SATAC 2016

[Bushmanni]

SATAC Registration:

 

SF Squadron

http://dcsfinland.fi/sf-squadron/

 

pilots:

Bushmanni

Ocelot

Razer

Kapsu

Juuba

Sykloni

Farrago

RedShot

 

Everyone will be flying F-15C.

 

 

When can we have the mission file available? One concern for me is that the mission is built by someone who is participating in the competition and hence his team gets head start in training as they know the precise area where the battles are fought. In this case I'd like to have the precise combat bubble position and size published as early as possible so we can factor it in in training. If the battle is fought over water or flat land then it's not an issue but in mountains familiarity with the terrain can be a factor.

 

The "netcode" setting only affects the extrapolation algorithm ie. it doesn't have any change in the data that is traveling between clients and server. It only affects what happens on your own machine. In BVR the new algo likely improves missile Pk and helps keeping tally in laggy situations but other than that it effectively disables gun sight in F-15 and completely destroys BFM in any situation. In a setting with few players and good connections the old algo is superior until the new one is fixed.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Bushmanni
added RedShot to participating pilots

[FLANKERATOR]

@Rush: I see what you mean but I've used Tacview so many times to work out the scores for past events and I had come across many situations where Tacview even from the host proved to be unreliable. The only way was to reconcile Tacview logs with server logs and sometimes even ask for a client Tacview to get a good picture of what really happened. So it's not bullet proof.

Code wise, I think Stuge's suggestion works great, at least for the time being. SATAC client count is not quite high so this will also work to our advantage. We will use the new code if fixed by ED before the official kick off, otherwise, we'll use the old one.

 

@Bushmanni: the mission is still being worked on and it's not being made by the 51St so nobody has access to it yet.

It will be an extension of the Top Gun event mission with a much larger bubble to accommodate BVR. All pilots will have to enter the bubble on time (any airframe late to get on station will be knocked out of the fight by a trigger). All airframes must stay inside the bubble until all enemy aircraft are neutralized (any airframe exiting the bubble too soon will be blown out of the sky). Once all opponents are neutralized, at least one airframe from the winning team must make it back home to collect the round.

Once the mission is ready I will posted for everybody to use for training. Terrain has not been decided yet and will most likely be a mixture of flat and mountainous setting with teams swapping sides after each round.

 

Thanks all for the sign ups so far.

[Frostie]

This is the SATAC mission, it has been tested several times and contains all types of terrain.

 

http://forum.51st.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=3279

[FLANKERATOR]

Frostie, is that the old SATAC mission?

 

As I said, I'm working on a new one that includes triggers to make sure people getting on station on time and holding the combat area, denying any possibility of stalling when outnumbered.

I'll post it here once ready.

[Frostie]

Frostie, is that the old SATAC mission?

 

As I said, I'm working on a new one that includes triggers to make sure people getting on station on time and holding the combat area, denying any possibility of stalling when outnumbered.

I'll post it here once ready.

 

I made the mission a month or so ago, I didn't know you were working on a mission also.

I'll address you through pm and we'll sort something out comrade.

[redrapter]

SATAC Registration:

 

Squadron Name: 08th Squadron

Squadron website link: http://08theco.duckdns.org/forum/

 

Pilot Name:

Redrapter

Viper

Nauter

Goss

TBD

 

Aircraft Selected:

F15

Su27

Su27

Su27

TBD

Edited August 28, 2016 by redrapter
A pilot was added

[FLANKERATOR]

Alright guys, you can use the mission posted by Frostie for training:

http://forum.51st.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=3279

 

Terrain and positioning won't change, we are just updating a couple of scripts and here is how it will function:

 

Both teams are required to enter the combat zone asap after the fight is announced on.

Pre-bubble requirement:

If an airframe or more are missing in the bubble 5mn after all opposing aircraft have entered the zone, victory will be announced for the team that has all units inside the bubble. (this is to ensure nobody is stalling or trying to force a round restart by not engaging)

 

Bubble control conditions:

All aircraft will be required to stay within the bubble boundaries (Diameter of 200 km) until all opposing aircraft have either been destroyed or exited the bubble. Once all opponents are cleared from the bubble, the winning team will have to get at least one player to land back home safely to collect the round.

