Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9

[Oceandar]

I agree with above post. Kill message gives some advantage in combat. If I feel the need to know who or what killed me or who I have killed simply go to see statistic on BF page or download the tacview file

[kobeshow]

I was thinking about a solution to the platforms for each side, with realism in mind. I believe this is the best solution as this would make players more dedicated depending on the platforms they use.

 

When I say limited, I am applying that the platform should be limited in numbers and only available at big military/strategic positions.

 

Countries for future modules should be taken in consideration, so mission rebuilding won't be needed.

 

RED:

Ka-50; Su-27/33, MiG-29S; Mi-8;Su-25T/A(Russia)

AJS 37 Viggen (Sweden)

M2000C(Limited)(Peru if it possible to get it under their flag)

SA342 (Serbia or Syria)(Limited) or unique to Blue

JF-17(China/Pakistan)

Mi-24P(Russia)

F-4E; F-14A (Limited) (Iran)

 

 

Blue

AV-8B N/A; A-10C; F-15C; (US)

UH-1H(Georgia/US);Mi-8(Limited);Su-25T(Limited) (Georgia)

M-2000C(Limited); SA432 (Limited) (France)

F-4E; F/A-18C; F/A-14B; OH-58D (US)

Mi-24P (limited) (Georgia)

 

Focusing certain platforms on specific airfields so they become a bigger strategic point

 

That is just too deep for me, and is probably too deep for the server admins.

Sure it is fun to think about what the playing field could look like in the future, but I don't think it would be wise for mission makers and server owners to balance their mission around EDs future plans, as we have seen time and time again that massive delays will happen and things in MP code will be broken as well as mission editor functions.

I can only imagine what the guys trying to spend their free time doing something productive for their hobby (DCS) feel like, it is probably causing them more pain than joy, so it is best for them to just work with what they have and don't try to plan too far ahead, for their own sanity.

[Ciribob]

I can only imagine what the guys trying to spend their free time doing something productive for their hobby (DCS) feel like, it is probably causing them more pain than joy, so it is best for them to just work with what they have and don't try to plan too far ahead, for their own sanity.

 

^ truth hurts :D

 

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[Shadow KT]

Well it used to be somewhat like that in the past. Not seeing platforms such as Hueys and A-10Cs on the Red Side.

 

I don't see how it is tailored to ED's future plans, as both sides have pretty much the same amount of platforms which can do the different tasks. Both sides with their strengths. (if you count the sheer amount of aircraft, red even turns out to have more)

 

I look at it this way:

 

People normally fly their favorite platforms, if you make them side dedicated, would only encourage you to do better and prove that your favorite platforms is better by competing.

 

As I've said before I am willing to help and give off my free time for mission editing as I love to touch on all these small details

 

Besides what I am saying by "planning" is putting in the countries in their representative coalitions, so you don't have to edit the mission every time a new platform shows up.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Shadow KT

[dedde01]

I was thinking about a solution to the platforms for each side, with realism in mind. I believe this is the best solution as this would make players more dedicated depending on the platforms they use.

 

When I say limited, I am applying that the platform should be limited in numbers and only available at big military/strategic positions.

 

Countries for future modules should be taken in consideration, so mission rebuilding won't be needed.

 

RED:

Ka-50; Su-27/33, MiG-29S; Mi-8;Su-25T/A(Russia)

AJS 37 Viggen (Sweden)

M2000C(Limited)(Peru if it possible to get it under their flag)

SA342 (Serbia or Syria)(Limited) or unique to Blue

JF-17(China/Pakistan)

Mi-24P(Russia)

F-4E; F-14A (Limited) (Iran)

 

 

Blue

AV-8B N/A; A-10C; F-15C; (US)

UH-1H(Georgia/US);Mi-8(Limited);Su-25T(Limited) (Georgia)

M-2000C(Limited); SA432 (Limited) (France)

F-4E; F/A-18C; F/A-14B; OH-58D (US)

Mi-24P (limited) (Georgia)

 

Focusing certain platforms on specific airfields so they become a bigger strategic point

 

Btw for the red side the mirages can come from UAE or the chinese air force, instead of the Peruvian AF that looks so unrealistic:thumbup:

Maybe also from the IAF

 

Can't wait for the Italian navy's skin for the harrier

Edited January 7, 2018 by dedde01

[Shadow KT]

Btw for the red side the mirages can come from UAE or the chinese air force, instead of the Peruvian AF that looks so unrealistic:thumbup:

Maybe also from the IAF

 

Actually having them from India would be the most realistic scenario, next would be Peru. UAE are too big of an allies with the USA, same for the IDF.

