Su-27 Engines and Throttle issue

[promitheas]

So I read this thread but still I am having issues with my engines. I tried mapping the controls to other keys but still the engines and throttle were unresponsive. (On a side note, how can I map my Logitech Extreme 3d Pros throttle in DCS? Doesn't work for any aircraft for me). I turn on electrical power, turn on lights, and close canopy, but when I try to start my engines both separately and with the "quickstart" method nothing happens. Please don't tell me that my throttle has to be completely idle, as it is unresponsive as well. Why are some controls in the Su-27 unresponsive? Thanks in advance guys! :pilotfly:

 

Edit 1: If it comes to it, I will try to reinstall Su-27. How can I do that on steam?

[mvsgas]

Did you map the axis to the throttle? I have to do this on every aircraft since DCS chooses a axis I do not have for some reason.

[DarkFire]

So I read this thread but still I am having issues with my engines. I tried mapping the controls to other keys but still the engines and throttle were unresponsive. (On a side note, how can I map my Logitech Extreme 3d Pros throttle in DCS? Doesn't work for any aircraft for me). I turn on electrical power, turn on lights, and close canopy, but when I try to start my engines both separately and with the "quickstart" method nothing happens. Please don't tell me that my throttle has to be completely idle, as it is unresponsive as well. Why are some controls in the Su-27 unresponsive? Thanks in advance guys! :pilotfly:

 

Edit 1: If it comes to it, I will try to reinstall Su-27. How can I do that on steam?

 

Some very common causes of problems:

 

1. If you have a force-feedback stick, turn off the force feedback.

 

2. Go in to your axis settings and make sure that only 1 physical game controller axis is mapped to each of the in-game axes, i.e. only your throttle is mapped to the in-game throttle, only the Y axis of your stick is mapped to the roll axis etc. For some reason DCS World likes to take every axis from every HID device connected to a computer and map them all to random axes.

 

3. Because the Su-27 is "only" modelled to the FC standard rather than the full DCS standard, the setting of your throttles when you start the engines shouldn't make much difference - they should start regardless, though you'd want to throttle back to idle fairly quickly otherwise the engines could flood.

 

4. I'm not trying to teach you to suck eggs, but was there actually any fuel in your Flanker? I've seen the situation before in a random mission where the bird started empty and it was necessary to rearm & refuel before start-up.

 

Hope this helps...

[promitheas]

Hey thanks DarkFire!! After I followed your 1st and 2nd sugestions I managed to start my engines and use my joystick's built in throttle. Cheers mate! And as for your 4th suggestion about the fuel, you had me doubting myself for a second there, but it turns out I had fuel. (I also had this issue on the tutorial mission). Anyway thanks again.

[DarkFire]

Hey thanks DarkFire!! After I followed your 1st and 2nd sugestions I managed to start my engines and use my joystick's built in throttle. Cheers mate! And as for your 4th suggestion about the fuel, you had me doubting myself for a second there, but it turns out I had fuel. (I also had this issue on the tutorial mission). Anyway thanks again.

 

No problem :) steps 1 & 2 generally solve 95% of control issues in DCS World.

[AussieGhost789]

Just on point 3, the throttle does need to be in idle for it to start.

[Kang]

Any advice on this issue if it isn't an error in mapping the axes?

[DarkFire]

Any advice on this issue if it isn't an error in mapping the axes?

 

What's the exact problem you're experiencing? Engines not starting?

[Kang]

Engines not starting and throttles not moving. I guess if the throttle by default is not at zero it makes sense that the engines don't start, but somehow I can't move the throttle. Mapped axis doesn't respond, keyboard commands don't respond.

[DarkFire]

Engines not starting and throttles not moving. I guess if the throttle by default is not at zero it makes sense that the engines don't start, but somehow I can't move the throttle. Mapped axis doesn't respond, keyboard commands don't respond.

 

Hmm weird. Let's see if we can rule some things out first.

 

In the options menu, if you try to tweak the throttle input axis, can you see the input move? Is the game seeing your throttle device? Similarly with the keyboard - is it just the engines that don't work or do none of the keyboard commands work?

