AIM120"C" and AIM9"M" TEST TEAM READ!

[-razor-]

Hello!

 

 

aim120C that it is named in the game is a aim 120a/b, aim120A came in production in september 1991, and have a hit ratio of 90% in lomac it is like 1%?? Aim 120c's wings or what there name is, is kutt off to fit in the F22 and joint strike fighter, aim 120a, can alsow be launched using infared search and tracking (irst). where is that?? even the F15A have it.

 

back to the kill ratio, try in lomac and fire a amraam "C" from 40,000 feet agains an enemy at the "no escape zone" range head on, at that point the amraam killratio is 90%, those 10% is the enemy gye that effekts,

 

one way to defeat a amraam is like all dose in lomac, beam at high speed, try make a 7-9g turn at M1,2 or somethething. in real life u cant to that cous it will break the plane. something have to be done with this game, its crazy, And dont say this is a realistic game becouse it is NOT! did lomac get there information to this game from ikea or what?

 

AIM0"M" then, it have a low smoke rocketengine= lomac? smokes like a whole nabur is on fire. is wery emune agains flares, in lomac u pop 2-3 and its gone. it feels like lomac want to put aircraft in colscombat so the russians can show there planes with there great manuverbility. why is su27 bether than f15?? couse it can do cobra?? a cobra dosnt help anything in a fight. just slows the aircraft making it easyer to hit:megalol:

 

why add a damn helicopter when there are miles of stuff to make bether in this game to even make it playble??

 

offcorse u have tp play with the rules with the amraam, but even when itys done, always miss, just enter a beam and pop som chaffs, eventhat isnt nessesery, make the aircraft break at high speed turn cous thay DO in real life.

 

sry for my bad english.

[Pilotasso]

As soon as I make up half of this post Ill have my saying. :D

[pschelchshorn]

bump. I see it the same way.

 

Flip

[Pilotasso]

 

one way to defeat a amraam is like all dose in lomac, beam at high speed, try make a 7-9g turn at M1,2 or somethething. in real life u cant to that cous it will break the plane.

 

No you wont. The question is if you want to spend that much fuel in a real mission, since the mission distances in LOMAc are much shorter.

G tolerance in LOMAC is pretty pessimistic because after initial warmups you will pass out at 4 G's. I had the oportunity to make aerobatic flying and I have endured 4 G's with more ease and for longer.

 

Real planes limiting factors in tunrs are often the pilots not the aircraft.

 

As for AMRAAM's yes, they have lower PK, but most peaople have learned how to use them effectively through apporpriate tactics. Last night I made 2 double kills at 30 miles (40000 feet high), and the oponents were experienced people.

 

In black shark you will have 2 versions of the AMRAAM, AIM B and AIM C with the later having enhanced PK but slighly reduced range (as is IRL).

 

My biggest complaints however go to IR missiles. AIM-9 is Useless with a capital U. And there is not a delayed seeker head lock, in LOMAc its instantaneous.

[GGTharos]

Hello!

 

 

aim120C that it is named in the game is a aim 120a/b, aim120A came in production in september 1991,

 

We know.

 

and have a hit ratio of 90%

 

Try 60% in real wars.

 

in lomac it is like 1%??

 

Actually about 30%

 

 

Aim 120c's wings or what there name is, is kutt off to fit in the F22 and joint strike fighter,

 

We know that, too.

 

aim 120a, can alsow be launched using infared search and tracking (irst). where is that?? even the F15A have it.

 

Untrue. Check your sources ;)

 

back to the kill ratio, try in lomac and fire a amraam "C" from 40,000 feet agains an enemy at the "no escape zone" range head on, at that point the amraam killratio is 90%, those 10% is the enemy gye that effekts,

 

Eh? ...

 

one way to defeat a amraam is like all dose in lomac, beam at high speed, try make a 7-9g turn at M1,2 or somethething. in real life u cant to that cous it will break the plane.

 

We know this, too - this will require AFM on the aircraft to correct.

 

something have to be done with this game, its crazy, And dont say this is a realistic game becouse it is NOT! did lomac get there information to this game from ikea or what?

 

Yeah, ok, thanks. Missiles are slated for an AFM update after black shark sometime, not before. So are their sensors.

You cannot -program- a missile to actually act like a real missile unless all you do is simulate the missile and only the missile. Therefore there iwll always be some discrepancies.

