Jump to content

F-5 Navigation


TwoLate

Recommended Posts

Just did a navigation mission from Batumi to Sennaki with weather socked in with clouds 500 feet to 5,000 feet with rain. That was a blast. Using Tacan and calling tower and getting air pressure to reset altimeter. Going through 4,500 feet of clouds and rain and at 500 feet the runway pops in sight in front of you is a real rush.

  • Like 1

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just did a navigation mission from Batumi to Sennaki with weather socked in with clouds 500 feet to 5,000 feet with rain. That was a blast. Using Tacan and calling tower and getting air pressure to reset altimeter. Going through 4,500 feet of clouds and rain and at 500 feet the runway pops in sight in front of you is a real rush.

 

Sounds like a fun thing to try out. Will give it a go tonight!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That does sound fun and a nice challenge. I'm trash with the ME, any chance you could post your mission.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

i7 10700K OC 5.1GHZ / 500GB SSD & 1TB M:2 & 4TB HDD / MSI Gaming MB / GTX 1080 / 32GB RAM / Win 10 / TrackIR 4 Pro / CH Pedals / TM Warthog

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That does sound fun and a nice challenge. I'm trash with the ME, any chance you could post your mission.

 

I am no expert and a newbie at this comments and suggestions are welcomed. Mission is a basic mission to try it out. You can pick any base with Tacan. I picked Senaki.

 

 

Just pick things up here and there. I will use Senaki as example.

1. Set Tacan for Senaki 31x

2. Set radio To Senaki 261

3. Call Senaki for inbound.

4. Senaki will give air pressure reset altimeter

5. Fly direct to Tacan using HSI

6 When Tacan indicates you are over by a big swing in his turn to heading of 270 because we will land on runway 90.

7. When DME reaches 10 miles turn around I am doing this above cloud level of 5'000 feet.

8. Now a heading of 90 and start a slow descent through the soup.

9. Watching HSI and AI and Altimeter and speed to glide me through the soup and get lined up.

10 plan to be 500 feet 2 miles out an bam the runway is in front of you.

 

Just a rough guide how I did it.

 

To me navigation is just as fun as blowing something up.

Navigation.miz

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here’s a method which works with every plane and at every airfield (especially if you are in clouds during the whole approach).

 

1. Set a radial on the HSI that’s opposite to your desired inbound track -15° ( e.g. Senaki inbound track 085° +180° = 265° – 15° = 250°) and arrive at the TACAN 7000ft above field elevation.

 

2. Passing the station follow the outbound radial at 220kts with a ROD of -1000ft/min. Keep this speed and ROD until breaking out of the clouds at your chosen minimum. (stnd non-precision minimum would be field elev +300ft)

 

3. At 9NM maintain your present heading and change the HSI course to the desired inbound track (085° for Senaki)

 

4. At 10NM turn right with 30° bank until you are established on the inbound track. Check altitudes when established inbound: 10NM = field elev +3000ft, 5NM +1500ft, 3NM +1000ft, 1NM +300ft.

 

 

7000ft above the field for starting the approach is important because it keeps you clear of high terrain.

10NM provide enough time/distance to correct any course and/or altitude errors.

220kts and 1000ft/min ROD give you a flat attitude so that you can easier spot the runway when breaking out of the clouds.

Keeping a constant speed and ROD considerably reduces the workload and 30° bank is the optimum because this low bank angle doesn’t require coarse pitch/power changes and it helps to maintain your situational awareness.

 

Note concerning Senaki.

The reason for the 85° offset inbound track is because the TACAN station is located far behind and to the left of the threshold.

This track leads you exactly to the RWY 09 threshold.

Using the runway heading (090°) for the inbound track means that you would fly parallel to the runway and you would need to do a destabilizing S turn on short final (and the runway wouldn't appear in front of you)

 

Hope that helps in reliable RTB in bad weather :)

 

Very interesting, and funny.

 

I made lots of navigation, it is very important for the attack role, to learn how to navigate properly. Also, in my missions, i put many restrictions, No flying zones, and Dangerous zones, you avoid them via navigation. For instance corridors, to get the enemy lines. Every bird outside the zone, will be shot down. . This is like real life, you can put some enemies in friendly non flying zone area, such as, near big cities, or airports, or bridges.

 

Try that, and the inmersion be for bombing, hunting, is massive. Instead of, take off, heading to enemy, bomb, and rtb.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@TwoLate,

 

Thanks very much for providing that file. I'll give it a go this weekend.

