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Real world slew controls

Braeden108
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Braeden108

Braeden108

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I'm wondering if anyone knows the mechanisms behind real world slew controls. The controls for moving targeting cameras, radar cursors etc. Do these controllers use pressure sensors, lots (like a gamepad thumb stick) or an 8 way hat like the pov hat?

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Sokol1_br

Sokol1_br

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They are called transducer, and seems based on Wheatstone bridge circuit.

 

4-gage-wheatstone-bridge.jpg

 

Thurstmaster F22PRO TQS "eraserhead"* version use transducer, a kind of IBM laptop mouse, that works very bad in this controller.

 

tqsmouseyh0.jpg

Probable due the "resistive layer": https://www.google.com/patents/US5431064

 

* Other F22PRO TQS version use a small track-ball.

 

BTW - Joysticks (domestic) already use for "slew control":

 

Track-ball

Pressure transducer

Mini-stick (analog axis)

Hall sensor micro-stick (digital ? axis)

 

None good. :)


Edited by Sokol1_br
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Braeden108

Braeden108

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I believe it's a strain gauge setup on the slew sensor; http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2540923&postcount=59

 

There is a little more info in same thread as well as Gadroc getting his up and running in post 89.

 

Cheers

Hans

 

Hansolo,

if I'm not mistaken you are the lucky bastard who got his hands on an A-10A throttle. I was really hoping to run into you. Thanks for the info

 

 

Sokol1

You mentioned a lot of mechanisms for slew controls, which is best?

 

If you think its a pressure sensitive method, should I use a strain gauge or a pressure sensor?

Light the tires kick the fires!

 

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Bushmanni

Bushmanni

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CH ministick is only poorly constructed so it doesn't center reliably and has relatively low resolution potentiometers (not that you notice it though), otherwise it's pretty good and best ministick you have in any current HOTAS. CH (now Apem) makes a better ministick for professional use that uses Hall sensors. It's not cheap but still in a price range you can actually afford. I'm planning on getting one of these some day myself but don't have any personal experience so far. If anyone knows how they are IRL I'd like to know.

 

http://www.apem.com/files/apem/brochures/Joysticks_2015/APEM-TS-ThumbControls.pdf

DCS Finland: Suomalainen DCS yhteisö -- Finnish DCS community

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Sokol1_br

Sokol1_br

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CH ministick is only poorly constructed so it doesn't center reliably and has relatively low resolution potentiometers

 

CH mini-stick is the same kind of mini-stick used in Cougar TQS or is PS3 like mini-stick.

Is not their potentiometers that had low resolution but their joysticks USB controller what have only 8 bits (256 steeps) what in the limited movement of the mini-stick can became noticeable.

 

Problem with this Apen thumb-stick in the link is the size, the thing is big, almost 1" above base. :)

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Bushmanni

Bushmanni

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CH ministick requires much less force than gamepad ministick which makes it more accurate. Gamepad ministicks tend to have the same problem as Warthog in their gimbal that it's very stiff in the center and hence imprecise which is not a problem in CH. The actual resolution in CH ministick is less than 8bit as the values change in increments of two or three instead of one but it's still precise enough that you don't feel the difference. Maybe if it had a longer shaft and hence physical travel you could be more precise than the stick electronics but for a ministick 8bits seems to be more than enough.

DCS Finland: Suomalainen DCS yhteisö -- Finnish DCS community

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SF Squadron

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Braeden108

Braeden108

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Most DCS modules support mouse axis for slew - so I've been thinking about getting a touchpad mounted infront of my throttle, that would be very accurate I think. Either that or a finger mouse.

 

Neither one are particularly realistic though.

 

Define touchpad, like a laptop pad or a track point? If you're talking about a track point, than I want one too. However I can't find any. If you find any you should totally send me a link.

Light the tires kick the fires!

 

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Braeden108

Braeden108

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Thanks Sokol, but I'm looking for a force sensitive stick. Really I'm looking for something with almost no deadzone. I want the slightest pressure or movement to register.

 

I think I found the guys who put the slew controller in the hog. They don't mention price... So yeah I'm guess I can't afford it.

 

http://www.daco.co.uk/modular-controllers/force-joysticks


Edited by Braeden108

Light the tires kick the fires!

 

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Sokol1_br

Sokol1_br

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And the ones for military work with voltage above USB 5V, another complication for PC use...

 

http://electromechanicalcomponents.guardian-electric.com/item/specialty-switches-for-motion-control-products/linear-transducer-switch/item-1003

 

Controller circuit board:

 

Daco.jpgimage post

 

As curiosity Russian models - КУ-31, ДН-10М:

 

http://www.ukraviaforum.com/index.php/topic,11604.0.html

 

Associated circuit needed for ДН-10М:

 

http://forums.airforce.ru/attachments/matchast/65124d1435175082-post-2860-0-81829900-1424102735.jpg/

 

Look this "Laptop mouse" (Micro Joystick Hardware Development Kit)

 

http://www.interlinkelectronics.com/MicroJoystickHDK.php

 

And why they - like the one from F22PRO TQS "dissected" (linked above) - has 5 wires:

 

S - FSR South

W - FSR West

C - FSR Common

N - FSR North

E - FSR East

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Hansolo

Hansolo

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Hansolo,

if I'm not mistaken you are the lucky bastard who got his hands on an A-10A throttle. I was really hoping to run into you.

Yes sir you are correct.

 

Thanks Sokol, but I'm looking for a force sensitive stick. Really I'm looking for something with almost no deadzone. I want the slightest pressure or movement to register.

 

I think I found the guys who put the slew controller in the hog. They don't mention price... So yeah I'm guess I can't afford it.

Depending of what you want to spend it may be possible to find a F15 right grip on Ebay. It should have similar transducer as the one in the A-10A. Or try and write Deadman. He may have one of those laying around. Sure you then have have to make an amplifier board.

 

Cheers

Hans

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Braeden108

Braeden108

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Yes sir you are correct.

 

 

Depending of what you want to spend it may be possible to find a F15 right grip on Ebay. It should have similar transducer as the one in the A-10A. Or try and write Deadman. He may have one of those laying around. Sure you then have have to make an amplifier board.

 

Cheers

Hans

 

 

Hahaha yeah I currently use a thrust master hotas throttle (t-flight not warthog) so I'd keep the f-15 throttle. I'd love. I have one, though I'll probably just use 10-100k ohm pressure sensors.

 

Thanks for the advice, and good job on that throttle Im learning that each switch on that thing is over $50 bucks so no matter what you paid it's a steal.

Light the tires kick the fires!

 

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Braeden108

Braeden108

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I actually just got my hands on the track point out of an old dell laptop. It has four wires coming out, haven't had a chance to see what gives but we'll see. Anyone familiar with their workings by chance?

Light the tires kick the fires!

 

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