 

AIM0"M" then, it have a low smoke rocketengine= lomac? smokes like a whole nabur is on fire. is wery emune agains flares, in lomac u pop 2-3 and its gone. it feels like lomac want to put aircraft in colscombat so the russians can show there planes with there great manuverbility. why is su27 bether than f15?? couse it can do cobra?? a cobra dosnt help anything in a fight. just slows the aircraft making it easyer to hit:megalol:

 

Right, and the same works against R-73's. What's your problem? Su-27's out-turn F-15s at slow speeds anyway.

 

 

why add a damn helicopter when there are miles of stuff to make bether in this game to even make it playble??

 

Because that is the direction chosed by ED and their publisher, period, end of story. The Ka-50 is popular in Russia, and that is where the bulk of LOMAC's sales supposedly are.

 

offcorse u have tp play with the rules with the amraam, but even when itys done, always miss, just enter a beam and pop som chaffs, eventhat isnt nessesery, make the aircraft break at high speed turn cous thay DO in real life.

 

sry for my bad english.

 

 

Thanks for the rant ;)

 

We're all aware of the inaccuracies present in missile systems. THey will be fixed some time down the road.

[Kenan]

Amraam is not 100% realistic..but IMO is doing fairly good in LOMAC if flying against skilled F15C pilots.

There is a big difference in online HL fights and squad matches where both Amraams and R/ER series are a lot more deadlier, due to more organized flying and not just pure spamming.

[Pilotasso]

Amraam is not 100% realistic..but IMO is doing fairly good in LOMAC if flying against skilled F15C pilots.

 

It takes alot of skill to use it effectively. Its not 100% realistic but then again it will never be in any SIM. PK wise its about 50% real but this mark will be much lower than that if we consider that LOMAC's implementation of missiles trajectory and search logic is left totaly at basic level IMHO, more programing time would produce a much better estimate what real missile logic is likely to be.

 

worse than AMRAm's low PK is standoff ECM capability in LOMAC. you will only be able to make multiple engagement like the real F-15 does if the enemy lets you to. I think this totaly sux and influences tactics heavily. Hope its fixed in BS, because I never rwlay understood why they changed this in 1.1 in the first place.

[-razor-]

this facts is real, face it.

 

okay this is a sim, and u dont have any stops cous u dont sit in the aircraft, but to simulate this there would be fysics effekt such as the aircraft breaks, nothing happens when u pull 7-9g at mach +1,xx just blackout, in real life there are no aircraft left, just burning metall going down wery fast.

 

then why is the amraam texture in lomac from an A/B? but the namne is C?? donsn't make sence,

 

if i were the boss at lomac, i wold fix souch things and scrap the blackshark.

 

as thay say, amraam isn't programmed to miss, and most of the time it donsn't

 

and what time is lock on, is it at the early 1970 or, late 1900? cous the ET what first deploed 1994, and r73 1994 as well.

[Pilotasso]

this facts is real, face it.

 

okay this is a sim, and u dont have any stops cous u dont sit in the aircraft, but to simulate this there would be fysics effekt such as the aircraft breaks, nothing happens when u pull 7-9g at mach +1,xx just blackout, in real life there are no aircraft left, just burning metall going down wery fast.

 

then why is the amraam texture in lomac from an A/B? but the namne is C?? donsn't make sence,

 

if i were the boss at lomac, i wold fix souch things and scrap the blackshark.

 

as thay say, amraam isn't programmed to miss, and most of the time it donsn't

 

and what time is lock on, is it at the early 1970 or, late 1900? cous the ET what first deploed 1994, and r73 1994 as well.

 

Most top of the line jets can go 7-8 G's at mach 1 and 4-5 G's at greater speeds. I have never been able to fly the F-15 at 8 G's anywhere near mach 2 specialy because at the height required to do it you will bleed speed like an airbrake and the air is too thin even to maintain level flight at dry thrust. you must be using the easy flight model or sumething?

[aimmaverick]

Speaking of easy flight model... They claim that amongst other things it makes your engines produce 2x the thrust. I tried it and there seems to be no diference whatsoever. Same T/W and I tried to reach mach 2.5 in Eagle. And you now what? I could only achieve exactly the same top speed as before so it doesnt work.

 

And yes Razor, air-air combat is virtualy broken in Flaming Cliffs unfortunetely. So are Rh missiles, especially aim-120 and r-77. PK is absolutely porked.

