Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9

[mia389]

There is a button that marks your position on the knee board. Problem is the kneeboard is for pre programed flights. Once you fly outside the mission editors waypoints the kneeboard doesnt follow you. It follows the waypoints. This is why we can not get rid of F10 map. Choppers would get it the worst.

 

If the ME has a waypoint on sochi and you take off from Mozdock and fly south towards vazani, you have no way of navigating. Same with doing it the other way around. Im talking about FC3 aircraft using kneeboard (Pilotage). We all know FC3 has no VOR/Tacan. How do you guys expect the FC3 aircraft to navigate? You can try this right now with current setup.

 

Helis would also be screwed. Again kneeboard only shows waypoints in editor on the sectional charts. They would havt to reley on CTLD radio beacons at farp locations. Helis would still have problems finding which valley because of the sectional issue.

 

The only aircraft turning the map off would work with is the A10, M2000,Mi8, ka50,gazelle,Mig21, and F5. Would also need CTLD beacons installed. Not sure Migs and F5s could find farps.

Edited June 26, 2017 by mia389

[OperatorJack]

I feel as though until DCS has a provision where you can plan a flight yourself without going into the mission editor, the F10 map is vital, as mia said helos will be hit worst if it's removed.

[mia389]

I feel as though until DCS has a provision where you can plan a flight yourself without going into the mission editor, the F10 map is vital, as mia said helos will be hit worst if it's removed.

 

I never understood why that wasnt added.

[AbortedMan]

There is a button that marks your position on the knee board. Problem is the kneeboard is for pre programed flights. Once you fly outside the mission editors waypoints the kneeboard doesnt follow you. It follows the waypoints. This is why we can not get rid of F10 map. Choppers would get it the worst.

 

If the ME has a waypoint on sochi and you take off from Mozdock and fly south towards vazani, you have no way of navigating. Same with doing it the other way around. Im talking about FC3 aircraft using kneeboard (Pilotage). We all know FC3 has no VOR/Tacan. How do you guys expect the FC3 aircraft to navigate? You can try this right now with current setup.

 

Helis would also be screwed. Again kneeboard only shows waypoints in editor on the sectional charts. They would havt to reley on CTLD radio beacons at farp locations. Helis would still have problems finding which valley because of the sectional issue.

 

The only aircraft turning the map off would work with is the A10, M2000,Mi8, ka50,gazelle,Mig21, and F5. Would also need CTLD beacons installed. Not sure Migs and F5s could find farps.

 

People navigate in WW2 sims like IL2:BoS just fine without map aids.

[CrashO]

This is why we can not get rid of F10 map. Choppers would get it the worst.

 

The only aircraft turning the map off would work with is the A10, M2000,Mi8, ka50,gazelle,Mig21, and F5. Would also need CTLD beacons installed. Not sure Migs and F5s could find farps.

As someone who spends about half his time in blueflag flying the Huey. I don't have any problems navigating without the map. At startup I draw a line from my spawn location to my target. (something a magical marker isn't required for, and I could even do if we just had gadget) and mark that heading in my compass-ring.

 

If it's a farp/commArray, i'll just start flying towards it at that point and start looking for smokestacks once I feel i'm getting getting close. If the target is an airfield, I enter one of the beacons at the airfield and check it's sort-off in the same direction my compass-heading that I setup is. And then just fly the direction it indicates.

 

The Gazelle has it even easier, just enter the coordinates in the INS and fly the arrow.

 

So if anything, all we need is radio beacons at the farps/sam sites.

Edited June 26, 2017 by CrashO

[OperatorJack]

People navigate in WW2 sims like IL2:BoS just fine without map aids.

You can also visually distinguish units on the ground and in the air quite reasonably in IL-2. Something DCS has yet to manage.

