Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9

[M0ltar]

He has said that!! It's funny because you're making a facetious joke, but it's reality...he and others have continuously said exactly that!

FFS guys my comment was... You know what, it's not even worth it. I'll talk about it on TS if I ever see you guys on, but arguing on the forums with you guys is pointless.

 

By the way, my comment was in favor of keeping the F15 with all it's bags because the person I quoted said we should limit them and had nothing to do with the exploit or anything. Won't lie, I've used it in the past, i.e. several rounds ago, but don't support it now and won't use it.

 

Tldr you guys need to chill the f*** out. All I see from most of you is attacks and being dicks. This goes to everyone. Not just the people attacking me.

[AbortedMan]

Stop hurting all players because a few airquake.

This is the price that must be paid for guaranteed fair play within the intended rules of the server. If all players see it has being hurt, then they're not realizing what the alternative is of being hurt more by people gaming the system and breaking rules.

 

Edit: no comment on the lack of m2k airframes? Sure seems to me that people have stopped using them.

 

I still see a bunch of Mirages...more than FC3 aircraft...but apparently it sure seems to you a lot of things others don't see, heh. So, who knows.

 

I don't think DataLink or Su27 getting 20% fuel to start is why Mirage would be absent...if anything the fuel, D2M, and INS alignment is what did it.

[OperatorJack]

FFS guys my comment was... You know what, it's not even worth it. I'll talk about it on TS if I ever see you guys on, but arguing on the forums with you guys is pointless.

 

By the way, my comment was in favor of keeping the F15 with all it's bags because the person I quoted said we should limit them and had nothing to do with the exploit or anything. Won't lie, I've used it in the past, i.e. several rounds ago, but don't support it now and won't use it.

 

Tldr you guys need to chill the f*** out. All I see from most of you is attacks and being dicks. This goes to everyone. Not just the people attacking me.

It's quite clear that people can't be trusted not to use the exploit. Especially with the F-15 not being able to feed the engines from the bags with empty internal tanks IRL anyway.

 

To be honest there's no massive drawback to limiting bags. We want people to think about their lives more, why not have them consider stores? More asymmetrical balance is a good thing IMHO

[AbortedMan]

FFS guys my comment was... You know what, it's not even worth it. I'll talk about it on TS if I ever see you guys on, but arguing on the forums with you guys is pointless.

 

By the way, my comment was in favor of keeping the F15 with all it's bags because the person I quoted said we should limit them and had nothing to do with the exploit or anything. Won't lie, I've used it in the past, i.e. several rounds ago, but don't support it now and won't use it.

 

Tldr you guys need to chill the f*** out. All I see from most of you is attacks and being dicks. This goes to everyone. Not just the people attacking me.

 

This isn't an attack. I pointed out a fact that was ironic because he was being facetious. You did say that the Su27 should get 27ERs.

[M0ltar]

This isn't an attack. I pointed out a fact that was ironic because he was being facetious. You did say that the Su27 should get 27ERs.

I have said that in the past, yes, when we were talking about giving the Flanker something. I dont think it should have ERs at this point because it has datalink. I just thought it needed something. Like maybe datalink or ERs or something. It was more of an either/or and not both.

 

I think how the fuel sits, given how the game is setup and the games limitations is the best we are going to get. Full fuel would be cool, but I think, like I said earlier, since the planes are not always on the ground they are spawned in causes more issues than it fixes.

[microvax]

How about this:

 

I dont see a problem with fighters.

 

I have never seen a problem with fighters so far.

 

I didnt like the high Mirage density, thats gone now as I hear.

That is nice, diversity is nice, more slaugthered FC3 scrubs, also nice. [insert soulless evil Mirage pilot laughter] [And please for the sake of my sanity notice the sarcasm; thanks]

 

3 lives over 6 hours imho is no spam. That doesnt even remotely qualify for spam.

If close in respawns of shot down fighters are considered a problem, up defences, although SAM density is already a lot higher, so dunno, more short range defences would be nice I guess.

