Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 8

[winchesterdelta1]

With all due respect Skipper, I don't think there is any kind of political problem. As Greg said before, it's more or less about new modules being introduced for BlueFor and players want to fly them and not sfm rusty FC3 counterparts.

 

And changing Red vs Blue to Orange vs Green is just too ridiculous, since it won't solve the problem. Hell, we might even come to Carebear's funs versus MLP lovers down this road.

 

It does solve a small problem. This happens in all servers. It's not only a blueforce issue. Blue=West, RED=Russia. This happens unconsciously and by choice. And not only in computer games. It even has been studied that people are like this. And in games like DCS this especially comes forward. You can still have a Soviet coalition or a NATO. But at the moment you change the color from Red to green or any other color people seems to be okay with it and the biased ones mostly don't care anymore on witch side they play suddenly. Then they only choose for aircraft choice or friends playing on a certain side. We only need a simple option in DCS to choose colors to avoid this kind of silly behaviour in a virtual playing field.

 

AND NO IT's NOT A BIG DEAL OR SOMETHING. IT'S JUST SOMETHING WORTH TO LOOK AT. The devil is in the details. and with simple minor changes like this you can steer a crowd to a certain direction. Governments are doing this for ages. Only the other way around to make people polarized.

[T_A]

Don't want to burst your bubble treacle but compared to the Flanker, the Mirage with its flight model, damage model and radar model is more arcade than any other module out there.

 

Obviously you have no clue what your are talking about, you must not have flown the Mirage in a while (or not at all)

[Naughty_17]

the Mirage with its flight model, damage model and radar model is more arcade than any other module out there.

I'm sure that I don't have to remind you that Mighty-29 could survive a direct impact of sidewinder and still continue fight with shredded wings and even w/o electronics and hydraulics.

[Voodooflies]

Don't want to burst your bubble treacle but compared to the Flanker, the Mirage with its flight model, damage model and radar model is more arcade than any other module out there.

 

Mirage is still WIP, I don't get your point Frostie.

 

Hey hey hey.... If it clicks it's more real :lol: ;)

 

Well... Yes, that's how airplanes works on daily basis.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Sacha

[Naughty_17]

Well... Yes, that's how airplanes works on daily basis.

Speaking of "clicking", I wish I could use Saitek Pro Flight panels with M2k some day the same way they works with A10C.

[QuiGon]

Speaking of "clicking", I wish I could use Saitek Pro Flight panels with M2k some day the same way they works with A10C.

 

What's wrong with them? I use them too and they work fine with the M2000.

[Naughty_17]

What's wrong with them? I use them too and they work fine with the M2000.

Huh, I thought that M2k is not yet supported by DCS-BIOS, do you mind to send me config/setup procedure in PM?

 

Thank you

[QuiGon]

Huh, I thought that M2k is not yet supported by DCS-BIOS, do you mind to send me config/setup procedure in PM?

 

Thank you

 

Sorry, my mistake. I read "pedals" :doh:

[*Rage*]

The Mirage is just fantastic.

 

Disable FBW and fly it like a Tie fighter - check.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=171830

 

360 degree radar lock with SARH missile support - check

 

Tank missiles like a pro - check

 

Incredulously maintain the best sustained turn rate of any fighter in game - check.

 

And it can do barrel rolls:) Sure. Much more realistic than FC3.

 

Edit: Yes I have the M2K and we have tested it...

Edited August 23, 2016 by ///Rage

[QuiGon]

The Mirage is just fantastic.

 

Disable FBW and fly it like a Tie fighter - check.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=171830

 

360 degree radar lock with SARH missile support - check

 

Tank missiles like a pro - check

 

Incredulously maintain the best sustained turn rate of any fighter in game - check.

 

And it can do barrel rolls. Sure. Much more realistic than FC3.

 

I see you earned your name :D

 

The 360 radar has been fixed last friday and FBW is not to be turned off except for emergencies.

The damage model needs some work, I admit that, but it's really not that bad as you say. I usally (not always) go down with one hit.

Edited August 23, 2016 by QuiGon

[*Rage*]

I'm still happy the Mirage is included. It's just people think because it has a clicky pit it must be more realistic. It isn't. It flies like an X-wing and turns like a Tie fighter. With a clicky pit:)

[QuiGon]

I'm still happy the Mirage is included. It's just people think because it has a clicky pit it must be more realistic. It isn't. It flies like an X-wing and turns like a Tie fighter. With a clicky pit:)

 

Well, it is the first DCS-aircraft with fly by wire. I have no real life experience with FBW, so I can't judge how realistic it is, but I would assume a somehow "artificial" flight handling when using FBW, which the M2000 vertainly has.

Edited August 23, 2016 by QuiGon

[gregzagk]

Guys... the discussion is not wrong but it's taking place in a wrong place (thread). Not everything is Blue Flag related. We host the missions including these aircraft but we are not Razbam or so.

 

Have you feedback about our mission/event/concept? Ok, but even then, arguing to change things all the time ignoring the part of the players that actually want some features is not the best option.