 

Besides, if you add them to the RED coalition then they can have every western jet as well which kinda ruins the whole point.

 

Also I looked for nations that have a different skin for the Mirage. Yeah, UAE checks that point, but then you can have Hueys, F-15s, etc.

[viperdogsnake]

Wish we had to deliver fuel to airfields like Round 4&5, last time BF wowwed me.

[lemoen]

Server froze again tonight at 9:16 UTC

 

Edit: 9:23 UTC now and it is still frozen

[bolek]

Not sure if this is a bug or intentional but there is a single red Su-25T on the Malot FARP. How does this work? Takeoff from the road like Viggen? I wanted to check it out in case it was a new Blue Flag feature but DCS crashed both times I tried it.

[dedde01]

Not sure if this is a bug or intentional but there is a single red Su-25T on the Malot FARP. How does this work? Takeoff from the road like Viggen? I wanted to check it out in case it was a new Blue Flag feature but DCS crashed both times I tried it.

 

Maybe the crash is related to the 25T:huh:

[Ciribob]

Not sure if this is a bug or intentional but there is a single red Su-25T on the Malot FARP. How does this work? Takeoff from the road like Viggen? I wanted to check it out in case it was a new Blue Flag feature but DCS crashed both times I tried it.

Not intentional, I'll remove it. You won't be able to use it as no FC3 aircraft can start from the ground unfortunately.

 

Thanks for letting me know :)

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[dedde01]

Not intentional, I'll remove it. You won't be able to use it as no FC3 aircraft can start from the ground unfortunately.

 

Thanks for letting me know :)

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Ciribob do you think that the crashes were related to the aircraft?

 

Edit: is the the disabled auto INS alignment on the mirage a feature or a bug?

Edited January 7, 2018 by dedde01

[Ciribob]

Ciribob do you think that the crashes were related to the aircraft?

Unlikely - it just crashes your machine if you join though! :D

 

 

It wasn't even a crash, the server hung which is much more annoying as I don't get a crash log or error to debug.

 

It does occasionally happen and I think we just have to accept it as a fact of life until 2.5. it's still pretty stable generally :)

 

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[Tirak]

Actually having them from India would be the most realistic scenario, next would be Peru. UAE are too big of an allies with the USA, same for the IDF.

 

Besides, if you add them to the RED coalition then they can have every western jet as well which kinda ruins the whole point.

 

Also I looked for nations that have a different skin for the Mirage. Yeah, UAE checks that point, but then you can have Hueys, F-15s, etc.

 

Honestly in the long run I'm strongly against mirrored aircraft. In the short run it's unavoidable, but looking at the supposed anticipated 2018 list that some folks are taking as gospel, we can get rid of the mirror matchups by matching roles and providing some advantages to each side that should help balance out.

 

FC3

[TABLE]Red|Blue|Role|Location

SU-27/33|F-15C|Air Superiority|Home Bases Only/Carriers

SU-25A|A-10A|Close Air Support|Home Bases Only

MiG-29|N/A|Air Superiority|Home Bases Only[/TABLE]We sadly will never get away from the Flaming Cliffs 3 modules, they're too prevalent and too much of a gateway for new players who are just getting into DCS to ever completely count out. We should however, disincentivize using them. Yes they're easy, yes they're highly effective, but if you want to use them, you're going to have to use them from one of the rear line bases. This should make using them less desirable as long as you have a more advanced aircraft in your reserve. I have left one exception to this list, the 25T, as it must perform as a counterpart elsewhere.

Air Superiority

[TABLE]Red|Blue|Location

F-14A|F-14B|Home Bases Only

Mirage 2000C|F-4E|Midline Bases and Limited Frontline Bases

MiG-21Bis|F-5E|All Airbases

MiG-19|N/A|All Airbases[/TABLE]The cock of the walk will no doubt be the powerful and flexible F-14s, and given that both the A and B variants will be available, they should be split between Red and Blue as they provide a capability completely unrivaled by any other aircraft thanks to the Phoenix. It should be noted however, Blue F-14s are superior dogfighters, however Blue has fewer options in this category as a whole. Nevertheless, the aircraft should only be available at home bases, as the amount of firepower they provide is significant that spending time and effort to bring it to the front should be the price for its awesome capabilities.