 

 

Pilot Skill matters, discuss more how to do things and how to do them better then what is wrong and why $operation didnt work because $thing is not fair.

For me countering stuff is really a key component of the fun.

 

 

I think Dl for el Flanker and putting the flying Iluminati confirmed death lazor rocket punch Toyota 2000 plug in hybrid pastry launch system on a slight dampener is a nice decision.

More is not needed imho.

[AbortedMan]

Pilot Skill matters, discuss more how to do things and how to do them better then what is wrong and why $operation didnt work because $thing is not fair.

For me countering stuff is really a key component of the fun.

 

I've brought exactly this up before and got skewered for it because everyone believes that they're doing everything 100% the right way every time in every engagement. This is what started the last 50 pages of debate, actually. I've even highlighted when other people have said that we should be talking about pilot skill and practices for extra effect, and for some reason it comes off as I'm just attacking people. I don't understand the world anymore.

[microvax]

It's not what you say, but how you say it.

 

EDIT: Cant wait for the aim9x debate guys.

[OperatorJack]

It's not what you say, but how you say it.

 

EDIT: Cant wait for the aim9x debate guys.

And the hotly anticipated AIM-54 debate.

[mia389]

Well, it's not just the fuel that has been removed. so have been the MissileDetection system and the INS pre-alignment.

 

Fuel+Rearming from 0% takes 3,5 minutes in the mirage. INS align takes 8 minutes.

And while you can fly without aligning, by defaulting back to magnetic backup. It sucks thoroughly. So yes, less Mirages. But not just because of having to wait 3 minutes for fuel.

 

Whatever the case, less Mirages = Good! I like seeing the Su27s and F15s battle it out again. Much better match up. Much less M2000 spamming as well.

[microvax]

And the hotly anticipated AIM-54 debate.

 

I dunno the AIM54 has no counterpart so I guess its just not going to be a thing and except a few hardcore asymetric balance advocates its not going to generate much buzz.

 

Possibly also the "f14 is designed around aim54" thingy. Which is arguably true but arguably the F14 is fleet defence and we dont really do that here.

 

 

The aim9x debate is going to be heated because it will probably outclass the r73 and is going to be strong, even if people overhype it, so people are going to say F18 cant have it because so stronk. Then The f18 people are going to counter but the su27 has the r73 which is not that much worse. Then we will have a discussion again that the Su27 is kinda between a rock and a hard place in terms of equipment and its performance and this setup.

Then we have the f18 beeing outperformed flight regime, but the su27 not having its peer to peer link, which the f18 is going to have.

 

So there is a lot more explosive mass with that discussion then with the AIM54 one.

 

Gotta bookmark my post so I can pull it out on every occurance of said things in the future and brag how right I was. :megalol:

[karambiatos]

Aim-9x in a 80s scenario you say?

[CrashO]

Instead of limiting and removing all options to even them out, and castrating aircraft, how about just giving them all their toys and let them fly as intended? But make them "more expensive" to use when they pack more punch.

 

So decrease fighter lives from 3 to 2. But give them all-weapons and systems they are supposed to have. So ET, ER and Spamraam galore. Just limit them to main bases so they got to fly a bit. But let them re-arm and refuel their toys anywhere.

 

And move the Mirage from fighters, to interceptors, so grouped with the F-5 and Mig-21 (and all QRA ready, fueled and aligned on front-lines).

 

And when the F-14 hits, just give him his AIM54. And based on how it performs, decide how many lives it gets and how far the carrier is stuck. This also levels out the F-18, since the flankers got their ET's to counter the Aim9x.

[Tj1376]

This is the price that must be paid for guaranteed fair play within the intended rules of the server. If all players see it has being hurt, then they're not realizing what the alternative is of being hurt more by people gaming the system and breaking rules.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I still see a bunch of Mirages...more than FC3 aircraft...but apparently it sure seems to you a lot of things others don't see, heh. So, who knows.

 

 

 

I don't think DataLink or Su27 getting 20% fuel to start is why Mirage would be absent...if anything the fuel, D2M, and INS alignment is what did it.

