F-22 destroys the Su-27 in super maneuverbility

[Pilotasso]

I guess Poland has a more developed air force than Portugal (with Poland having f16 block 52+ together with the German mig29’s for a start) ;)

 

Im sure if we remotedly needed better aircraft than our MLU/block 50 aircraft we would probably have twice as many as better planes than poland does, as we had untill just months ago. ;)

 

The term more developed is not accurate because it not only requires the planes but the infrastructures too, and Im not talking about aircraft shelters; and trained pilots as well.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Im sure if we remotedly needed better aircraft than our MLU/block 50 aircraft we would probably have twice as many as better planes than poland does, as we had untill just months ago. ;)

Same as Russia and Su-35's. If they need them they will build them.

 

It was you however, who argued that Su-35 is not in active service and can not be compared with F-22?

[Pilotasso]

Theres a difference because if russia started to build those Su-35's they would probably be different than the config they once had (intended) because they would not continue developing almost decade old technology unfinished onboard equipment but to restart reserch again. I dont know whats best, going for the Su-35 or start preparing a next gen fighter. If I were the russians I would probably get half way by getting Su-30's with current tested equipemt that is exported untill the new type is ready, like those India has taking out the israely and french stuff. Im still wayting to see what will come but so far its been quiet, dead quiet.

 

About my countries planes, we got them in 1994 and there is no aircraft in its class that can replace it for any reasonable amount of money, specialy when they are still only halfway their airframe lives. Chances are we will get F-35 in 20 years or so when they drop the price because they are far too expensive now to rush after that purchase. That is if my country doesnt quit using fighters alltogether.

 

We have 28 F-16's in service out of a total possible 40 (12 are being offered for sale after MLU upgrade but might remain here if no clients are found). My country is 700Km long by 250 wide. we can send them anywhere in the contry within minutes and spare some for operations abroad. Being able to do BVR and with the reliable AMRAAM missiles I dont think we need more nor can we compare with Russia. It is surrounded by other global players wich are aquiring probably better planes and threaten to catch up in numbers as well. Russia needs cutting edge planes with reliable missiles and modern onboard equipment NOW. In my view the best deterrent they have is the Mig-31, but its not as versatile as a modern advanced flanker could be.

[emptyspiral]

I love both the F-22 AND the Su-27.Both have distinct advantages and disadvantages against each other.I am sure the F-22 is capable of a lot more than we know, but in that video, it barely matched, let alone "destroyed" anything.No where near what a lot of videos of the Su-27 show :megalol:

 

I didn't read through a lot of these pages, but as for which is better, who knows.Like anything else, it would all come down to pilot skill, and who see's who first.(That part gives the 22 a very large advantage, but it never guarantees a win)I don't see the use of Cobra's and slow high AoA maneuvers in combat though.Perhaps I am wrong but it seems energy is life in a dogfight...And from what I have seen the Cobra and similar moves, leave you slow and exposed...So if the two ever met close in in real life(hopefully they never do),I doubt we'd see either using these sorts of maneuvers.Maybe I'm wrong though, :huh: Not like I'm an expert:smartass: :doh:

[Pilotasso]

^^^^you are far to impressionable by airshow perfomances to make any accurate judgements of their actual combat advantages over each other, wich the flanker barely has any at all and then Im talking about the very best of them.

[emptyspiral]

^^^^you are far to impressionable by airshow perfomances to make any accurate judgements of their actual combat advantages over each other, wich the flanker barely has any at all and then Im talking about the very best of them.

 

Who said anything about only combat advantages?There are other areas to compare.Whatever advantages one has over the other, big or small, many or few, are indeed, distinct.And in fact, I said that these sorts of maneuvers, however impressive they are, are of little use in a real life combat situation.Don't pretend to know how impressionable I am, or what I know.;)

[VVanks]

Wow 21 pages...

 

All I posted was a google video!

[Pilotasso]

F-22 VS flanker fetishes is plentifull. Threads like this are always successfull unless trolling gets rampant at the start. :)

[emptyspiral]

Wow 21 pages...

 

All I posted was a google video!

 

On a very hot topic it seems, lol

[VVanks]

Well I'm glad the temperature of this thread is kept to a bare minimum.

 

Testing new sig out:

 

(it's 150px high and only 29kbs, good enough?)

[Skopro_PL]

LOL J/K just pulling your leg.

 

Anyway, theres a big difference between polands old mig-21's on grass and other more developed countries who can use better planes/surfaces. The falcons main gear is actualy quite strong.

 

 

mig-21's ????? yeah those have been outta commision for a while, also to my knowledge never used mig21's to do those landings mostly su22 and mig29...and it has nothing to do with better surfaces and planes.. it has to do with the probability that runways can be destroyed, and when that happens the pilots have the capability to land on any grass strip or country road ,and u those for a makeshift base..and the last sentence i have to say is that u must not read f-16.net and look at all the news about how a f-16's landing gear somewhere collapsed on landing,also have u never seen ground crews walking the runways everyday looking for stones and pebbles on the runways, that aside could u imagine a viper landing on any surface other than a perfectly clear runway and not being damaged...

