Spitfire first take-off; first "landing" observations

[dburne]

The trick that made it for my landings : Pressure of 4 on wheel brakes before the touchdown and all along the landing run. Fly parallel to runway low speed until the 60mph speed comes in and makes you touchdown on your own. Drop throttle back altogether, pull stick, if you have enough free hands left, flaps in :)

 

Thanks for the tip I will have to give that a try.

[dburne]

The trick that made it for my landings : Pressure of 4 on wheel brakes before the touchdown and all along the landing run. Fly parallel to runway low speed until the 60mph speed comes in and makes you touchdown on your own. Drop throttle back altogether, pull stick, if you have enough free hands left, flaps in :)

 

:thumbup:

 

Definitely helped, I ended up just applying a little brake pressure on my toe brakes right as I touched down and the plane slowed down nicely and smoothly on the runway - no wing tip drops, finally!

 

Thanks so much, finally making some nice smooth take offs and landings!

Now time to learn how to fight in this thing lol.

[Whisper]

Glad it helped!

I spent my last week or 2 into various Bf109 & FW190.... I lost all my Spitfire mojo, keeps touching wings on takeoffs and crashng on landing :'( Everything to re-learn again...

[SkyCaptain109]

After a weekend of practise I can now take off and land the Spitfire safely without wing dipping and crashing.:)

 

The trick on landing was for me to keep a little bit of throttle until the last moment before touchdown. The touchdown must be as gentle as possible and in a straight line. Immediately after touchdown keep her straight with rudder and brakes. I use the fighter approach as described in the manual.

 

On take off I start with full right aileron to counter the tendency of the aircraft to roll left due to the torque effect and with stick neutral. As the speed increases I decrease right aileron to keep wings level and play with rudder to keep her straight. She will lift off by herself in a tail low attitude. No need to push the stick forward, the tail will lift automatically with stick in neutral position.

[Tekkx]

Today I did some Take Off practice (broke off frustrated just a few minutes ago). :cry:

Meanwhile I start Hot on RWY for not wasting too much time on Taxi.

 

It's everytime the same: Plane begins rolling at about 1500 RPM. With a lot of work on rudder I manage to keep her strait on the center line.

As I speed up to 3000 RPM and release some of f the pulled back rudder she starts swinging (banking). Then one wing dips the ground. Half a second later nose (means: prop) touches the ground.

 

I lost not a single pilot those last (about 20) attempts. But I hope ED will not charge me for wrecking some Oldtimers.

[klem]

Today I did some Take Off practice (broke off frustrated just a few minutes ago). :cry:

Meanwhile I start Hot on RWY for not wasting too much time on Taxi.

 

It's everytime the same: Plane begins rolling at about 1500 RPM. With a lot of work on rudder I manage to keep her strait on the center line.

As I speed up to 3000 RPM and release some of f the pulled back rudder she starts swinging (banking). Then one wing dips the ground. Half a second later nose (means: prop) touches the ground.

 

I lost not a single pilot those last (about 20) attempts. But I hope ED will not charge me for wrecking some Oldtimers.

 

Hold about half right stick (aileron) as speed picks up. Be ready to adjust as necessary to keep wings level while dancing on the rudder until gentle climbout is achieved. For off line practice rub your tummy while patting on your head :)

[Tekkx]

For off line practice rub your tummy while patting on your head :)

That sounds funny ... but it seems to solve the main difficulty: Coordinating moves that have (virtually) no corelation.

 

When is the right moment to give her full RPM (3000)?

Should she lift her ass before? I feel she runs stable until I spool up the engine.

[too-cool]

This aircraft should not be that difficult to take off, what is causing the wing to dip even after you have the a/c running straight down the runway with only elevator input? I've been practicing taxing for the past week but can't stop the right wing from dipping once I pick up speed. TC

[dburne]

This aircraft should not be that difficult to take off, what is causing the wing to dip even after you have the a/c running straight down the runway with only elevator input? I've been practicing taxing for the past week but can't stop the right wing from dipping once I pick up speed. TC

 

That narrow wheel base can be brutal.

Gentle, gentle...

[Holbeach]

This aircraft should not be that difficult to take off, what is causing the wing to dip even after you have the a/c running straight down the runway with only elevator input? I've been practicing taxing for the past week but can't stop the right wing from dipping once I pick up speed. TC

 

Set 3000 rpm before moving, do not advance rpm when moving.

Pitch trim 0 deg

Rudder trim full right

Advance throttle 4 lb

Let go brake

Advance throttle 8/9 lb

Stick neutral.

Do not use aileron unless there is a crosswind

Do not use brakes

Counter initial left swing with very slight right rudder ( do not use aileron )

A swing will start to develop to the right

Before this happens start a slight left rudder to counter the swing ( do not use aileron ) by this time direction is easily controlled by rudder (do not use aileron or brakes)

Slight aft stick will achieve a clean lift off.

Raise gear will give nose up

Re trim pitch and rudder

Climb out at 180 mph and 12lb 2850 rpm.

 

..

 

 

..

[Tekkx]

...

Do not use aileron unless there is a crosswind

Do not use brakes

...

do not use aileron

...

do not use aileron

..

I'll gonna make a tattoo or at least a towel for the kitchen of that :)

 

Will try that tomorrow !!!