 

 

 

I played for almost six hours today (slow day at work.) once we had 55 people online and only two mirages.

 

I actually think we swayed it too far. I just wanted equal fuel. Not sure needing ins and removal of missile launch warning was necessary...

 

TJ

 

 

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[mia389]

I dunno the AIM54 has no counterpart so I guess its just not going to be a thing and except a few hardcore asymetric balance advocates its not going to generate much buzz.

 

Possibly also the "f14 is designed around aim54" thingy. Which is arguably true but arguably the F14 is fleet defence and we dont really do that here.

 

 

The aim9x debate is going to be heated because it will probably outclass the r73 and is going to be strong, even if people overhype it, so people are going to say F18 cant have it because so stronk. Then The f18 people are going to counter but the su27 has the r73 which is not that much worse. Then we will have a discussion again that the Su27 is kinda between a rock and a hard place in terms of equipment and its performance and this setup.

Then we have the f18 beeing outperformed flight regime, but the su27 not having its peer to peer link, which the f18 is going to have.

 

So there is a lot more explosive mass with that discussion then with the AIM54 one.

 

Gotta bookmark my post so I can pull it out on every occurance of said things in the future and brag how right I was. :megalol:

 

 

Just because a module is released doesn't mean it needs to be in BF :-).

[M0ltar]

Instead of limiting and removing all options to even them out, and castrating aircraft, how about just giving them all their toys and let them fly as intended? But make them "more expensive" to use when they pack more punch.

 

So decrease fighter lives from 3 to 2. But give them all-weapons and systems they are supposed to have. So ET, ER and Spamraam galore. Just limit them to main bases so they got to fly a bit. But let them re-arm and refuel their toys anywhere.

 

And move the Mirage from fighters, to interceptors, so grouped with the F-5 and Mig-21 (and all QRA ready, fueled and aligned on front-lines).

 

And when the F-14 hits, just give him his AIM54. And based on how it performs, decide how many lives it gets and how far the carrier is stuck. This also levels out the F-18, since the flankers got their ET's to counter the Aim9x.

I'd be all for this.

[Thrud]

Epic battle for Sabuli. There was blue cap EVERYWHERE hunting for red choppers. Im not sure how blue did not take that farp.

 

Red has 2 troop ships, Mi-8 & UH-1

Blue has 1, UH-1

 

Gazelle troop ability was removed on all models for some reason unknown to me.

 

My suggested solution is to make the all Red UH-1 slots into Mi-8 slots or perhaps give some Gazelles troop ability (of course I'd suggest the Mistral, but I'm biased)

[microvax]

Just because a module is released doesn't mean it needs to be in BF :-).

 

hehe. You know it will ;D

[CrashO]

Red has 2 troop ships, Mi-8 & UH-1

Blue has 1, UH-1

Gazelle troop ability was removed on all models for some reason unknown to me.

Did a check on that yesterday. Currently:

Gazelle-Mistral: Bomber + Crates

Gazelle-M: Crates

Gazelle-L: Crates

And none of them can carry troops at the moment. So that makes the L only useful for moving fuel around.. So that one is probably going to be the best option to give troops, as it's similar to the Huey, in that it can only use guns + rockets. But is a lot slower to fly with.

[microvax]

Instead of limiting and removing all options to even them out, and castrating aircraft, how about just giving them all their toys and let them fly as intended? But make them "more expensive" to use when they pack more punch.

 

So decrease fighter lives from 3 to 2. But give them all-weapons and systems they are supposed to have. So ET, ER and Spamraam galore. Just limit them to main bases so they got to fly a bit. But let them re-arm and refuel their toys anywhere.

 

And move the Mirage from fighters, to interceptors, so grouped with the F-5 and Mig-21 (and all QRA ready, fueled and aligned on front-lines).

 

And when the F-14 hits, just give him his AIM54. And based on how it performs, decide how many lives it gets and how far the carrier is stuck. This also levels out the F-18, since the flankers got their ET's to counter the Aim9x.

