life_rocks Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 I'm so disappointed! I discovered DCS recently - haven't even finished the tutorial missions - but I was so impressed I wanted to buy more. And what does Steam tell me? That the F-15C is wrapped in an extra layer of DRM. That computer-destroying stuff is exactly what almost entirely got me out of gaming a few years back. Steam is the max amount of DRM I will put up with. I'm sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probad Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 (edited) so let me get it right, dcs's drm managed to "destroy your computer" before you ever even used it. must be some powerful stuff. realtalk, dcs's activation hasnt killed anyone's computer, and its not like they're stingy with activation keys either. i think you're being a little irrational here. Edited September 25, 2016 by probad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidfan Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 (edited) DCS DRM can be annoying but it is a fact of life with this sim. Many of us don't like it but we put up with it because it is a necessary, even if we don't agree, evil. I have been using DCS for about six years now and no harm has come to any of my machines as a result of ED's DRM solution. EDIT: While I certainly understand your objections...on a basic level. I think that, perhaps, you might be cutting off your nose to spite your face, in this instance. It is your choice, obviously, but I hope you will reconsider so that you can see just how good this sim can be. Edited September 25, 2016 by cichlidfan 1 ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
life_rocks Posted September 25, 2016 Author Share Posted September 25, 2016 so let me get it right, dcs's drm managed to "destroy your computer" before you ever even used it.. No, other DRM. That bad experience has soured me on the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidfan Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 (edited) No, other DRM. That bad experience has soured me on the whole thing. That sucks, but don't let a bad experience cause you to be soured on the whole concept. EDIT: I would also like to point out that using ED's DRM via Steam is actually more painless, and unobtrusive, than using it on the standalone version. You really won't even notice that is there. Edited September 25, 2016 by cichlidfan ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted September 25, 2016 ED Team Share Posted September 25, 2016 I had a bad beer once, gave me a stomach ache. I did not let it stop me enjoying another one :) A funny analogy I know, but I think you would be doing yourself a disfavour to miss out on hours of fun. It has kept me entertained for years, no other game / sim has done that for me. 1 Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidfan Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 It has kept me entertained for years, no other game / sim has done that for me. The Lego blocks I had as kid probably have DCS beat, from the total hours of entertainment POV. I know my parents would say so. :P ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
life_rocks Posted September 25, 2016 Author Share Posted September 25, 2016 DCS DRM can be annoying but it is a fact of life with this sim. Many of us don't like it but we put up with it because it is a necessary, even if we don't agree, evil. I have been using DCS for about six years now and no harm has come to any of my machines as a result of ED's DRM solution. EDIT: While I certainly understand your objections...on a basic level. I think that, perhaps, you might be cutting off your nose to spite your face, in this instance. It is your choice, obviously, but I hope you will reconsider so that you can see just how good this sim can be. I entirely agree that Iam giving up a lot with this choice, and that's why I am sad. Ultimately, it's a matter of preference: I have little desire to troubleshoot my entertainment and there are many alternatives available but time is precious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidfan Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 (edited) I entirely agree that Iam giving up a lot with this choice, and that's why I am sad. Ultimately, it's a matter of preference: I have little desire to troubleshoot my entertainment and there are many alternatives available but time is precious. I sincerely get that too. To be honest, over the years I have spent a great deal of time troubleshooting my DCS installation, and some other flight sims/games as well. Never because of DRM, though. If you change your mind, I would be happy to see you come back. This sim always needs new blood. EDIT: It occurs to me, that if you have been reading the forums, you might have the impression that the DRM does cause many problems. IMHO, these are actually few an far between. They might appear significant due to the fact that people that have never had problems with the DRM don't make posts just to announce it. Almost every time I see a post about activation problems, with the Mig-21 being an unfortunate exception, I can not help but wonder what these people do to their machines. Unless you are in the habit of cleaning your Registry of things that you 'might' think should not be there, you should never have an issue. Also, I don't work for ED (they would not want me) but I do hate to see anyone waste money and then abandon something for reasons that aren't really an issue. Edited September 25, 2016 by cichlidfan ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