[Holbeach]

I'll gonna make a tattoo or at least a towel for the kitchen of that :)

 

Will try that tomorrow !!!

 

That's as near to real life as I can get. :book:

 

Good luck.

 

..

[DD_Fenrir]

Torque - the airframes reaction to the clockwise rotation of the propellor, drive shaft

P-factor - the nose up angle of the airframe during the takeoff roll means the propellor is not perpendicular to the airflow which generates unbalanced forces

Gyroscopic precision - the change in position of the rotating propellor as the tail is lifted causes further secondary forces to act

 

All cause the nose to move left during the takeoff roll and act independently or in concert depending on which stage of the takeoff roll you are currently in.

 

You're right wing dips because of the narrow track of the undercarriage, the speed of the aircraft and the severity of the left turn that is developing.

 

At first torque and P-factor will be the dominant - use a little right aileron and dance on the rudder pedals - if you sense the nose moving correct it quickly, with short and sharp inputs, the overall bias being towards the right.

[Art-J]

Holbeach's instruction above says how to do it with as little trouble as possible... Although personally I find feeding some right aileron pretty much all the time very useful - keeps the wings dead level - one less thing to worry about. More than one way to skin a cat I guess!

 

In the end, it's all about the rudder. If one manages to keep the plane from sudden yawing, there's no way the wing will dip either on takeoff or landing. That's always the most difficult thing, however.

[dburne]

Holbeach's instruction above says how to do it with as little trouble as possible... Although personally I find feeding some right aileron pretty much all the time very useful - keeps the wings dead level - one less thing to worry about. More than one way to skin a cat I guess!

 

In the end, it's all about the rudder. If one manages to keep the plane from sudden yawing, there's no way the wing will dip either on takeoff or landing. That's always the most difficult thing, however.

 

Agreed, took me almost 20 hours in the Spit to get to that point LOL.

[Pajama Pilot]

Hi

 

For takeoff, elevator trim two notches down, full right rudder trim, advance full throttle, tailwheel come up, takeoff happen almost by itself (front wind at 20 knots).

For landing, elevator trim 1 notch up, rudder trim adjusted to keep the aircraft wings leveled and nose straight, 100/90 mph, after touchdown full cutoff,apply brakes and rudder gently whith stick full aft. That's how I managed after many tries :pilotfly:

 

Cheers

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Hehe, taking off in the 109 is now piece of cake...

 

Reminds me of when I finally though the same about taking off in the P51d, after starting to try it in the recently released 109 :-)

 

This turn around I am sure there were no FDM updates in between, so, practice, practice practice!

[Holbeach]

I'll gonna make a tattoo or at least a towel for the kitchen of that :)

 

Will try that tomorrow !!!

 

Take note: If you're using the T/O quick mission, it comes with a 37 deg. crosswind from the right.

 

Best to remove it in the editor and give yourself a better chance. You can always put it back later after you get the basics sorted.

 

GL..

[dburne]

Take note: If you're using the T/O quick mission, it comes with a 37 deg. crosswind from the right.

 

Best to remove it in the editor and give yourself a better chance. You can always put it back later after you get the basics sorted.

 

GL..

 

LOL, no wonder I am always crabbing a little on my landings in that mission. That is mostly what I have been flying in the Spit as I get used to it's handling.

[Tekkx]

Take note: If you're using the T/O quick mission, it comes with a 37 deg. crosswind from the right.

Don't care. I made an extra mission just for Ground-, TakeOff- and GoArround-purposes. With NO traffic and no wind, no spectators. Just easy sunshine at 20° Celsius :)

So there is no excuse left.

 

Also I did this (look at the pic) :) and I replaced the spring in my stick with a more harder one.

Edited January 23, 2017 by Tekkx

[klem]

Hehe, taking off in the 109 is now piece of cake...

 

Reminds me of when I finally though the same about taking off in the P51d, after starting to try it in the recently released 109 :-)

 

This turn around I am sure there were no FDM updates in between, so, practice, practice practice!

 

And therein lies a clue.

 

Adolph Galland said of taking off and landing the Spitfire that it was ridiculously easy compared to his beloved 109.

[Tekkx]

Hallo. I'm back and alive!

Did my first circle without (close to) any issues :)

Can't tell you, how happy I am and how much fun these little two circles has been :)

So please: Excuse for spamming this thread ;)

 

I know there is still a lot of work to do. But now I have the key to further more in my hands.

 

- Trim rudder full right

- "full" throttle

- release brakes (before she nicks - best)

- keep her straight just with rudder (hard short impulses)

and

- use a stiff spring for your stick - if you use an extension.

 

My stick was configured for the A-10. That flying computer is behaving like "on rails" in contrast to the Spitfire.

 

Thank you all for the helpful input. Maybe I can return this someday :)

Edited January 23, 2017 by Tekkx

[dburne]

Still working on my landings, getting pretty good however this one my wingman decided to land just ahead of me and I decided to not abort and land as well. Guess he did not appreciate that LOL, a true Spit- Fire...

 

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Nice one :-)

[DD_Fenrir]

For those 2.0 guys joining us with the Spit for the first time, here's my how to for getting off the deck and back on without bending anything!

 

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by DD_Fenrir