 

The problem I see with all out war is range. some airports/farps are so close there is no space for the longer ranged weapons imho. SA11 at airports and SA3 at cities is stretching it already imho.

 

And please ET countering aim9x. This is like I dunno. MOAB countering SDB2. Its two different classes of weapons with different strengths on different airframes. Its not matching up at all.

 

Oh god why did I just touch that god damn pandoras box.

 

 

Again:

I am happy with the current situation. Thanks. :thumbup:

[AbortedMan]

Instead of limiting and removing all options to even them out, and castrating aircraft, how about just giving them all their toys and let them fly as intended? But make them "more expensive" to use when they pack more punch.

 

So decrease fighter lives from 3 to 2. But give them all-weapons and systems they are supposed to have. So ET, ER and Spamraam galore. Just limit them to main bases so they got to fly a bit. But let them re-arm and refuel their toys anywhere.

 

And move the Mirage from fighters, to interceptors, so grouped with the F-5 and Mig-21 (and all QRA ready, fueled and aligned on front-lines).

 

And when the F-14 hits, just give him his AIM54. And based on how it performs, decide how many lives it gets and how far the carrier is stuck. This also levels out the F-18, since the flankers got their ET's to counter the Aim9x.

 

Having specialized ordnance airfields that you cannot spawn at but have to fly to is a great idea.

 

Would it be on the frontline or protected deep in your own territory? If it's on the frontline and heavily contested it has potential to cause a snowball effect for whoever gets it and allow them to steamroll the whole map. If it's in deep in each team's own territory it could present a strategic target for the opposing team, but would lengthen the time people could get back to the combat area because they'll want to get that ordnance if they get shot down...oh my god you just solved the fighter spam refueling time issue.

Edited June 28, 2017 by AbortedMan

[CrashO]

Well. I wasn't necessarily talking about having them spawn deep into own territory and fly half the map (empty or with small arms), to load up their toys at another base.

 

What I meant was. Move the flankers/F-15/Mig to airfields deep inside friendly territory (e.g. Anapa+Minvody and Kobuletti + Tblisi) , and allow them to load up everything they need there. But also allow them to rearm-refuel them on any of the forward bases. And have those bases populated with interceptors/strikers/helicopters.

 

Although having a "super-re-arm" base might be a good idea. It means they would have to fly a ton without refueling if the action is on the other side of the map. Because you will lose any weapons not in the airfields inventory, if you re-arm. (if i'm not mistaken, this is what was going on a while ago when red could grab ET's from the carriers, and they had to fly without refueling to Beslan to use them there. As long as they have to fly longer to compensate for having more punch. I don't mind them being able to re-arm on the frontlines. See it as a "thanks for not dying, so no more long flying" reward.

[OperatorJack]

I played for almost six hours today (slow day at work.) once we had 55 people online and only two mirages.

 

I actually think we swayed it too far. I just wanted equal fuel. Not sure needing ins and removal of missile launch warning was necessary...

 

TJ

 

 

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I'm in favour of removing the D2M.

 

It was never used on the M2KC so I don't know why we have it.

That's a completely different argument though.

[Tj1376]

Red has 2 troop ships, Mi-8 & UH-1

Blue has 1, UH-1

 

Gazelle troop ability was removed on all models for some reason unknown to me.

 

My suggested solution is to make the all Red UH-1 slots into Mi-8 slots or perhaps give some Gazelles troop ability (of course I'd suggest the Mistral, but I'm biased)

 

 

I don't even understand why the red has Huey... can we take it away?

 

TJ

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tj1376]

This is the price that must be paid for guaranteed fair play within the intended rules of the server. If all players see it has being hurt, then they're not realizing what the alternative is of being hurt more by people gaming the system and breaking rules.

 

 

It's not the price to be paid. Lives are the price to be paid.

 

Modify how lives and fuel work and you will stop airquake.

 

We don't need to punish all players.

 

TJ

 

 

 

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