You must use opposite tactics than irl to have any sort of sucess. (look up-shoot up situations)

But not just air-air missiles also radar sams performance is terrible. They eat chaff like crazy.

[-razor-]

^^ no never easy flight=) if u do it slowly u can do it.

but in fackt yes modern jets like rafeal, typhoon and gripen all of them can do 9g for over 120sek at subsonic speed, typhoon is the only one that can make 9g supersonic (not sure if typhoon is the onlyone) but we do in gripen 9g only at subsonic, do +7g at supersonic in a fighter from 1970 is killing your self.

 

 

Thats why modern bvr fight is done with speed between 330-450 (450-500knots Sometimes) knots, in lomac the messiles seems to effect by G's not the turn rate, REAL messiles effekt by turnrate not g's, If u want a realistic sim, go fly the falcon 4 allied force, atleast the plane brake at high speed and high manuvers.

 

Lomac is too much graphiks and not enugh "flight"

 

alsow this, i knew from the start that there were someproblems with the stering, but i coul't figur out what and a month ago i found out what it was. When u roll the aircraft to the right, the nose will go to the left, and u have to rudder the plane with the right pedal in a REAL aircraft, u have a "ball" (ball is in lomac aswell) but in lomac that "ball" goes to the left in a right roll with is WERY WRONG! Why start with a chopper when there is miles of stuff to fix..

 

great graphiks, no bad with that, just that the flame after a burning aircraft is much longer and bigger.

 

Sorry for my english again, and belive me i know this bussnies.

[Kenan]

-razor- have u ever flown in a squad and in the squad matches?

[-razor-]

Yes.

[Ice]

As for AMRAAM's yes' date=' they have lower PK, but most peaople have learned how to use them effectively through apporpriate tactics. Last night I made 2 double kills at 30 miles (40000 feet high), and the oponents were experienced people.[/quote']

 

Sometimes you can get lucky with long shots from high alt. Normally tho if the target breaks lock for just a second the AIM120's or AIM 7's go dumb. In RL however it should be more like the ER and missile should reaquire by communication with the launching ac.

 

those high alt tactics also get you killed alot :smilewink:

[Pilotasso]

^^^^tell me about it. Had three people you know very well flying in formation against me and I couldnt fly any lower than that, or risk being skinned alive by multiple SAM's. :D

[GGTharos]

Sorry for my english again, and belive me i know this bussnies.

 

No, you do not. This is why you aren't working for any flight sim companies.

 

Business = Fulfilling your contracts. 'Fixing all this stuff' is not what ED was hired to do. THey were hired to produce a high fidelity helicopter sim, so that is exactly what they will do.

 

In other words, if YOU were 'head of ED' you would have been fired for gross incompetence leading to lack of funds and breakup of company.

 

Read what I wrote above -again-. Everything is scheduled for upgrade at some point in time - but NOT right now.

 

The focus of Black Shark is the Ka-50. Period. Nothing will change this.

[Pilotasso]

^^^^well before it was "a high fidelity helicopter SIM" it used to be a "a high fidelity jet SIM" if it is not, then Razor STILL has a point. For ED swiched over to other craft without fixing elementary problems with previous content of the SIM. While they must have reasons for that, it is not totaly out of the line to point this out.

 

If anyone thinks to silence any criticism of what is ovious from the point of view of the custumer you are breaking the basic rule that is "the customer is always right" policy and throwing sand to custumers eyes with the moto:"that is no longer important you should want this instead now".

[Ice]

I got up early to fly Pilot you gonna join in ?

[GGTharos]

^^^^well before it was "a high fidelity helicopter SIM" it used to be a "a high fidelity jet SIM" if it is not, then Razor STILL has a point. For ED swiched over to other craft without fixing elementary problems with previous content of the SIM. While they must have reasons for that, it is not totaly out of the line to point this out.

 

If anyone thinks to silence any criticism of what is ovious on th point of view of the custumerm you would be breaking the basic rule that is "the customer is always right" policy, and it wouldnt give a pretty image of the company.

 

It's fine that he points it out - but now he's just a) ranting and he's b) ranting about old stuff we already know about.

 

There is a search function for a reason here.

[Kenan]

Yes.

 

Which one?

[Pilotasso]

I got up early to fly Pilot you gonna join in ?