 

If the game can 'see' your throttle input, but the engines don't start, then I'd suggest trying to repair your DCS world installation. If the game as a whole doesn't recognise your throttle at all then it might be worth checking to see if you can calibrate it under windows. If so, then the problem is somewhere between the throttle & the game. Try plugging it in to a different USB port. Specifically, make sure it isn't plugged in to a USB 3 port, a lot of peripherals don't like USB 3 or USB 3.1 for some reason and need a USB 2 port instead.

[Weta43]

If you can move them, but not get them back to minimum, check you haven't tuned the axis in such a way as to cut off the max & min ranges

[Kang]

Other keyboard commands work fine as far as I can tell. I can start up electrics, lights and so on. Just the throttle doesn't respond - the throttle handles in the cockpit won't move either. The input shows in the options and everything works out for all the other modules, it's just the Su-27.

[Weegie]

Some very common causes of problems:

 

2. Go in to your axis settings and make sure that only 1 physical game controller axis is mapped to each of the in-game axes, i.e. only your throttle is mapped to the in-game throttle, only the Y axis of your stick is mapped to the roll axis etc. For some reason DCS World likes to take every axis from every HID device connected to a computer and map them all to random axes.

 

I had a helluva time trying to take off in the MiG-21 I keep rolling to the left after I left the ground randomly and could not figure it :joystick:

 

Reminded me of the time they cross connected the roll and yaw?? stability computers on an SR-71 or was it a A-12

 

Anyway it was just as DarkFire stated. Found it out in a wide view and seen the stick was making large rapid random movements.

 

Going to controls, my stick was also mapped to the tiny mouse/joystick on the A-10 throttle. As my finger brushed it gave me full stick deflection

 

What a dope

[DarkFire]

Anyway it was just as DarkFire stated. Found it out in a wide view and seen the stick was making large rapid random movements. Going to controls, my stick was also mapped to the tiny mouse/joystick on the A-10 throttle. As my finger brushed it gave me full stick deflection...

 

This. This is the cause of probably 95% of all axis issues in DCS. By default the axis commands page of the control options tends to look something like this:

 

 

Note that here I have pitch, roll, yaw and throttle assigned to physical device axes on both my stick and throttle. This causes all sorts of issues. You need to make sure that only 1 axis on 1 physical device is mapped to 1 in-game axis on your aircraft. For example, my axes page for the Su-27 looks like this:

 

 

Here I have 1 pitch axis, 1 roll axis and 1 throttle axis.

[Kang]

Alright, thank you for clearing that up again, of course, but it leads me right back to my earlier question:

 

Anything to try if multi-mapping of axes in any shape or form is not the issue and the Su-27 throttles (and seemingly only those) just won't move?

[Weta43]

Very odd that even the keyboard commands don't work.

Is there absolutely no movement, or a tiny little jiggle.

If there's some sort of conflict the controls usually at least jiggle as one of the bound inputs is made.

Have you tried un-mapping and re-mapping the keyboard commands?

If you go to the controls setup screen, does hitting the keys you have bound to the throttle cause the selected line to jump to the correct throttle lines?

If you go to the axis tune, does moving your joystick cause both the joystick position indicator, and the control response indicator to both move together ?

[DarkFire]

Other keyboard commands work fine as far as I can tell. I can start up electrics, lights and so on. Just the throttle doesn't respond - the throttle handles in the cockpit won't move either. The input shows in the options and everything works out for all the other modules, it's just the Su-27.

 

So, the game can see your throttle. Keyboard works correctly. Not an axis assignment issue. Other aircraft also work correctly. OK, lets try a few other things:

 

1. The engines on the Su-27 don't like starting unless the throttle is actually at the 0 position. Make sure that your throttle actually goes all the way down to 0 reported input.

 

2. I'd recommend enabling "Synchronise cockpit controls with HOTAS controls at mission start" under Options --> Misc. That will make sure that if you have your physical throttle closed that the one on your Su-27 will also be properly closed.

 

3. If all else fails, try repairing your DCS World installation. It could be that there's a problem with the input.lua file for your Su-27.

[Ironhand]

Alright, thank you for clearing that up again, of course, but it leads me right back to my earlier question:

 

Anything to try if multi-mapping of axes in any shape or form is not the issue and the Su-27 throttles (and seemingly only those) just won't move?