 

@bbrz,

 

Thanks for the additional info, I'll have to sketch it out first (I like to visualize) then fly the pattern.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

i7 10700K OC 5.1GHZ / 500GB SSD & 1TB M:2 & 4TB HDD / MSI Gaming MB / GTX 1080 / 32GB RAM / Win 10 / TrackIR 4 Pro / CH Pedals / TM Warthog

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice job there bbrz.

 

If you allow me to comment, the heights seem a bit high to me. In this kind of approaches you use to be around 2500 - 3000 ft AGL above the field on the beacon and descend to 2000-2500 ft AGL when you start the outbound leg. Keep that height until you begin the final descent, once established inbound.

 

Even on a fighter, IFR approaches allow plenty of time for the descents unless special cases like surrounding high ground, where they are tweaked for that. After all they are used the same by an F-5 and a C-5. :)

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@escaner

Just checked and e.g. the ILS DME app for RWY 13 at Batumi according to the Georgia AIP commences at 7000ft over the LU NDB.

 

They start at 7,000' MSL yes, which subtracting the airport elevation is 5,376' AAL. And then they go 15.6 miles out before turning inbound to allow for the descent. All of that because of the mountains.

 

So it is 56% more distance to go and 23% less altitude to descend than in your proposal.

 

And the approach to RWY 31 starts at 6000-1624 = 4376' AAL and still goes 12.5 miles out because the surrounding terrain to the SW is lower.

 

Obviously, the higher the mountains surrounding the airport, the higher the IAF is and the longer distance the aircraft has to fly.

 

3NM per 1000 ft to descend is what is calculated normally for initial descent with engines at idle. But in the approach phase everything is smoother.

 

In the outbound, you are allowing for 10 NM IIRC to descend 3,000 ft and that is pretty tight for the approach phase.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. ? Batumi elev is 108ft

2. Don't know why you consider a ROD of 1000ft/min tight.

 

Maybe because first you said Tblisi and that is what I answered... didn't note that you had changed now to Batumi. Well, I am pretty sure it is the same.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. Do you have links for e.g. TACAN approaches for Batumi, Kobuleti, Senaki and Kutaisi?

 

Not for free. I think Navigaph might have them but it's paid for.

 

2. Again, this is a safest and easiest procedure I could think of which works with every plane and airport down to an (official) 300ft minimum. Not every DCS pilot is instrument rated and can read approach plates.

Btw, you would be surprised how many pilots are unfortunately using self-designed 'procedures' IRL.

 

I'm not criticising, just directing those people to a site where they can get the proper info if they want it. I'm sure you're right that not every DCS pilot can read an approach plate, but everyone has to start somewhere and the basics are fairly straight forward.

 

Scary if people are making it up as they go along IRL though. Are we talking IFR pilots or VFR pilots blundering their way through?!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

These may be of interest.

 

476 vFG Caucasus Flight Info Pubs

476 vFG Nevada Flight Info Pub v1.2

 

The real world plates don't quite match with DCS (Nevada is pretty close but still not truly accurate) so we made our own for the Caucasus and re-drew the Nevada plates with values that work for DCS.

 

Of note however is that magnetic variation in DCS changes over time, so the year you set in the mission editor will also impact on how accurate any chart is.

 

Spoiler

Intel 13900K (5Ghz), 64Gb 6400Mhz, MSi RTX 3090, Schiit Modi/Magi DAC/AMP, ASUS PG43UQ, Hotas Warthog, RealSimulator FSSB3, 2x TM MFDs + DCS MFDs, MFG Crosswinds, Elgato Steamdeck XL

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the added info guys.

 

@Eddie, I appreciate you sharing your squadron resources, I can imagine it takes quite a bit of work to produce them for DCS use.

 

:thumbup:

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

i7 10700K OC 5.1GHZ / 500GB SSD & 1TB M:2 & 4TB HDD / MSI Gaming MB / GTX 1080 / 32GB RAM / Win 10 / TrackIR 4 Pro / CH Pedals / TM Warthog

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not for free. I think Navigaph might have them but it's paid for.

 

 

 

I'm not criticising, just directing those people to a site where they can get the proper info if they want it. I'm sure you're right that not every DCS pilot can read an approach plate, but everyone has to start somewhere and the basics are fairly straight forward.

 

Scary if people are making it up as they go along IRL though. Are we talking IFR pilots or VFR pilots blundering their way through?!

 

 

 

I'm not sure how he came up with people IRL making up their own procedures and all... Flying in certain parts of the world can be "cow -boyish", but for the most part it's all done the right way from my experience.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...