MIG 29 HDD HUD question

[DragonFlySlayer]

In DCS worlds I have been trying to figure out how to change the information presented in the MIG 29S's HDD so it is not the same as the HUD! For the life of me I can't figure out how to change the information so I can see jets and their position and navigation like we can in the SU27 and 33 HDD. Is this the way the MIG is or how can I change the mode of the HDD in the MIG so it is not always the same information as my HUD? I have been reading/ searching and trying to find something and looking at Key cards pdf I have downloaded in order to try and find out if there is a way to change that. In my MIG in all three DCS worlds the HUD is the same as the HDD and I cannot change the HDD to show navigation and other aircraft positions. In the SU27 and 33 it is different but not the MIG. Can someone help educate me?:joystick:

[probad]

a little searching on the forums will reveal many people asking and being answered that irl the mig-29 only has hud repeater function.

 

the most recent one sits just a few threads below yours.

Edited July 27, 2016 by probad

[Oceandar]

MiG's HDD is acting as HUD repeater. Sorry to say that but they say its realistic. Maybe its as back up in case HUD fails but for me it still kinda lame....

 

Gam Zeh Ya'avor - King Salomon

[Andrew-76]

Well it is not completly true. There are a lots of versions of this plane across the world and some were upgraded in many ways to stay competetive in modern era. Also some Mig-29's from countries previously in SSSR now in NATO have their Mig-29's upgraded to meet NATO standards. Some Mig-29's have even colored multifunction display. For example this is Polish (previously German) Mig-29. Does it look like a simple repeater?

 

 

You can find more examples across the internet in pictures and even videos. It is true though that most of them propably have only simple repeater. But still approach of developers is quite silly. "Hey, they had only repeater when they left factory so we will keep that and ignore any later upgrades". Well ok, but you just took of the plane's main navigation tool and don't care about compensation. In fact Mig-29 is only plane from FC3 where you have no way to find on which waypoint your navigation is currently pointing on. Even in Su-25 there is a way via stupid diod panel which can show you only first 3 waypoints but you can still count to others with it's help. In Mig-29 you have literally no way at this moment. And I really doubt it is realistically accurate.

 

Strange is, developpers completly ignoring other in my opinion more important stuff, f.e. who can actually fly this plane. Game offers for Mig-29 from NATO's countries only Germany. What the...? Germany have no Mig-29 from 2002. They sold them to Poland. And yet, you can not fly as Polish Mig-29. Slovakia have also Mig-29s. You also can not fly it for this country. But you can pick Mirage2000. Well guess what, they never had any. So please.... This situation is really a shame. This plane deserves better!

Edited July 29, 2016 by Andrew-76

[Frostie]

 

You can find more examples across the internet in pictures and even videos. It is true though that most of them propably have only simple repeater. But still approach of developers is quite silly. "Hey, they had only repeater when they left factory so we will keep that and ignore any later upgrades". Well ok, but you just took of the plane's main navigation tool and don't care about compensation. In fact Mig-29 is only plane from FC3 where you have no way to find on which waypoint your navigation is currently pointing on. Even in Su-25 there is a way via stupid diod panel which can show you only first 3 waypoints but you can still count to others with it's help. In Mig-29 you have literally no way at this moment. And I really doubt it is realistically accurate.

 

Strange is, developpers completly ignoring other in my opinion more important stuff, f.e. who can actually fly this plane. Game offers for Mig-29 from NATO's countries only Germany. What the...? Germany have no Mig-29 from 2002. They sold them to Poland. And yet, you can not fly as Polish Mig-29. Slovakia have also Mig-29s. You also can not fly it for this country. But you can pick Mirage2000. Well guess what, they never had any. So please.... This situation is really a shame. This plane deserves better!

What you have to realise is that the aircraft in FC3 have been there since LOMAC (2003) and some including the MiG are also from the Flanker series before that. The MiG-29 is inline to get some love soon but don't expect variants to change.

[Oceandar]

True, until some developer do a new 29 version which I'm afraid not in my life time :D, we probably stuck in this 29 version

 

Gam Zeh Ya'avor - King Salomon

[SkateZilla]

The Variant and Block Modeled in Flaming Cliffs 3 only had HUD Repeater on the HDD.

[JunMcKill]

Is logic that DCS only simulates the official version, of course most of the MIG-29 have been upgraded, even the Cuban MIG-29A, have a pad to navigate with GPS and GLONASS.