 

Please note that exiting the bubble before it has been cleared from enemy aircraft is possible but once out of the bubble, you will not be allowed to re-enter it and must then RTB and land then exit the server until the next round commences. This is to allow low fuel aircraft a safe landing and respective pilots avoiding an unnecessary loss that would mess up their stats.

 

So please, go ahead and use the mission above to practice and get used to surrounding terrain etc, an updated version of the map will be posted later with updated scripts only but exactly same terrain.

[JunMcKill]

AWACS?

 

Alright guys, you can use the mission posted by Frostie for training:

http://forum.51st.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=3279

 

Terrain and positioning won't change, we are just updating a couple of scripts and here is how it will function:

 

Both teams are required to enter the combat zone asap after the fight is announced on.

Pre-bubble requirement:

If an airframe or more are missing in the bubble 5mn after all opposing aircraft have entered the zone, victory will be announced for the team that has all units inside the bubble. (this is to ensure nobody is stalling or trying to force a round restart by not engaging)

 

Bubble control conditions:

All aircraft will be required to stay within the bubble boundaries (Diameter of 200 km) until all opposing aircraft have either been destroyed or exited the bubble. Once all opponents are cleared from the bubble, the winning team will have to get at least one player to land back home safely to collect the round.

 

Please note that exiting the bubble before it has been cleared from enemy aircraft is possible but once out of the bubble, you will not be allowed to re-enter it and must then RTB and land then exit the server until the next round commences. This is to allow low fuel aircraft a safe landing and respective pilots avoiding an unnecessary loss that would mess up their stats.

 

So please, go ahead and use the mission above to practice and get used to surrounding terrain etc, an updated version of the map will be posted later with updated scripts only but exactly same terrain.

[Gaanalma]

Update 36°

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2877828&postcount=2

[Breakshot]

^^ guys take note that Su-33 would not be possible in this event as its SFM is not compatible with other modules. It would be advisable to take the 27...

[Gaanalma]

Same things Mig29?

[JunMcKill]

^^ guys take note that Su-33 would not be possible in this event as its SFM is not compatible with other modules. It would be advisable to take the 27...

 

And Mirage?, if you tell me that MIrage EFM is close to reality, please I will hang myself right now! ;) I propose to only fly with SU-27 and F-15C

Edited August 23, 2016 by JunMcKill

[JunMcKill]

Be advice, the red side SU-27 #001 have short range missiles in its default loadout

 

Alright guys, you can use the mission posted by Frostie for training:

http://forum.51st.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=3279

 

Terrain and positioning won't change, we are just updating a couple of scripts and here is how it will function:

 

Both teams are required to enter the combat zone asap after the fight is announced on.

Pre-bubble requirement:

If an airframe or more are missing in the bubble 5mn after all opposing aircraft have entered the zone, victory will be announced for the team that has all units inside the bubble. (this is to ensure nobody is stalling or trying to force a round restart by not engaging)

 

Bubble control conditions:

All aircraft will be required to stay within the bubble boundaries (Diameter of 200 km) until all opposing aircraft have either been destroyed or exited the bubble. Once all opponents are cleared from the bubble, the winning team will have to get at least one player to land back home safely to collect the round.

 

Please note that exiting the bubble before it has been cleared from enemy aircraft is possible but once out of the bubble, you will not be allowed to re-enter it and must then RTB and land then exit the server until the next round commences. This is to allow low fuel aircraft a safe landing and respective pilots avoiding an unnecessary loss that would mess up their stats.

 

So please, go ahead and use the mission above to practice and get used to surrounding terrain etc, an updated version of the map will be posted later with updated scripts only but exactly same terrain.

[FLANKERATOR]

@Rush and Gaanalma

 

No AWACS guys.

