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Viggen in Depth - 02 - ARAK Pop-Up Attack


Cobra847

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Bought it yesterday in the pre-sale. I'm looking forward to this aircraft. Another sierra hotel DLC by Leatherneck.

 

Thanks for the video, Cobra. :thumbup::pilotfly:

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Viggen in Depth is a bit misleading if the video is so shallow.

 

A shallow video would've been just external views of the flight, with some cool music.

 

This, however, was not shallow. It had detailed information on how to select the weapon and set up the attack, with voice instructions...

it was perhaps short, but definitely in depth.

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Thanks for the video, very interesting! :thumbup:

 

Regarding setting the QFE for the target area, how will it work for higher altitudes? Most aircraft in DCS can't set QFE above 1000m, some even less, 500-600m, assuming standard DCS World day :D.

 

Happy New Year!

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Can't quite figure out how they were aimed, was there a CCIP reticle?

The dot in the center of the HUD is the actual aim point, not the aircraft's velocity vector. The reason you have to set QFE before the attack (that is, set the altimeter so it reads zero at the target's altitude) is that the slant range to the target is calculated with simple triangulation - the computer does simple trigonometry using only the pressure altitude and the sine of the dive angle and then corrects for ballistics and wind etc to give you a good impression of where the rockets are actually going to hit.

 

Cobra did the attack with the flight phase selector in the NAV(igation) mode, which means the triangulation is all you get as far as target ranging goes. If you switch it to ANF(all), which means "attack", you can also get radar ranging! If the triangulated slant range to the target is less than 7000 meters, the roll angle is <45° and the dive angle is >5°, the radar will automatically attempt to lock on what you're aiming at. As I understand it the aim point needs to be reasonably stable for 0.5 seconds for this to happen. Once locked on (the HUD will tell you by lighting up the "tailfin" on the velocity vector), if the target is moving and you follow it with the aim point, the computer will automatically track its motion, compute how much you need to lead it, and once you unsafe, the aim point will be compensated with that information so you can just point at the target and shoot. Nothing is shown on the radar screen or anything, you can't go head down in that kind of situation - the lock and the ranging are completely automated.

 

The horizontal line with three vertical notches at the bottom of the HUD is a timing cue. It starts out long and shrinks towards the middle, and when it reaches the outer notches it's time to do your thing. You see it in action both when it's counting down to the pull-up point and when it's counting down to the appropriate moment to fire the rockets (you also get an extra cue in that case in the form of "wings" on the aiming point).


Edited by renhanxue
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The dot in the center of the HUD is the actual aim point, not the aircraft's velocity vector. The reason you have to set QFE before the attack (that is, set the altimeter so it reads zero at the target's altitude) is that the distance to the target is calculated with simple triangulation - the computer does simply trigonometry using only the pressure altitude and the sine of the dive angle and then corrects for ballistics and wind etc to give you a good impression of where the rockets are actually going to hit.

 

Cobra did the attack with the flight phase selector in the NAV(igation) mode, which means the triangulation is all you get as far as target ranging goes. If you switch it to ANF(all), which means "attack", you can also get radar ranging! If the triangulated slant range to the target is less than 7000 meters, the roll angle is <45° and the dive angle is >5°, the radar will automatically attempt to lock on what you're aiming at. As I understand it the aim point needs to be reasonably stable for 0.5 seconds for this to happen. Once locked on (the HUD will tell you by lighting up the "tailfin" on the velocity vector), if the target is moving and you follow it with the aim point, the computer will automatically track its motion, compute how much you need to lead it, and once you unsafe the aim point will be compensated with that information, so you can just point at the target and shoot. Nothing is shown on the radar screen or anything, you can't go head down in that kind of situation - the lock and the ranging are completely automated.

 

The horizontal line with three vertical notches at the bottom of the HUD is a timing cue. It starts out long and shrinks towards the middle, and when it reaches the outer notches it's time to do your thing. You see it in action both when it's counting down to the pull-up point and when it's counting down to the appropriate moment to fire the rockets (you also get an extra cue in that case in the form of "wings" on the aiming point).

 

 

Thanks for the great response! Certainly seems like a good system, especially for the time! I imagine the gun pods are aimed in a similar fashion?

"We carried out many trials to try to find the answer to the fast, low-level intruder, but there is no adequate defense."