[Andrew-76]

I understand there can't be all versions of plane available in the game. And I don't mind only repeater in cockpit. What I mind is this:

 

 

Do you recognize the picture? It is from official FC3 manual. Descripsion of cockpit instruments for Mig-29. It is pretty accurate, here is one from real plane:

 

 

On first picture, there is instrument in red circle. You can see it has no official pointer with number. That is because it is not included in "simulator". Meaning the panel is dead in the game. And what is it? You guess right. It's navigation panel. Helping pilot to manage waypoints. Similar to Su-25's. But in Su-25 it does work. In Mig-29 it does not (because in original version of FC3 the HDD had nav mode so they probably didn't want to bother with it). Check offcial FC3 manual for Su-25. Cockpit instruments, numer 20: RSBN panel (short-range navigation). This is what Mig-29 is missing currently.

 

So what ED actually did here is they took navigation from HDD off and said "we are simulating real plane and such plane does not have this". But they forgot they does not simulate other stuff that the plane has. And because of this you can not navigate now in Mig-29 realistically. You cannot do it in any way in fact because you have no control over your waypoints midflight.

 

That is what I do mind. They wanted to do it more realistic but ending in less realistic and ruining the plane for players who like it.

 

So ED please, do it properly or reverse your change. Don't do half work.

Edited July 30, 2016 by Andrew-76

[TheSnark]

You seem to get awfully angry about aircraft that have a very mundane and basic level of simulation. If ED wants to change any of these systems then it's only for a full-sim variant according to their statements.

 

Besides, I don't think it has ever operated in FC3, which is the product you got. It seems strange to demand some fictional functionality to be honest.

[TheFurNinja]

Despite the nav panel not functioning. You can still navigate via HSI, HUD, and landmarks in conjunction with a (hopefully) good briefing. It is how I do it and its how I will continue to do it until they add in the NAV panel.

 

Fly to any of the waypoints, remember the location of the waypoint by comparing briefing with landmarks and you now know which waypoint you are at. This is also assuming the waypoints were actually placed on top of good landmarks and not just over some random locale.

[Andrew-76]

TheSnark

It is not about being angry but about being flustrated. Let me explain. I do not demand any additional functionality, I demand to not be robbed of it. Plane worked well. It was not very accurate. But this HDD is not only thing that is not accurate about it so why change only this? I have no problem with tweaking stuff. Opposite is true. I like they care about planes even in complete/sold product and they try to make them better. But one should do it complexly not randomly and chaotic. Mainly when you are try to achieve as realistic models as possible. Mig-29 is not only official part of FC3 ("FC3 features the F-15C, A-10A, Su-27, Su-33, MiG-29A, MiG-29S, Su-25T, and Su-25." from official FC3 desc @ http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/products/flaming_cliffs/), it is there way longer from Lock On: Modern Air Combat (mby even Flanker 2.5, can't now recall so don't want to lie). And is my favourite aircraft since I first flew it. So when someone ruin it I do dislike it. And I want to be heard because when one don't know about problem one can't fix it. Mby ED just didn't realise RSBN is not functional in Mig-29 and they didn't realise they messed up navigation by correcting HDD. So someone should tell them, right? Instead there are lot of people who just justify it. They say "yes, it's correct now, deal with it". Just because they fly other aircrafts and don't care this one. This flustrate me even more. It is not correct. You have now serious navigation issues that you shouldn't have. Navigation is one of most important system in any aircraft!

 

TheFurNinja

You can use HSI or HUD for navigation. But there is one important problem with both of them. You don't know to what point your instruments are pointing to. For example in Su-27T you have on your HUD number indicator of selected waypoint (like in F-15 or A-10 or probably any other aircraft with HUD). This indicator is missing in Mig-29. Dunno if this is correct or not but it is that way now. In Su-25 (plane with no HUD, only HSI) you have RSBN panel. It is present but not working in Mig-29. So once you fly a while and then got involved in combat and later turn back to nav you are blind. When you want to approach to other then default airfield you have no idea again. Because system cycle between airfields in pre-defined order but you don't even know where you currently are in cycle and have no way how to learn it. Only thing you can do is guessing. Look at distance to the point and direction, look at your position and guess what waypoint/airifeld is propably your aircraft's instruments pointing to. But then you don't need any navigation instruments. You can just pick compass and map and do it like in WW2.

[cro_mig_21]

Guys, the Fulcrum is still wip...be patient

[probad]

You can just pick compass and map and do it like in WW2.

 

is there something wrong with this basic ability that all real pilots have to learn?

[Dudikoff]

Guys, the Fulcrum is still wip...be patient

 

Exactly, the MiG-29's and the Su-33 (from the FC3 lot) are not fully upgraded yet. I'd be surprised if MiG-29's didn't get this waypoint indication implemented like the Su-25 did.

[JunMcKill]

You seem to get awfully angry about aircraft that have a very mundane and basic level of simulation. If ED wants to change any of these systems then it's only for a full-sim variant according to their statements.

 

Besides, I don't think it has ever operated in FC3, which is the product you got. It seems strange to demand some fictional functionality to be honest.