 

Please make the forum moderators lives easier as they have to monitor discussions that often go off rails here.

Otherwise we have no choice of moving our discussions elsewhere and just post announcements here.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Greg

[QuiGon]

Guys... the discussion is not wrong but it's taking place in a wrong place (thread). Not everything is Blue Flag related. We host the missions including these aircraft but we are not Razbam or so.

 

Have you feedback about our mission/event/concept? Ok, but even then, arguing to change things all the time ignoring the part of the players that actually want some features is not the best option.

 

Please make the forum moderators lives easier as they have to monitor discussions that often go off rails here.

Otherwise we have no choice of moving our discussions elsewhere and just post announcements here.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Greg

 

You're right, sorry for that :music_whistling:

[microvax]

The Mirage is just fantastic.

 

Disable FBW and fly it like a Tie fighter - check.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=171830

 

360 degree radar lock with SARH missile support - check

 

Tank missiles like a pro - check

 

Incredulously maintain the best sustained turn rate of any fighter in game - check.

 

And it can do barrel rolls:) Sure. Much more realistic than FC3.

 

Edit: Yes I have the M2K and we have tested it...

 

I love that when people claim you can disable the FBW. Its like saying "I have no Idea what the systems in this plane do, they must be broken".

 

If you honestly could disable the FBW, the plane would instantly stop maneuvering.

 

What you CAN do is putting FIXED gain parameters for the controll surface actuations in case your FBW computer fails and cant calculate load based parameters.

 

And there was a patch since the Video you linked which is exactly supposed to improve performance with fixed FBW gain parameters.

 

Radar gimball limits have been fixed.

 

As said before you die more then 90% of the time in a single hit, the maybee 10% you are at best able to rtb.

 

About best sustained turn, I do not know which speeds you are talking about, at low speeds [sub200kts] I was turning with a f15 on the deck for literally 40 seconds in training. And there was no substantial gain. The instant rate is surpreme, overall, but the sustained is pretty normal/not stellar at low speeds unless the f15 is a stellar sustained turner below 200kts, then obviously it is.

 

Dunno about high speeds though, but at high speeds you can just burn your energy because 99% of pilots are just going to burn their energy as well no matter what frame they are in.

Given that you need little AOA with a delta at high speed to increase the lift quite a bit, I can imagine the sustained turn is actually good at high speed.

 

Old FM files got patched in last friday, so yeah atm there is situations where the FM got less realistic due to that, and overall I have no problem to agree that the Mirage is WIP and far from perfect.

 

But I just honestly get triggered hardcore level when people say "disable FBW" and bring up issues of a WIP module which are literally weeks old. :D

 

I cant tell you what module is closer to the real world performance, I simply do not know, from an aerodynamic standpoint I see no reason why either shall be massively flawed.

But the fidelity of the mirage is obviously higher then the su27.

 

Tie fighters turn bad btw, according to canon, they are a low cost spacecraft. :D

 

 

Edit: didnt see gregs post, will cease fire on any module discussion.

[*Rage*]

Sorry Greg!

 

Activity seems a little less this testing round. Hopefully it'll pick up once it's officially underway. I really think this could be one of the most fun rounds:)

[Whisper]

The Mirage is just fantastic.

 

Disable FBW and fly it like a Tie fighter - check.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=171830

 

360 degree radar lock with SARH missile support - check

 

Tank missiles like a pro - check

 

Incredulously maintain the best sustained turn rate of any fighter in game - check.

 

And it can do barrel rolls:) Sure. Much more realistic than FC3.

 

Edit: Yes I have the M2K and we have tested it...

 

Obviously not the latest incarnation

[gregzagk]

Activity seems a little less this testing round. Hopefully it'll pick up once it's officially underway. I really think this could be one of the most fun rounds:)

 

Activity is always down during testing and after 17 days of fighting it seems normal. But even if we won't get the numbers like the previous rounds or will have a shorter round it will still be a nice experience to the ones that like this concept.

 

Case Blue is still the best concept for some guys even if it was not so popular.

Let's see what we will get :)

 

Greg

[BodyOrgan]

Activity is always down during testing and after 17 days of fighting it seems normal. But even if we won't get the numbers like the previous rounds or will have a shorter round it will still be a nice experience to the ones that like this concept.

 

Case Blue is still the best concept for some guys even if it was not so popular.

Let's see what we will get :)

 

Greg

I didn't have any WWII modules at the time of Case Blue, so I spent most of my time in the TF-51, but I bit the bullet and bought the Bf109 toward the end. This time around I also have the P-51, so I'll be able to fly for either side. I'm looking forward to when it's run again.

[microvax]

I didn't have any WWII modules at the time of Case Blue, so I spent most of my time in the TF-51, but I bit the bullet and bought the Bf109 toward the end. This time around I also have the P-51, so I'll be able to fly for either side. I'm looking forward to when it's run again.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=110243&d=1419533628

 

I am still hoping for polychop to bring the wunderwaffle. :D

 

Apart from that I can see round 9 working as something goofy after something more realistic.