[Guest IguanaKing]

The differences between Eastern and Western aircraft are based on differing warfighting doctrine. Who's way is best would only be determined by who was able to get their oppostion to fight on their terms. Yes, its true that Eastern aircraft have the ability to handle the ingestion of FOD...and so do Western aircraft (in fact, Western engines are not certified until they pass both FOD and water ingestion tests). The alloys used in Eastern engines are softer, so they absorb impacts from debris better...but they also wear out FAR SOONER, even in a perfect environment.

 

BTW...on the F-15 ACTIVE and F-16 VISTA/MATV aircraft that GG mentioned earlier, have a look at the NASA web-site and do a search for those aircraft. There is a fairly good amount of information on both, what their purpose was, and what they achieved. These were purely test aircraft though, so don't expect to find NASA tooting their horn through the media. Their purpose was to experiment with new concepts for possible, practical use on other aircraft in the future, NOT to break any records or impress people at airshows.

 

I'm thinking the theories about safety are pretty solid when it comes to why an F-22 doesn't show what its actually capable of. It is a very expensive aircraft. Besides, one thing to remember is that airshows involving these types of maneuvers with CIS aircraft have fairly frequently given free advertising for how excellent Zvezda ejection seats are. :smilewink: As for the Kobra...airshow maneuver...always has been, always will be. You do that in combat, you die...plain and simple. :D

[coldcrew]

for all the hoopla, it doesn't even do it right. it's slow and sluggish and it looked for the better half of the snap that he was going up. the su27 almost sits still at the top of the loop and then the nose falls rapidly

[-GI- Xfire]

when the f22 can do this i would be impressed, but that wasnt enough to beat an russian aircraft.....

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK-cWOFtiJc

 

btw: yes i know its a mig29ovt

[Pilotasso]

when the f22 can do this i would be impressed, but that wasnt enough to beat an russian aircraft.....

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK-cWOFtiJc

 

btw: yes i know its a mig29ovt

 

I hope that affirmation is in the context of airshow perfomance... ;)

[Guest IguanaKing]

I'm sorry, but that didn't look like controlled flight to me after the tail slide of the MiG. I believe "controlled flight" is what some people here are referring to as "sluggishness". :music_whistling:

[Force_Feedback]

No, that's a good example of the f-22 budget spendures, very, very controlled.... Maybe in 20 years, when the fat cats have their own major businessess, maybe then the F0-22 will get a normal FCS, or maybe they can hire some Chinese students to do it for 1/100th of the cost. In any case, FCS programming seems to be the most suitable job for lazy bums that want to smoke pot all day and earn 400k a year.

 

BTW, I've seen that live on tv, lol. was zapping around, and suddenly I saw a mig on some german channel :P My german sucks a**, but it sounds like that 'aviation expert' is such a tard, he said something like that the eurofighter's canards have the same function as the TVC nozzles, lol. Sure, a sticking out pop rivet is also a steering device :lol: Canards create vorticies, engines too, wow, soo both are to control the aerodynamic airflow. Oh well, that's why I hate the 'profession' of a journalist, all you do is reproduce info, and with your own intelligence and view of the world as influences that will in turn ruin your orjectivity, that you were certain you had when you started with your journalism career :\ Wankers, copiers are way better at what they do :P

 

And, when the heck will they start building something new, and stop putting old RD-33 engines in 'new' frames? Guess it's the same story as with the B-52. And, an old tradition back from the Soviet times, the projected engine developments will lag behind 4-5 years with the rest of the airframe.

[zare]

Sukhoi P701 / PAK-FA 5th generation fighter schematics :

 

 

:pilotfly:

[chennuts]

aaaaahahahaha

[51GRIZZLY]

Posted By Zare:

Sukhoi P701 / PAK-FA 5th generation fighter schematics :

 

Codename Bird of prey :D

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

I hope that affirmation is in the context of airshow perfomance... ;)

Your hope is unfounded. Because the purpose of the MiG-29OVT flight demonstration was to show thrust vectoring. And it did, and nothing on earth (other then Sukhoi thrust vectoring) can match it.

[GGTharos]

X-31.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

X-31.

Cool. I wasn't aware of it. Any videos showing X-31 in action?

[Pilotasso]

Whats great about the X-31 was that it was based on the F-20 tigershark airframe. ;)

[GGTharos]

Yep, the F-5 really has so many neat derivatives :)

 

You can read about it here Hajduk.

 

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/news/FactSheets/FS-009-DFRC.html

 

 

I don't think you will find any 'airshow' videos for it though - you can probably expect most videos if you find any to be quite boring since the X-31's sole purpose was scientific testing of controllability in post-stall regimes, and enhanced maneuverability in normal flight envelopes.