 

You're right, FC3 is a simple way to have lot of aircraft with standard systems model (at least they will have PFM), and any detailed MIG-29 will come as an individual module

[Frostie]

Andrew I understand your problem and as you say ED haven't done MiG pilots a good turn by removing the HDD nav tool and not replacing it with a waypoint number indicator of some sort.

 

But take it easy, the Su25 suffered the same problem and has been seen when ED upgrade FC3 aircraft into single products stuff like this get addressed over time before its release, such as the nav panel on the Su25 with moving switches, the new cockpit on the A-10A, the F-15 received added cockpit features such as moving switches the Su27 also, plus changes to features in the cockpit. I'm sure the MiG will get the same.

[Cmptohocah]

I would somewhat agree in that Mig29 is pretty downgraded at the moment. After the latest update my RWR regarding the range ring and now I even have some strange 'bar' like thing inside the cockpit. It's like someone is trying out their modeling/programming skills and just debugging them using official updates :)

I also enjoy flying the 29 - hopefully it will get fixed.

[Majesco]

In DCS worlds I have been trying to figure out how to change the information presented in the MIG 29S's HDD so it is not the same as the HUD! For the life of me I can't figure out how to change the information so I can see jets and their position and navigation like we can in the SU27 and 33 HDD. Is this the way the MIG is or how can I change the mode of the HDD in the MIG so it is not always the same information as my HUD?

 

The MiG-29 HDD works as HUD repeater, not only in MiG-29 but also in Su-27, Su-33 in real life.

 

Here's the rare video of "Russian Sukhoi Family" on Youtube that you can see how HDD works on a real Su-33. It using Close Air Combat Boresight Mode while searching target in training.

 

Take a look at below video from 2:06 to 2:13

 

[ame]

[/ame]

[Cmptohocah]

It seems that native Su27 has a repeater as well... ouch :doh: . Question is: can it be switched to something else other than repeat mode?

 

[JunMcKill]

It seems that native Su27 has a repeater as well... ouch :doh: . Question is: can it be switched to something else other than repeat mode?

 

In the SU-27S yes (the one simulated by ED), read the manual online of the SU-27SK and you will see all the modes of HDD, and let me tell you the SU-27SK is the export version of the SU-27S who have more features than the export one.

[discwalker]

MiG29S can fire the R-77...

 

...I don't believe that plane can't be able to sync with an AWACS to HDD.

Life / death situation is to choose the most dangerous plane to engage.

Regression is always frustrating!

In a plane can JAM: no indicator for that status! I must ask the enemy or my buddy?

Navigation: nightmare! (Landmarks? Think to nighttime and over continous cloud cover or fog.)

Cobra: unable in DCS!

in real (38:42) 38:52...: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2l3ZijjRVo

((youtube: R2l3ZijjRVo; Vasmadarász - Vári Gyula háromszoros világbajnok, vadászpilóta))

from Maj. Gyula Vári

/ The Su-33 also unable to perform it in the sim :-( /

 

(image source: http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/indian-awacs-moving-forward-on-2-fronts-04855/)

 

Total blindness from sun reflection in DCS: I don't think DCS is realistic in that

overall: :cry:

Edited September 25, 2016 by discwalker
wrongly parsed youtube link from robot

[foxtheancient]

For (not only) fans of Mig-29:

 

MiG-29 Take-off into the future Part 1/2

 

MiG-29 Take-off into the future Part 2/2

 

First part is more about pass development, second part is more about present/future development and carrier version (more interesting one if you ask me but both parts are worth watching on).

 

I am collecting similar interesting documentary movies about interesting aircrafts of past, present and future in

. Feel free to take a look and I am sure you will find something of your taste.

 

Have a nice day!

Edited September 24, 2016 by foxtheancient

[JunMcKill]

For (not only) fans of Mig-29:

 

MiG-29 Take-off into the future Part 1/2

 

MiG-29 Take-off into the future Part 2/2

 

First part is more about pass development, second part is more about present/future development and carrier version (more interesting one if you ask me but both parts are worth watching on).

 

I am collecting similar interesting documentary movies about interesting aircrafts of past, present and future in

. Feel free to take a look and I am sure you will find something of your taste.

 

Have a nice day!

 

Awesome videos, looks like the MIG-29SMT, the OVT and the MIG-35 are magnificient! hope any day a module will arrive for DCS

[Oceandar]

Maybe little bit OT but I find its ironic to see that Eagle Dynamics is based in Russia and they couldn't make Su-27, MiG-29(A) in DCS level. I know I read in this forum some say that Russian Gov forbids ED for doing that but how about KA-50 ? They could make it, couldn't they ?

 

Cheers

 

Gam Zeh Ya'avor - King Salomon