 

— Air Vice-Marshal J. E. 'Johnnie' Johnson, RAF

 

Can't charge us all

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Every day and every minute counts in adding more polish to the Viggen. We'll have some downtime in February probably. :D

 

Don't listen to him make more videos :D

 

Make a commercial showing why the Viggen is superior to the Mig21 in the ground attack role like all car salesmen do when the new model comes :D

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The dot in the center of the HUD is the actual aim point, not the aircraft's velocity vector. The reason you have to set QFE before the attack (that is, set the altimeter so it reads zero at the target's altitude) is that the slant range to the target is calculated with simple triangulation - the computer does simple trigonometry using only the pressure altitude and the sine of the dive angle and then corrects for ballistics and wind etc to give you a good impression of where the rockets are actually going to hit.

 

Cobra did the attack with the flight phase selector in the NAV(igation) mode, which means the triangulation is all you get as far as target ranging goes. If you switch it to ANF(all), which means "attack", you can also get radar ranging! If the triangulated slant range to the target is less than 7000 meters, the roll angle is <45° and the dive angle is >5°, the radar will automatically attempt to lock on what you're aiming at. As I understand it the aim point needs to be reasonably stable for 0.5 seconds for this to happen. Once locked on (the HUD will tell you by lighting up the "tailfin" on the velocity vector), if the target is moving and you follow it with the aim point, the computer will automatically track its motion, compute how much you need to lead it, and once you unsafe, the aim point will be compensated with that information so you can just point at the target and shoot. Nothing is shown on the radar screen or anything, you can't go head down in that kind of situation - the lock and the ranging are completely automated.

 

The horizontal line with three vertical notches at the bottom of the HUD is a timing cue. It starts out long and shrinks towards the middle, and when it reaches the outer notches it's time to do your thing. You see it in action both when it's counting down to the pull-up point and when it's counting down to the appropriate moment to fire the rockets (you also get an extra cue in that case in the form of "wings" on the aiming point).

 

Do you have to set the correct QFE even if using the Radar to Range the target?

 

Or is that only needed if you do a "radarless" attack?

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Do you have to set the correct QFE even if using the Radar to Range the target?

 

Or is that only needed if you do a "radarless" attack?

 

Trigonometrically speaking you wouldn't need to you have the dive angle and you have the range to target with that you can calculate your height relative to the target.

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Do you have to set the correct QFE even if using the Radar to Range the target?

 

Or is that only needed if you do a "radarless" attack?

As I understand it, yes (but the manual section that deals with this is quite complicated and features gigantic flowcharts and a bunch of maths, etc, so caveat lector). Without QFE to give the computer an idea of where the target is, the radar won't activate. You'd think that it would be possible to implement automated QFE detection by combining information from the air data system (static pressure) and the radar altimeter, but I guess space for clever programs was at a premium in the CK37.

 

(edit: Just realized, I made a brainfart with the QFE detection stuff - the unknown you're seeking is the target's altitude, and your current altitude AGL and the current air pressure are tangent to this. The radar altimeter isn't of any help.)

 

Thanks for the great response! Certainly seems like a good system, especially for the time! I imagine the gun pods are aimed in a similar fashion?

 

Yep! The gun pods use exactly the same system - the manual covers both together. Interestingly, I think a very similar thing is also possible for attacking air targets with the gun pods - if I'm understanding the SFI correctly the radar can also do the same kind of automatic "lock" and ranging in that case too, despite not being intended as a fighter radar at all.


Edited by renhanxue
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As I understand it, yes (but the manual section that deals with this is quite complicated and features gigantic flowcharts and a bunch of maths, etc, so caveat lector). Without QFE to give the computer an idea of where the target is, the radar won't activate. You'd think that it would be possible to implement automated QFE detection by combining information from the air data system (static pressure) and the radar altimeter, but I guess space for clever programs was at a premium in the CK37.

 

 

 

Yep! The gun pods use exactly the same system - the manual covers both together. Interestingly, I think a very similar thing is also possible for attacking air targets with the gun pods - if I'm understanding the SFI correctly the radar can also do the same kind of automatic "lock" and ranging in that case too, despite not being intended as a fighter radar at all.

 

Thanks for the Response.

 

And here is a follow up =P

How Precise do you need to be with the QFE when using the radar?

(In order to get a precise enough targeting solution)

 

Spot on or just close enough for the radar to get an idea where to look?

 

 

or is there no info in the Manual to give an idea when it comes to that sort of thing.


Edited by mattebubben
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The dot in the center of the HUD is the actual aim point, not the aircraft's velocity vector. The reason you have to set QFE before the attack (that is, set the altimeter so it reads zero at the target's altitude) is that the slant range to the target is calculated with simple triangulation - the computer does simple trigonometry using only the pressure altitude and the sine of the dive angle and then corrects for ballistics and wind etc to give you a good impression of where the rockets are actually going to hit.

