all at once?

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C. Will the updates be rolled out as they are completed, or is it going to be rolled out as a set package all at once?

 

I can sort of answer that. I can't be bothered to find the exact quote, but Racoon (ED staff) has previously said the plan was to roll out the WWII bird's new DMs in one go.

 

Everything is subject to change, so whether or not it comes to pass is another matter, but it's certainly the sensible approach due to the effect it'll have on dogfighting.

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Everything is subject to change, so whether or not it comes to pass is another matter, but it's certainly the sensible approach due to the effect it'll have on dogfighting.

 

I appreciate the reply. It would be a little one sided for one aircraft to have the new damage model, but not others. It makes sense in that regard.

Fire only at close range, and only when your opponent is properly in your sights.

 

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Agreed that any DM improvements are very welcome. I hate seeing smoking and trailing AI fighters still functioning as if nothing happened. I even shot an aileron off of a 109 and he kept flying like he did before...

 

Is there any idea on when we will see the new DMs? Racoon? Wags?

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Agreed that any DM improvements are very welcome. I hate seeing smoking and trailing AI fighters still functioning as if nothing happened. I even shot an aileron off of a 109 and he kept flying like he did before...

 

Is there any idea on when we will see the new DMs? Racoon? Wags?

+1

 

I assumed they would be around the same time as Normandy since they are working on them since 2012. I was wrong.

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+1

 

I assumed they would be around the same time as Normandy since they are working on them since 2012. I was wrong.

 

Assumption is the mother of all :)

 

When ED are ready they will let us know, it is not a simple task so the lead time will be longer

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