[ApoNOOB]

Mi8 pilot here: I do actual flightplanning, plotting navaids etc. F10 map does NOT affect us like that. This is even a little demeaning. :D

 

Don't look at rotorheads with F10 - not our problem. This is a FC3 problem.^^

[iLOVEwindmills]

Sounds like the people who don't want to use the F10 marker already don't use it. Good, problem solved.

[Tj1376]

Do you ever anticipate adding wind to the map? Not clouds, wind.

 

If the answer to this is yes, I'd leave the f10 map alone.

 

I'm not even sure if DCS models how wind pushes an airframe but if it does, drawing a straight line and inputting the compass direction and flying it won't work as you will track differently across the ground.

 

I don't see many DCS flightsimmers picking up an e6b and getting a weather briefing prior to their sortie so they can plan accordingly...

 

I am up for trying it, so if you want to give it a shot for a few days let's do it. But if you want to add any weather at all, we are going to need beacons at farps and sams. Fc3 guys will always be hosed, but they are least impacted by it. They can gain altitude quickly to find landmarks. That's a little harder in the Huey and Hip.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tyrant07]

Personally I use the F10 map for an initial heading for the FC3 aircraft and use it as a flight planning tool for the Viggen. Being able to visually pick nav points and then also being able to get the target Elevation while in game makes flight planning with it so much easier.

 

I can see both sides of the argument for losing it. However, due to the tech available in today's world (and since the 90's for the most part) and for the ease of my Viggen sanity, I cant support getting rid of it until a better alternative is presented.

[CrashO]

Personally I use the F10 map for an initial heading for the FC3 aircraft and use it as a flight planning tool for the Viggen. Being able to visually pick nav points and then also being able to get the target Elevation while in game makes flight planning with it so much easier.

Well, the entire map doesn't have to go. Just it showing your location. You can still plan your flight whilst spooling on the ground. Most of the discussion is about getting rid of the "magical" function that provides your location on it.

[AbortedMan]

Personally I use the F10 map for an initial heading for the FC3 aircraft and use it as a flight planning tool for the Viggen. Being able to visually pick nav points and then also being able to get the target Elevation while in game makes flight planning with it so much easier.

 

I can see both sides of the argument for losing it. However, due to the tech available in today's world (and since the 90's for the most part) and for the ease of my Viggen sanity, I cant support getting rid of it until a better alternative is presented.

 

No one wants to get rid of the map, just the icon that shows your position on the map.

 

@TJ, regarding wind...again this is done easily in WW2 sims with no NDBs or beacons with much more interference from weather/wind due to the nature of the airframes. It's just another skill to sharpen. I think rivers/lakes/mountains/landmasses are distinguishable enough in DCS that it's not that difficult...that's just my opinion though.

Edited June 26, 2017 by AbortedMan

[Tyrant07]

No one wants to get rid of the map, just the icon that shows your position on the map.

 

Gotcha, I misread apparently.

[Jman]

FYI, removing the f10 icon was previously tried not many were happy with it and they ended up adding it back.

[M0ltar]

Lots of lag today. Not really sure what is causing it, but it has been a sporadic issue all day.

[Thymo]

How do people think about pulling communications skills to a higher level?

 

There are times on SRS that comms are really good and brevity gets used correctly.

However more often than not there are people simply having a chat or having no clue what they're talking about on the net. This can really be an immersion killer to the people looking to fly sorties in a realistic environment.

 

I do really understand that some people that are just getting into it are still having trouble with figuring out what to say and when. I'd be more than happy to help those people out with improving their radio skills. I've already been teaching radio communications on Arma 3 for RTO and JTAC roles, I could easily adapt those classes to an aviation standpoint to help you out.

[Hollywood126]

@Ciribob I thought you said the M2000 was back as interceptor lives? I just used my last standard life with it.