 

Cobra did the attack with the flight phase selector in the NAV(igation) mode, which means the triangulation is all you get as far as target ranging goes. If you switch it to ANF(all), which means "attack", you can also get radar ranging! If the triangulated slant range to the target is less than 7000 meters, the roll angle is <45° and the dive angle is >5°, the radar will automatically attempt to lock on what you're aiming at. As I understand it the aim point needs to be reasonably stable for 0.5 seconds for this to happen. Once locked on (the HUD will tell you by lighting up the "tailfin" on the velocity vector), if the target is moving and you follow it with the aim point, the computer will automatically track its motion, compute how much you need to lead it, and once you unsafe, the aim point will be compensated with that information so you can just point at the target and shoot. Nothing is shown on the radar screen or anything, you can't go head down in that kind of situation - the lock and the ranging are completely automated.

 

The horizontal line with three vertical notches at the bottom of the HUD is a timing cue. It starts out long and shrinks towards the middle, and when it reaches the outer notches it's time to do your thing. You see it in action both when it's counting down to the pull-up point and when it's counting down to the appropriate moment to fire the rockets (you also get an extra cue in that case in the form of "wings" on the aiming point).

 

how can you have only reputation power of 3??!! thanks for the deep insight!

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So reading the .doc make me think we need a new/improved weapon, fuel and CM loadout-UI just for the Viggen :)

 

Or maybe we just need to have many. many Viggen slots in MP each with different loadout to fit to the mission. I'm confused

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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So reading the .doc make me think we need a new/improved weapon, fuel and CM loadout-UI just for the Viggen :)

 

Or maybe we just need to have many. many Viggen slots in MP each with different loadout to fit to the mission. I'm confused

 

What makes you think that ?

What does the viggen need, what isnt there ?

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

*unexpected flight behaviour* Oh shiii*** ! What ? Why ? What is happening ?

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What makes you think that ?

What does the viggen need, what isnt there ?

 

Last I heard, the game engine still scratches its head at external countermeasure pods.

 

The other stuff, ie Rb 05 attack modes, could be handled on kneeboard pages.

DCS modules are built up to a spec, not down to a schedule.

 

In order to utilize a system to your advantage, you must know how it works.

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  • 1 month later...

Quick question - are the pop-up points working?

I've setup a few targets on the closed airstrip north of Kobuleti city. Approaching it from Batumi.

I did all of the steps - TAKT, IN, entered 11007 (110 deg, 7km), B2, OUT. After reaching B1 waypoint the nav automatically switches to U2 but still guides (HUD) directly to the M2. Or maybe I'm looking on a wrong place on the HUD?


Edited by firmek

F/A-18, F-16, F-14, M-2000C, A-10C, AV-8B, AJS-37 Viggen, F-5E-3, F-86F, MiG-21bis, MiG-15bis, L-39 Albatros, C-101 Aviojet, P-51D, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, Bf 109 4-K, UH-1H, Mi-8, Ka-50, NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf... and not enough time to fully enjoy it all

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Quick question - are the pop-up points working?

I've setup a few targets on the closed airstrip north of Kobuleti city. Approaching it from Batumi.

I did all of the steps - TAKT, IN, entered 11007 (110 deg, 7km), B2, OUT. After B1 the waypoint switches to U2 but still the nav (HUD) guides directly to the M2.

 

Yeah I've been thinking about reporting this, I get exactly the same behavior.

 

I've even loaded the mission from Cobra's video and followed the steps exactly. Doesn't work, the pop-up point still appears right over the target.

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Yeah I've been thinking about reporting this, I get exactly the same behavior.

 

I've even loaded the mission from Cobra's video and followed the steps exactly. Doesn't work, the pop-up point still appears right over the target.

Same here.

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Quick question - are the pop-up points working?

I've setup a few targets on the closed airstrip north of Kobuleti city. Approaching it from Batumi.

I did all of the steps - TAKT, IN, entered 11007 (110 deg, 7km), B2, OUT. After reaching B1 waypoint the nav automatically switches to U2 but still guides (HUD) directly to the M2. Or maybe I'm looking on a wrong place on the HUD?

 

 

 

What happens if you enter 110070 (extra zero at the end?)

DCS AJS37 HACKERMAN

 

There will always be bugs. If everything is a priority nothing is.

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