Community A-4E

[SkateZilla]

Besides profits being lost from a free module addition, the A-4E would have to undergo real testing, have real A-4E pilots confirm the systems, be re-coded into C++ for DLLs (iirc only mods do Lua, and the only time Lua is used is for testing purposes) and many other things. It definitely is a dream, but I don't see it capable of being done at this time until the community team work on it way further and do more work to it.

 

The decision to be LUA or DLL is up to the developer and isnt dependant on having SDK access.

 

You are assumming that "real" testing isnt being done,

 

IIRC, All aircraft use LUA for AI and general scripting, only parts that use DLL are the compiled parts that are compiled in the EFM Template or SDK.

 

Please do not comment on Development processes .

Edited August 25, 2018 by SkateZilla

[TWC_SLAG]

How does this sound: A-4’s take off from a carrier, are escorted by F-4’s and/or F-8’s. Mig-21’s are sent up to intersept them, and we have one hell of a fight going on. Any one shot down gets picked up by UH-1’s. Maybe even some F-5’s can get involved.

 

What’s wrong with this picture? We need the F-8 Crusader, the REAL MiG killer. Four 20mm cannon, Sidewinders, 1,000 mph, carrier based.

 

I don’t know how to do a poll. Could someone create one for the Crusader?

 

Sorry, didn’t mean to hi-jack the thread.

 

Thanks in advance

Edited August 6, 2018 by TWC_SLAG
Added

[Robert31178]

the F-8 is a sexy beast, and I love it, however as always it's a matter of right plane and right time, and as such the F-4 and F-105 were in better positions to engage MiG's. I'm going to speculate that if the Navy hadn't retained it's smaller deck carriers, which were unable to host F-4's then the F-8 might not have made it to the fight up North at all.

 

The F-8 had a respectable 6:1 kill record vs the "Peasant Air Force". USN Phantoms corrected a 2:1 ratio, turning in a 12:1 at the conflict's end; this is directly attributed to the graduate level fighter pilot course work at the brand new Top Gun, which was only available to F-4 drivers.

 

"The Real MiG Killer" only shot down 18 of the MiGs during Vietnam, all but two of them were Aim-9 kills, and one of those was an aim-9 kill that was finished up with a "nail in the coffin" guns attack. The Spad had just as many gun kills than The Last Gunfighter.

[AG-51_Razor]

WOW! That is some interesting history! I never would have guessed that the AD and the F8 had the same number of gun kills! Thanks for sharing :thumbup:

[TWC_SLAG]

the F-8 is a sexy beast, and I love it, however as always it's a matter of right plane and right time, and as such the F-4 and F-105 were in better positions to engage MiG's. I'm going to speculate that if the Navy hadn't retained it's smaller deck carriers, which were unable to host F-4's then the F-8 might not have made it to the fight up North at all.

 

The F-8 had a respectable 6:1 kill record vs the "Peasant Air Force". USN Phantoms corrected a 2:1 ratio, turning in a 12:1 at the conflict's end; this is directly attributed to the graduate level fighter pilot course work at the brand new Top Gun, which was only available to F-4 drivers.

 

"The Real MiG Killer" only shot down 18 of the MiGs during Vietnam, all but two of them were Aim-9 kills, and one of those was an aim-9 kill that was finished up with a "nail in the coffin" guns attack. The Spad had just as many gun kills than The Last Gunfighter.

 

I just watched a utube video that said the F-8’s kill ratio was 19:1. I don’t know what number is right, but the F-105 sure wasn’t a threat to the Migs. They were typically escorted by Phantoms. I have heard of only one MiG going down to a F-105. What’s the source for all of those Spad kills?

 

The RF-8 squadron (VFP-62) I was with sent detachments on the FDR to VietNam, where we lost one pilot.

 

Could it be that the Crusader was so good the pilots didn’t need Top Gun training? :) 1v1 with a Phantom, the Crusader ate them alive.

[TWC_SLAG]

I just Googled “f-8 Crusader MiG kills”, and it also said 19:1.

[Baco]

And its called the "last gunfighter" because of the change in doctrine for "planes don´t need no guns any more" thingy.

 

And maybe, (this is pure speculation) The Crusader getting so many kills because it DID have a gun was a big factor in reintroducing them as a mandatory requirement into new designs specs....

Edited August 6, 2018 by Baco

[Baco]

Back to teh Scooter...man this is the reason (well the previouse anouncement) I came back to DCS.. the Scooter is my most coveted plane to be able to fly. It´s the reason i got TK´s sims (Wings over Vietnam, Israel, etc... series) Not likely but of any other sim would come up with a High Fidelity Scooter I would drop DCS in a heart beat and never look back...

 

I just can´t believe the lack of importance they give this plane that its probably one of the longuer serving planes in history, it participated in every single war, skirmish, or conflcit since it came into service and allways making a huge difference for teh operators of such incredible humble and eficient plane. Not to mention the pletora of forces it served and is STILL in SERVICE with...

[F900EX]

+1 for getting the A4 as either a semi-free module or paid, its a long shot but the A4 is perfect for DCS

[shagrat]

I just can´t believe the lack of importance they give this plane (...)