I liked the round8 concept the best so far, but round9 concept isn't straight bad either. :)

[QuiGon]

http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=110243&d=1419533628

 

I am still hoping for polychop to bring the wunderwaffle. :D

 

Apart from that I can see round 9 working as something goofy after something more realistic.

I liked the round8 concept the best so far, but round9 concept isn't straight bad either. :)

 

Since Greg said that the current testing setup isn't close to what round 9 will be I still hope for a Korea setting (MiG-15 vs F-86 and maybe P-51) or maybe a Vietnam setting (MiG-21 and Mi-8 vs F-5 and UH-1) which would be even better :)

Edited August 23, 2016 by QuiGon

[VTJS17_Fire]

360 degree radar lock with SARH missile support - check

Patched in the latest update, AFAIK. ;)

 

And please remember, the Mirage is still WIP/ beta, while the Flanker is ingame since .... uh 2004 ... or so?! With little updates to their simple avionics in all the years. The only big overhaul is the PFM.

[BSS_Sniper]

Since Greg said that the current testing setup isn't close to what round 9 will be I still hope for a Korea setting (MiG-15 vs F-86 and maybe P-51) or maybe a Vietnam setting (MiG-21 and Mi-8 vs F-5 and UH-1) which would be even better :)

 

I'd love for that to be what is coming for round 9.

[Jugdriver]

The Mirage is just fantastic.

 

Disable FBW and fly it like a Tie fighter - check.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=171830

 

 

And this is the post later on in the thread from the guy who pulled the maneuver off

 

ok well seeing as i made the damn video here's my two cents

 

i really never thought it would be necessary to state this but i 100000% went into this knowing how crazy the concept is, i mean there's a REASON im using an ace combat livery. you guys really gotta cut razbam some slack because they obviously have more pressing and reasonable tweaks to attend to, it's not like this is a game breaking thing that everyone is going to try in multiplayer , it was just, if you could possibly imagine it, me having fun, nothing more than that, i did the maneuver for FUN, so that people could watch and have a good laugh, is it such an absolutely mind blowing concept that you can just goof off in a simulator sometimes??

 

is it realistic? of course not, but why should razbam go through the tedious task of fine tuning such a ridiculous thing, it has literally no serious application in the sim, the only way it could possibly be used is for just messing around, nobody could possibly go into a serious scenario with a top gun mindset of using this in a real dogfight, you will die, plain and simple, this is a big bomber that i modified to ignore my presence and just fly straight and brain dead and guess what, most of the time i tried this i ended up falling out of the sky

 

at this point i might as well delete the video because what was supposed to be me just sharing a good laugh is turning into everyone tearing into each other. razbam has done an incredible job with the mirage and i have the utmost respect for their work, and the work of ANY of the third party devs who bust their asses to bring us these modules, let them focus on actually important FM tweaks that apply to simulated scenarios, this was not meant to be a simulated scenario, this would never have worked and at no point did i go into this with a serious mindset, nobody in their right mind is going to fly a simulated scenario with the FBW system off and if they try they find themselves in a crater 99.9% of the time like i did when i was doing this

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2866349&postcount=43

 

Lets try and stay away from disinformation.

 

JD

AKA_MAttE

Edited August 23, 2016 by Jugdriver

[Reaper6]

And this is the post later on in the thread from the guy who pulled the maneuver off

 

ok well seeing as i made the damn video here's my two cents

 

i really never thought it would be necessary to state this but i 100000% went into this knowing how crazy the concept is, i mean there's a REASON im using an ace combat livery. you guys really gotta cut razbam some slack because they obviously have more pressing and reasonable tweaks to attend to, it's not like this is a game breaking thing that everyone is going to try in multiplayer , it was just, if you could possibly imagine it, me having fun, nothing more than that, i did the maneuver for FUN, so that people could watch and have a good laugh, is it such an absolutely mind blowing concept that you can just goof off in a simulator sometimes??

 

is it realistic? of course not, but why should razbam go through the tedious task of fine tuning such a ridiculous thing, it has literally no serious application in the sim, the only way it could possibly be used is for just messing around, nobody could possibly go into a serious scenario with a top gun mindset of using this in a real dogfight, you will die, plain and simple, this is a big bomber that i modified to ignore my presence and just fly straight and brain dead and guess what, most of the time i tried this i ended up falling out of the sky

 

at this point i might as well delete the video because what was supposed to be me just sharing a good laugh is turning into everyone tearing into each other. razbam has done an incredible job with the mirage and i have the utmost respect for their work, and the work of ANY of the third party devs who bust their asses to bring us these modules, let them focus on actually important FM tweaks that apply to simulated scenarios, this was not meant to be a simulated scenario, this would never have worked and at no point did i go into this with a serious mindset, nobody in their right mind is going to fly a simulated scenario with the FBW system off and if they try they find themselves in a crater 99.9% of the time like i did when i was doing this

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2866349&postcount=43

 

Lets try and stay away from disinformation.

 

JD

AKA_MAttE

 

I don't fly jets, so this may be a stupid question... But what does this have to do with BlueFlag?

 

Reaper6