 

Available fighters are

Su-27

MiG-29

F15

Mirage 2000

 

We wanted to add the Su-33 but teams must swap sides after each round for terrain based tactical matters plus the Su-33 is available to Russia only. Hence it won't be featured. Moreover, there is almost nothing an Su-33 does combat wise that the 27 can't do better.

[HiJack]

Updated TAW pilots:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2878141&postcount=6

[FLANKERATOR]

A reminder that big Squadrons can field up to 3 teams of 6 pilots each. However, a pilot must stick to the same team for the whole championship, therefore, it's advisable to have reserves for each team.

 

A little update regarding how the bubble concept in SATAC will work:

The team that is able to control the airspace for 5mn will be declared winner of the said round. Controling the airspace means having at least one aircraft inside the bubble for 5mn while keeping all enemy aircraft out of the bubble. After 5 mn of air supremacy, a trigger will kick in announcing that the airspace has been secured, clearing the winner for RTB so that the round can be officially collected.

 

Whats the point?

Simply to deny possible stalling and force competitors to focus on achieving air superiority over a disputed airspace, which is after all the essence of air to air and the main purpose of a fighter aircraft.

[JunMcKill]

A reminder that big Squadrons can field up to 3 teams of 6 pilots each. However, a pilot must stick to the same team for the whole championship, therefore, it's advisable to have reserves for each team.

 

A little update regarding how the bubble concept in SATAC will work:

The team that is able to control the airspace for 5mn will be declared winner of the said round. Controling the airspace means having at least one aircraft inside the bubble for 5mn while keeping all enemy aircraft out of the bubble. After 5 mn of air supremacy, a trigger will kick in announcing that the airspace has been secured, clearing the winner for RTB so that the round can be officially collected.

 

Whats the point?

Simply to deny possible stalling and force competitors to focus on achieving air superiority over a disputed airspace, which is after all the essence of air to air and the main purpose of a fighter aircraft.

 

It means that if someone run out of fuel or winchester, have to RTB out of the bubble?

[Bushmanni]

Is this 5 min rule only applied to the start of the round ie. if the bandits don't show up inside the bubble 5 min after you have entered, they will lose? Bandits who have left the bubble are permanently out of the fight so you shouldn't need to wait in that case. You could send solo ship into the bubble to fulfill the rule and scramble the rest only when necessary to possibly buy big advantage in fuel.

 

There's also possibility to land on a road and wait for the bandits to run out of fuel and then take-off again. I suppose there's going to be some kind of system or rule to prevent this also?

Edited August 23, 2016 by Bushmanni

[*Rage*]

Landing on a road and waiting? I think shame and a sense of fair play should be adequate intrinsic preventative systems:)

[JunMcKill]

Flanker, what time will the event?

 

 

 

SATAC stands for Squadron Air to Air Championship; this will be the second edition after 2013, which saw the triumph of the 51st PVO Regiment over NFI in a thrilling final match on a score of 2 rounds to 1.

 

Date will be Saturday 17th of September and Sunday 18th of September. Depending on number of teams, we could also use a second weekend to wrap it up (24th and 25th of September).

 

This a pure A2A competition opposing squadrons.

 

Format will be 6v6.

 

Depending on how many teams will sign up, this tournament will run either on a best of 3 rounds of best of 5 rounds.

 

Number of teams will also determine whether this competition will be single or double knock out.

 

Even though it is a squadron based event, we also want to welcome lone wolves who can sign up to team up together.

 

This event will count for the SA-SIM's air-to-air rankings.

 

We look forward to seeing many DCS squadrons as well as lone wolves stepping up to the plate to make the most out of what we hope will be a great competition and a great opportunity to train and fight against some of the best DCS fighter squadrons.

 

All modules not suffering from severe glitches are allowed although given the nature of this competition, it would be foolish to fly anything but the Su-27 or the F-15.

 

Here is a promo video put together in 2015 as this is when SATAC 2 had been planned for initially before getting postponed. Now all lights are green, so let's bring it on!