 

Very likely more to do with the problems to negotiate terms of use for intellectual property with a thoughtless aerospace company...?

[RaceFuel85]

And its called the "last gunfighter" because of the change in doctrine for "planes don´t need no guns any more" thingy.

 

And maybe, (this is pure speculation) The Crusader getting so many kills because it DID have a gun was a big factor in reintroducing them as a mandatory requirement into new designs specs....

 

Actually the Crusader only got one or two kills with the guns. The vast majority of the kills were with the Sidewinder.

 

The reason why it was a mandatory requirement was due to the Phantom not having a gun and the trouble it had, not necessarily because the Crusader was so successful with them.

[Baco]

Very likely more to do with the problems to negotiate terms of use for intellectual property with a thoughtless aerospace company...?

 

Yet they got permission for a Harier II plus, F/A 18, F 15 Strike Eagle, F 4 Phantom II, Harpoon and Tomahwk missiles.. weird right? All McDonnell Douglas aircrafts...

[shagrat]

Yet they got permission for a Harier II plus, F/A 18, F 15 Strike Eagle, F 4 Phantom II, Harpoon and Tomahwk missiles.. weird right? All McDonnell Douglas aircrafts...

IIRC there was a 3rd party and they couldn't get a viable deal... Not sure if that is the reason, but most often there is more than one aspect.

 

I personally am absolutely happy that the guys made a community project like this. Not only because it is a nice aircraft fitting to the F-14, but because it is something coming from passion and ingenuity. :)

[TWC_SLAG]

Just to make my feelings clear on the A-4, I’m for it.

[Robert31178]

" ......1v1 with a Phantom, the Crusader ate them alive."

 

Well actually...Once the instructors at Top Gun starting sharing ideas with each other and learning the Phantom inside and out the Crusader RAGU instructors had a tough go at it. You should read "The Scream Of Eagles" by Robert Wilcox, it'll explain a lot of things about the F-4 vs the F-8 for you.

 

I would like to see sources reflecting the 19:1 kill ratio, because as far as I can find is the Crusaders shot down either 18 or 19 MiGs, depending on the source, and also suffered three losses to MiG. I went with 18 and did the grade school fraction reduction to arrive at a 6:1 ratio.

 

One main reason why the F-8 earned so few guns kills is because the cannons had a nasty habit of jamming in conditions where the airplane was loaded with more that one positive G. The two confirmed gun kills were both rear shots in a chase type setting, one MiG was probably trying to disengage, the other never knew the Crusader was there.

 

Razor, for you my man: https://theaviationist.com/2015/01/14/the-most-unusual-mig-killer-the-skyraider-air-to-air-victories-on-north-vietnamese-mig-17s/

[TWC_SLAG]

Looking in Wikipedia, I found all USA kills in Vietnam. It showed 19 kills by the F-8 in two different lists. Another showed 3 shot down, all by MiG-17’s, all with guns. Since the F-4 served longer in Vietnam, and flew more sorties, maybe kills per sortie would put the F-8 in a better light. I was surprised to also find how well the F-105 scored in number of kills. I didn’t, however, look up how many were lost to air to air engagements.

 

One surprise on the lists was two kills by B-52 tail gunners!

 

I still believe the A-4 would be popular, just not as popular as the Crusader, if brought to DCS.

Edited August 7, 2018 by TWC_SLAG
Typo

[Nero.ger]

given the fact that the F4 has been moved back, you can bet that ED does not share your opinion of the popularity of vietnam aera aircraft

[Sport]

given the fact that the F4 has been moved back, you can bet that ED does not share your opinion of the popularity of vietnam aera aircraft

 

Or maybe its for reasons you don't quite know... kind of a rough assumption to make, isn't it?

[TWC_SLAG]

given the fact that the F4 has been moved back, you can bet that ED does not share your opinion of the popularity of vietnam aera aircraft

 

How do you square your assumption of what DCS, or anybody, thinks about Vietnam era aircraft with the A-4, the F-5, the UH-1, the Mig-21, and recent forum discussions about the O-2?

[Nero.ger]

quite simply, F4 has been pushed back, so from a buisness standpoint, ED feels its better to release other modules first. but this thread is not the place to diskuss this

[protea1]

fantastic CANT WAIT!

[shagrat]

quite simply, F4 has been pushed back, so from a buisness standpoint, ED feels its better to release other modules first. but this thread is not the place to diskuss this

Or from an effective resource usage standpoint, or any other reason we don't know... ;) it is what it is.

And from what I've seen and read so far the community A-4E Skyhawk will push the limits of what SFM / FC3 stands for. And not only because it supports clickable cockpit actions...

[uscstaylor]

Man to have a carrier with A-6's, A-4's and A-7's.... I feel faint...Cant wait for this

[Baco]

I personally am absolutely happy that the guys made a community project like this. Not only because it is a nice aircraft fitting to the F-14, but because it is something coming from passion and ingenuity. :)

 

I Most definaly agree, and I am alos thrilled by the A-4!

 

cheers

[carss]

Don't forget, the Forrestal class carriers are also coming for the F-14, which would be perfect for the A-4s ;)