 

I somewhat hesitated to match the Mirage 2000 and the F-4E Phantom in this category, however given the era of Phantom we are receiving, I believe it is justified. The Mirage is a superior dogfighter and has an easier to use radar. The Phantom brings more firepower to the table and a more powerful radar. Strictly speaking, the Phantom is more of a Multirole in the version we are getting, however for the purposes of ease of organization of the direct matchups, I placed it in the Air Superiority Category, though that is part of its balancing against the Mirage which makes the aircraft relatively comparable in the environment we are using them.

 

The MiG-21Bis and MiG-19 round out the category as front line fighters for Redfor. Because of their limited range and capability, they should be the front line spawn, easy to get into combat with and capable only at short range due to their armament. They are squared off against the F-5E which I believe is a reasonable setup. The MiG-19 is a strictly close in dogfighter with out of date missiles, however it is a great shield for the MiG-21's sharp spear, mixing up and delaying the F-5s. The F-5s are solid dogfighters in all realms that the MiGs can operate in, though are not as nimble as the 19, nor as long ranged as the 21, and able to take advantage of any gaps discovered. Combined with superior visibility and an easy to use Radar, I believe the matchup to be equal, thus the 19 needs no direct counterpart on the chart.

Ground Attack

 

[TABLE]Red|Blue|Location

SU-25T|A-10C|Midline Bases

AJS-37|AV-8B| FARPs and Midline Bases[/TABLE]The King of DCS sadly has no proper counterpart, and thus the Jack of DCS must fill its place, with the free SU-25T module filling in. I understand these are not proper analogues, however the SU-25T brings standoff SEAD to the table in addition to a potentially lethal close in punch with its Vikhrs, whereas the A-10C is much more suitible for long term punching down on less well defended targets. SU-25Ts thus have more "alpha strike" being able to knock open the door on SAM sights with greater ease, though the A-10C brings sustained firepower to the table.

 

The Viggen is a supersonic striker, the Harrier a flexible multi target strike bird. Again asymmetrical balance rears up in a positive way, with Viggens able to strike down hard on heavily defended targets and against naval targets (something very important against the highly navalized Blue faction), and the Harrier able to fill in gaps where required and be fast on call support while the A-10s labor to get into position.

 

Helicopter Scout/Gunship

 

[TABLE]Red|Blue|Location

KA-50|N/A|Home Base and Limited FARP

Mi-24P|N/A|Home Bases Only

N/A|Bo-105|All Bases and FARPS

N/A|SA342|All Bases and FARPS[/TABLE]The Pinnacle of assymetric warfare in Blue Flag will be the Scout/Gunship role, with Blue having no gunship helicopters and Red no Scout Helicopters, at least until the AH-1W comes out, but that could be very far down the line and wasn't mentioned in the New Years bulletin.

The KA-50 is an effective ground attack platform no lie, however because of its unrivaled power, you should be forced to bring it from afar. Of course operating from FARPs after ferrying from home is fine, however because of Blue's total lack of a proper counterpart, only limited numbers should actually be on the front.

The Mi-24P will be by far the most exciting addition to Blue Flag with its ability to carry not only troops, but anti tank missiles, anti aircraft missiles (potentially, it's a little unclear on that), and have a powerful gun. This power should come at a cost, only being available at home bases, as once a Hind is in field, it can effectively fight and move the war on its own if not properly challenged.

 

The light Scout Helicopters of Blue should be forward deployed, easy to slip over into the fight and should have their full range of weapons availible. Woe betide he who ignores warnings of Gazelles prowling in the mountains with AA missiles, and that should help promote teamwork between rotary aircraft and their fixed wing counterparts. Because of their limited weapons load, I feel no concern about them being on the front line as it moves forward, giving NATO a small advantage in that regard, though of course lacking the heavy firepower and flexibility of movement Red will enjoy with its gunships.

 

Transport Helicopters

 

[TABLE]Red|Blue|Location

Mi8|UH-1|Normal Bases[/TABLE]The current only transports in game shouldn't be crossed. Red is going to enjoy an advantage in this category thanks to the Hind being able to double for it as well, and so it might make sense for Huey's to be closer to the front, however aside from that, this section needs little explanation.