 

I didnt got up early, rather went to bed way too late LOL. Its hard to get some decent session online with enough people at HL recently. Sometimes I wait this long for my fav hobby. Fortunatly I have no fixed schedule so far, but as I said a few times it will change soon and I may be unable to attend much anymore. going to deliver my thesis next week and then it will be 1 or 2 more months of job searching. It takes that long over here.

[-razor-]

yes, i understand that programing a flightsim is not an easy task.

 

but the bvr combats . . . there are no words about it,

 

here in sweden we had a diskussion about this game, and we even spoke about give the flight team (those wo program the flight moddel) a couple of flight in a ja37 viggen just so thay could compair how a real yet behaves, (su25T is good but the ruddersystem in somehow inverted.)

 

i bvr flight NEVER EVER goes over 400knots! sometimes under a bugg out 450knots, i dont think anyone of u under stand the forces of +7g at supersonic, couse the turn rate is crap at those speeds, the same turn rate at 330knot at 450 knots u have to do like 20-30G! (turnrate=degrees per sekond.) yes russian airplane have the best turnrate after typhoon. and typhoon is a class for it self.

 

lomac team, some how u have to limit the speed of aircraft in bvr combat.

 

i understand that programing a sim is hard, and this game at this point cant be more messed up that it is right now,it can only get bether! good work :)

[FanBoy2006.01]

A lot has been and are being made about the real life combat performance of missiles and the performance of the same simulated missiles in LOMAC.

 

But it seams that there is little talk about the actual events in witch

combat results take place.

 

 

Now I am no expert at any thing, but in all air-to-air engagements

that I have read about, I have never read about the employment

of any countermeasures!

 

 

In all instances that I read about only limited maneuvering (If any!)

was employed by the pilots to evade the missiles.

 

 

I recall that there was an account posted on this forum about a Serbian MiG29

pilot that was shot down by an Aim120 (Everybody probably knows about this.).

When the guy got a launch warning (I guess when the Aim120 went active.), he

first waited to launch one of his own missiles and only then turned as hard as he could.

Also the F15 apparently launched the missile withing 15miles of the MiG29.

I am writing this from memory so the details could be wrong!

 

 

The Serbian pilot showed a lot of bravery in his actions, but it is my opinion that he

should have acted more prudently. In LOMAC a lot of experienced sim pilots are

of the opinion that one should first try to evade an incoming missile before he try

to launch one of his/her own.

 

 

Now I am sure that because of the limitations of personal computers and because

of the control of sensitive military information that there will be discrepancies between

real life weapon systems and how they are modeled in LOMAC.

 

 

To me the real value in LOMAC lies in the fact that one can use real life air-to-air tactics to achieve an outcome in this simulated world.

[Shaman]

OMG :megalol: here we go again

 

Shaman was here!

[GGTharos]

yes, i understand that programing a flightsim is not an easy task.

 

but the bvr combats . . . there are no words about it,

 

Yeah, there are a lot of issues, starting with missiles - forget the aircraft right now - missiles are simply not perfoming as they ought to in many cases.

 

here in sweden we had a diskussion about this game, and we even spoke about give the flight team (those wo program the flight moddel) a couple of flight in a ja37 viggen just so thay could compair how a real yet behaves, (su25T is good but the ruddersystem in somehow inverted.)

 

Now that would be nice :) (It may be that the Su-25 has such strange handling qualities, btw - this is probably not uncommon ... but a word from Oleg perhaps would be useful here)

 

i bvr flight NEVER EVER goes over 400knots! sometimes under a bugg out 450knots, i dont think anyone of u under stand the forces of +7g at supersonic, couse the turn rate is crap at those speeds, the same turn rate at 330knot at 450 knots u have to do like 20-30G! (turnrate=degrees per sekond.) yes russian airplane have the best turnrate after typhoon. and typhoon is a class for it self.

 

Not true. F-22 is built do do what? BVR at mach 1.7 ;) It does this routinely because its engines allow it - but it is common knowledge that you want to accelerate to launch the missile, then slow down and pole.

 

lomac team, some how u have to limit the speed of aircraft in bvr combat.

 

i understand that programing a sim is hard, and this game at this point cant be more messed up that it is right now,it can only get bether! good work :)

 

 

We will need AFM for all aircrafts for this to happen, so ... it will not happen soon, but it -will- happen.