Just as a doublecheck, have you tried unplugging your stick, starting the sim, and then starting your engines? That might help to narrow things down.

[Mars Exulte]

I know with the F-15, you can only start one engine at a time, and the controls remain unresponsive until the engines are on. Left engine on? Left throttle works. Right engine on? Now the right throttle works. Source? Me flying it last night, of course, I don't use the 'start both engines command', that may work differently. If you start them individually, they have to be started individually. I haven't flown the Su-27, but you may be observing something similar.

 

If everything else is working, then there is some sort of plane specific issue at foot, something isn't mapped right, most likely, and it's either trying to start both engines simultaneously or it thinks the throttle is not at idle.

 

As others suggested, I'd start by clearing all your throttle axises and doing it by keyboard. If it works, then reassign your throttle. If you have a split throttle, make sure you either assign the axises to each engine individually, or separate one throttle to be the main if you're using the generic thrust axis. Then try again.

 

I have had similar 'why won't it start' issues, and it has without fail always come back to a screw up in axis assignment. If everything works but that plane, then it isn't hardware. It's a command assignment somewhere, or you doing something that specific plane doesn't like.

[Kang]

Thanks for the input. Not quite working yet, but I double-checked that the axes are all responding in the settings menu, adjusted the dead-zones to make sure I can reach 0 with ease and repaired the installation. No change as of yet, but thanks for the info that the throttles won't move while the engine isn't running anyway. I thought that would be the hint to the problem...

[Mars Exulte]

I hope you get it sorted. I have to deal with this kind of crap regularly. All my fancy controls and panels are really fun! Unfortunately, DCS tries to assign commands to everything but the kitchen sink, typically the same command is strung across seven or eight devices. Have to fix it with each new aircraft I purchase, and often immediately after patches or when I plug/unplug something.

 

*frowns at ED* The things I put up with for you :p

[DarkFire]

Thanks for the input. Not quite working yet, but I double-checked that the axes are all responding in the settings menu, adjusted the dead-zones to make sure I can reach 0 with ease and repaired the installation. No change as of yet, but thanks for the info that the throttles won't move while the engine isn't running anyway. I thought that would be the hint to the problem...

 

As a bit of a last-ditch attempt, try re-assigning the start left & right engine keys in the options menu. Some keyboards don't report keys as you might think they do. For example, according to DCS, my backslash key to open the comms menu is reported to the game as being "User key 102" or something similar. Might be a keyboard mapping issue. If that doesn't work, short of a full DCS re-installation I have to admit I'm out of ideas :(

[Kang]

Just to keep you all posted: I've of course tried around a little more and once (!) managed to get the engines to start. To be honest, I'm absolutely puzzled as to how, as I haven't really changed anything. Just kept on trying and pressing the same old buttons and voilà, looks like my Su-27 is just a little moody.

Seriously no idea why, but I guess it means that there isn't anything fundamentally broken at least.

[DarkFire]

Just to keep you all posted: I've of course tried around a little more and once (!) managed to get the engines to start. To be honest, I'm absolutely puzzled as to how, as I haven't really changed anything. Just kept on trying and pressing the same old buttons and voilà, looks like my Su-27 is just a little moody.

Seriously no idea why, but I guess it means that there isn't anything fundamentally broken at least.

 

I've experienced a similar thing in MP missions: some times the engines won't start, but re-starting DCS usually sorts things out. Normally as long as your physical throttle is at the zero position the engines should start. I wonder if this problem is somehow tied to the same issue that was causing the mouse pointer problem...

[JellybeanTiger]

Just to keep you all posted: I've of course tried around a little more and once (!) managed to get the engines to start. To be honest, I'm absolutely puzzled as to how, as I haven't really changed anything. Just kept on trying and pressing the same old buttons and voilà, looks like my Su-27 is just a little moody.

Seriously no idea why, but I guess it means that there isn't anything fundamentally broken at least.

 

How did you fix this?

 

The throttle in the training start up mission does not work ,only in normal missions.

 

In training even the keys assigned to throttle do not work on this ac.