life_rocks Posted September 25, 2016 Author Share Posted September 25, 2016 Also, I don't work for ED (they would not want me) but I do hate to see anyone waste money and then abandon something for reasons that aren't really an issue. No worries, money hadn't changed hands yet. The Steam store warns you about the 3rd party DRM. Incidentally, I couldn't help but notice that ED's store did not disclose the addition on DRM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidfan Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 No worries, money hadn't changed hands yet. The Steam store warns you about the 3rd party DRM. Incidentally, I couldn't help but notice that ED's store did not disclose the addition on DRM. It is the same DRM from ED. They don't post a warning since it is not in addition, or instead of, their own DRM, which is the case with Steam. Remember, Steam has DRM, it is just invisible to you. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkateZilla Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Saying you don't want DRM, then Stating you run Steam, is an Oxy-Moron. 1 Windows 10 Pro, Ryzen 2700X @ 4.6Ghz, 32GB DDR4-3200 GSkill (F4-3200C16D-16GTZR x2), ASRock X470 Taichi Ultimate, XFX RX6800XT Merc 310 (RX-68XTALFD9) 3x ASUS VS248HP + Oculus HMD, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS + MFDs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidfan Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Saying you don't want DRM, then Stating you run Steam, is an Oxy-Moron. With all due respect, most people don't see Steam as DRM because they almost never have to interact with the DRM side of things in any direct way. I can't fault the OP from seeing the Starforce method as being something completely different from the Steam method. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitness88 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 What is DRM? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidfan Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Digital Rights Management ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitness88 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Digital Rights Management Thanks cichlidfan, is that a software that verifies serial numbers, [legitimate ownership]? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidfan Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 Exactly what and how it tracks things can vary with the vendor, but that is the general idea. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitness88 Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 Exactly what and how it tracks things can vary with the vendor, but that is the general idea. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xaoslaad Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 Saying you don't want DRM, then Stating you run Steam, is an Oxy-Moron. Steam and Starforce are practically Apples and oranges in the way they behave. I have literally never had to troubleshoot Steam let alone its DRM aspects, run out of activations for a Steam game, had to reactivate my collection because of a graphics card change, delete registry keys related to activation for a friend so he could get the game to activate, or had to work with someone to figure out their TS3 press-to-talk key was what was causing reactivation windows to pop up while loading DCS. That stuff, while much of it is fairly minor in the grand scheme of things, is punishing to customers and simply non-existent with Steams approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomOnSteam Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 Just fly the free modules then, it's fun enough :) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cockpit Spectator Mode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
life_rocks Posted September 26, 2016 Author Share Posted September 26, 2016 Saying you don't want DRM, then Stating you run Steam, is an Oxy-Moron. Ignoring the personal attack, I never said that. What I said was: That computer-destroying stuff is exactly what almost entirely got me out of gaming a few years back. Steam is the max amount of DRM I will put up with. I have avoided Steam for literally a decade for this very reason, only changed once I got a computer dedicated to games (so there's nothing important for the DRM to mess up). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
life_rocks Posted September 26, 2016 Author Share Posted September 26, 2016 Just fly the free modules then, it's fun enough :) I may, it's just a bummer that I can't then buy more planes or missions to leverage what I'd have learned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
life_rocks Posted September 26, 2016 Author Share Posted September 26, 2016 I also wanted to add, and I say this without sarcasm, that when I leave I will also be missing out on a great community. You all seem very nice and helpful, and have been patient with a complaint that was bound to be unpopular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cibit Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 My best and oldest gaming buddy refuses to get DCSW because of the DRM, I keep telling him he is a foolish man and the days of starforce destroying optical drives is so 2003:P Get with the program dude, if you have a PC dedicated to gaming what have you got to loose? Steam is way more invidious than anything Eagle Dynamics installs onto our machines i5 8600k@5.2Ghz, Asus Prime A Z370, 32Gb DDR4 3000, GTX1080 SC, Oculus Rift CV1, Modded TM Warthog Modded X52 Collective, Jetseat, W10 Pro 64 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Adding JTAC Guide //My Vid's//229th AHB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkateZilla Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 (edited) Ignoring the personal attack, I never said that. What I said was: I have avoided Steam for literally a decade for this very reason, only changed once I got a computer dedicated to games (so there's nothing important for the DRM to mess up). Please define the "personal attack"?, Steam itself is a DRM Platform, even if a Title does not have a separate DRM System, Steam Itself is a DRM Platform, it manages your digital rights for the games you own. Edited September 26, 2016 by SkateZilla Windows 10 Pro, Ryzen 2700X @ 4.6Ghz, 32GB DDR4-3200 GSkill (F4-3200C16D-16GTZR x2), ASRock X470 Taichi Ultimate, XFX RX6800XT Merc 310 (RX-68XTALFD9) 3x ASUS VS248HP + Oculus HMD, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS + MFDs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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