 

*EDIT - was a misread on my part, "Now NOT classed as an interceptor"

Edited June 26, 2017 by Hollywood126

[CrashO]

@Thymo

Well, on communications there is a lot of "lemmings" behavior. If you got enough people using it correctly, the rest will start mimicking the communications. And communications are generally pretty good in those situations. About a 50% group who knows what their doing + 50% "noob" works itselfs out to some pretty decent radio chatter. But if the first group gets outnumbered 1/4 by the other ones.. it becomes noticeable... fast

 

Those other times, you got one or two "TEST RADIO WORKIE?" people on 264,-, and before you know it everyone and their hamster are doing commChecks on GCI freq stepping over BRA's. And it becomes gradually worse from there. Then you also get the "Interceptor 69 i am seeing so... mething fly.... front me flying... he there... flying.... i see... flying ... i.. fire" calls every minute on 264.

Edited June 26, 2017 by CrashO

[Thymo]

@CrashO

That's exactly what I mean yes.

I think this can be resolved by running classes or at least get documentation or SOPs which explain how to use to vocal cords.

[CrashO]

I don't think you can. People who want to learn already do. People who don't care, don't, And just mimic what they hear on the radio. And even the other Reapers give me shit when I ask people (after they have done a radioCheck 264, after every startup...) to move that stuff over to 251. Most players just don't care.

Edited June 26, 2017 by CrashO

[microvax]

random SRS moments:

 

Can anyone tell me how to bomb in mirage ?

 

HES ROLLING HES ROLLING.

 

IM SPIKED FLARE FLARE FLARE.

 

Also GCIs which think they are Picard or something continuously calling bra's and ending with "engage".

 

Sometimes its annoying but in general its mostly funny.

And I agree most people just pick up stuff so lead by example is the way to improve the whole thing I guess. Also lower voice for extra cool radio calls.

[AbortedMan]

random SRS moments:

 

Can anyone tell me how to bomb in mirage ?

 

HES ROLLING HES ROLLING.

 

IM SPIKED FLARE FLARE FLARE.

 

Also GCIs which think they are Picard or something continuously calling bra's and ending with "engage".

 

Sometimes its annoying but in general its mostly funny.

And I agree most people just pick up stuff so lead by example is the way to improve the whole thing I guess. Also lower voice for extra cool radio calls.

 

My favorite is hearing "be advised" before every single statement or the random "FOX 2!!!!" over GCI net with zero context or addressing to anyone...they just really want everyone to know they got to fire a missile.

[iLOVEwindmills]

Lots of lag today. Not really sure what is causing it, but it has been a sporadic issue all day.

 

Tons of ground units? That's the main thing I noticed and it was somewhat laggy from the start of the round. There's an entire squad of Iglas standing next to sochi for instance.

[AbortedMan]

Be advised is also handy. For every single statement, no. But when a hostile is tracking towards a friendly, <currently busy with another bandit>, I inform him on this using "Be advised, second fighter hot on you, 240 for 30". But yes, it doesn't make sense to do that with every blip on the map.

But when flying, I sure like to know if I can expect a second (or third) bandit imminently. Helps me deciding what ammo to select (or more, what ammo to save...), when to break off, etc.

 

Just doesn't make sense to me...the syntax is all goofy: "Be advised <I'm about to advise you>...<here is the information>"

 

...just say the information and consider them advised.

[M0ltar]

Just doesn't make sense to me...the syntax is all goofy: "Be advised <I'm about to advise you>...<here is the information>"

 

...just say the information and consider them advised.

Be advised is not something that needs to be said. Radio chatter should be as short and to the point as possible. When talking to someone be advised is redundant.

 

Reaper 2-1, Bison 1-2. Bandit 2 o'clock low, 40nm, hot.

 

That conveys everything. Who you want to talk to, who is talking, what the topic is, and the information about it. Be advised is something that drives me nuts on the radio and is redundent in comms.

 

If anyone has questions about radio and/or magic calls let me know. Hell I'm not above putting on a powwow for new pilots in blue flag. No I'm not the best, but I like to think I have an idea on what should be going on. Radio comms make a massive difference. I think a lot of people just get overwhelmed and intimidated about asking some of the more experienced players questions.