 

 

To register, please post in this thread:

 

- Squadron Name

- Squadron website link

- Pilot Names

- Aircraft selected

[JunMcKill]

@Rush and Gaanalma

 

No AWACS guys.

 

Available fighters are

Su-27

MiG-29

F15

Mirage 2000

 

We wanted to add the Su-33 but teams must swap sides after each round for terrain based tactical matters plus the Su-33 is available to Russia only. Hence it won't be featured. Moreover, there is almost nothing an Su-33 does combat wise that the 27 can't do better.

 

I think the SU-33 should go, the difference in missiles (two more), is the same in case of fuel with the F-15, that can take three tanks and stay in the air in combat for more time. Unless there is a prohibition to F-15 to carry only one tank!

[Sweep]

Flank', ya know that Greece has Su-33s in game, right?

 

You can infact have Flanker-Ds on both sides. :)

[Gaanalma]

@Rush and Gaanalma

 

No AWACS guys.

 

Available fighters are

Su-27

MiG-29

F15

Mirage 2000

 

We wanted to add the Su-33 but teams must swap sides after each round for terrain based tactical matters plus the Su-33 is available to Russia only. Hence it won't be featured. Moreover, there is almost nothing an Su-33 does combat wise that the 27 can't do better.

 

OK...

 

36° Updated

[Frostie]

Is this 5 min rule only applied to the start of the round ie. if the bandits don't show up inside the bubble 5 min after you have entered, they will lose? Bandits who have left the bubble are permanently out of the fight so you shouldn't need to wait in that case. You could send solo ship into the bubble to fulfill the rule and scramble the rest only when necessary to possibly buy big advantage in fuel.

 

There's also possibility to land on a road and wait for the bandits to run out of fuel and then take-off again. I suppose there's going to be some kind of system or rule to prevent this also?

All aircraft must take off immediately, there has never been a ruling as far as I know in this regard because it was accepted as common practice for fighter sweeps.

 

In an ideal World we wouldn't need any triggers as all aircraft would ingress to the combat area, face off and the loser would either get shot down or declare the loss and call knock it off.

 

To remove a potential exploit of playing for fuel by keeping out of reach and close to home base Flankerator suggested that we needed to add a combat area which must be kept in, a Chinese squadron made a mission for FC2 which kept a combat zone and any aircraft leaving it would be eliminated.

 

It's a tricky one coming up with something that can remove any dispute within matches, and more and more potential exploits get raised that could cause problems, obviously the more restriction we try and impose on how players should apply themselves the more triggers must be devised and created. In the past everyone has played by the rules of common sense and have never tried to exploit any means of winning the match other than through air combat.

 

The 5 min 180km (90km radius) bubble was created through an idea of controlling an airspace, it starts approx. 40-50km from home plate, as soon as an aircraft enters this airspace it controls it, the other side now have 5 mins for an aircraft to enter the zone or lose the round. Anyone entering the airspace can only leave to rtb, leaving and re-entering will result in aircraft destruction, unfortunately this is the only safe way I can think of enforcing this without dispute as messages may not show or could even be denied. Messages will be given when entering and leaving also when approaching the exit, aircraft that leave the control space are not allowed to engage in any combat or face elimination. Tracks will be reviewed.

I think this is pretty fair and clear on what is expected.

 

I don't like having to add triggers to what should be a straight forward competition but in light of Flankerator's concerns with admin and disputes it makes total sense.

 

One of the reasons I don't want to add 33's is the trigger creation multiplies, i'd be quite happy with a Flanker v F-15 tournie.

 

Here is the original rulebook, I think it still holds true.

http://www.51st.org/vault/SATAC/SATAC%20-%20Rulebook_v3.pdf

Edited September 3, 2016 by Frostie

[red_coreSix]

I think having Su-33s, MiG-29s and M-2000s in the tournament is a bad idea. The two former ones have SFMs and a bad damage model and the latter has a badly tuned flight/damage model. Sticking with F-15s and Su-27s is probably the best idea.