 

Super Stars

 

[TABLE]Red|Blue|Location

JF-17|F/A-18C|Home Bases Only[/TABLE]These two aircraft can do everything. They will be the most advanced, most capable most flexible planes in game. That's fine, if you want to bring it, you're going to have to plan for it and start from your home bases. These will be the multirole kings of Blue Flag and each should be seen as a point of pride for their faction, no crossover can possibly be considered.

 

Overall in Fixed Wing, Blue comes off with more flexible multirole aircraft. The Phantom will be just as much at home bombing ground targets as it is dogfighting in the skies. Similarly the Harrier will be rapid flexible response, whereas the Viggen is pinpoint strike. On the rotary side of the equation, Red holds the cards, having the more flexible and capable gunship, squaring off against the smaller, more nimble and easier placed Blue scout helicopters.

 

I feel the list provided fills all required roles and places aircraft on relatively equal footing, with small advantages and disadvantages to keep things interesting, while simultaneously getting rid of any multi faction planes. This helps create a faction culture, push camaraderie and help out pilots lacking more modern radars make fast identifications in a dogfight. I'm certain people will have disagreements, but this is the path I'd like to see Blue Flag move towards in the future, using the current blueprint as shared by ED on their New Years bulletin.

[dedde01]

Looks cool.

I wanna do a premise: I am not a big fan of the f4 and the f14, and I am also not well informed about their capabilities. :noexpression::doh:

 

With that being said, I think it's impossible to compare a Mirage to an f4, cause, from my point of view, they're two different kind of aircrafts, of two different generations, with different capabilities.

 

I also can't find a good 3rd gen dogfighter aircraft with a good turn ratio in the blue roster, since the mirage is on the red side.

[Tirak]

The F-4E we're recieving is the most modern one that served in the USAF, so it's not a vietnam vintage aircraft. She'll have access to Sparrow missiles in greater quantities than the Mirage, in addition to her AIM-9 loadout. A powerful radar and a dedicated officer means that the F-4 outperforms the Mirage handily until the merge, and even then, because it's a 'modern' F-4 with a slatted wing, she will be able to handle herself, especially with her monstrous amount of thrust able to sprint to make distance. It's not as bad a matchup as you might imagine.

 

The real reason I was hesitant to match the two is because the F-4 is going to be a very effective ground attack aircraft, allowing her to employ laser guided bombs with Pave Track and a large selection of guided missiles and potentially ARMs as well.

[QuiGon]

I really like your proposal Tirak, but I would to add at least the F-14 to carriers as well, maybe even the F/A-18. That would also make it more rewarding for Viggen pilots (like me) to sink them :D

Edited January 8, 2018 by QuiGon

[dedde01]

I really like your proposal Tirak, but I would to add at least the F-14 to carriers as well, maybe even the F/A-18. That would also make it more rewarding for Viggen pilots (like me) to sink them :D

 

 

+1 and don't forget about the harrier:)

[lemoen]

+1 for Tirak's idea.

[QuiGon]

Speaking about Carriers. I hope they will get reintroduced to Blue Flag soon and act as mobile, not capturable, but destroyable bases for naval aircraft. I would like it, if they would move along the coast to the enemy side untill they are off the coast of the other sides deepest coastal base (Batumi/Anapa) and stay there till they get destroyed.

 

+1 and don't forget about the harrier:)

Damn, I totally did :music_whistling:

Edited January 8, 2018 by QuiGon

[Shadow KT]

Yeah was in my previous module/side suggestions/wishes

[Tholozor]

It would be cool if the carriers had a dynamic waypoint system, where they advance/retreat their position based on the objectives their side controls on the coastline.

[QuiGon]

It would be cool if the carriers had a dynamic waypoint system, where they advance/retreat their position based on the objectives their side controls on the coastline.

 

That would be even better of course :thumbup:

 

It is not possible to command ships as CA-Commander, or is it?

[Lucas_From_Hell]

Wouldn't it be better to put the Phantom RED and Mirage BLUE? That way both sides get a supersonic SEAD platform.

[QuiGon]

Wouldn't it be better to put the Phantom RED and Mirage BLUE? That way both sides get a supersonic SEAD platform.

 

None of them is a SEAD platform? At least the Mirage definitely isn't. Can the F-4E carry the Shrike/SARM?