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Jammer mode [] switch functionality


Zeus67
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Jammer mode [] switch functionality  

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  1. 1. Jammer mode [] switch functionality

    • Do Nothing (Jammer remains in last operational mode).
      38
    • Always set the jammer to Standby.
      30
    • Always set the jammer to Active.
      2


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Hi folks,

 

I'm dealing with this issue:https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=178244

 

So basically they want to set the default functionality when you click the Jammer mode switch to the [] position.

 

I don't want to revisit this issue after I deal with it so here are the three available options:

 

1. Do nothing (in other words if it was in Standby the jammer remains in Standby, if it was Active it remains Active).

2. Always turn it to Standby.

3. Always turn it to Active.

 

Unless somebody indicates how it works in RL, one of these options will be implemented and no more discussion on the issue will be allowed.

 

Note: This poll will remain open until 2017-01-11

 

This is how Option 1 works:

 

VEI = jammer goes to standby: V is lit, BR is dark.

VEI -> [] = jammer remains in standby: V is lit, BR is dark. You must use HOTAS to change jammer mode.

[] -> PCM = jammer goes active: V is lit, BR is lit.

PCM -> [] = jammer remains active: V is lit, BR is lit. You must use HOTAS to change jammer mode.


Edited by Zeus67

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

"The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea."

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For me the logical function would be of just allowing the HOTAS button to activate deactivate the jammer emission.

 

It would go like this:

PCM->[] jammer is emitting and can be turned off and back on with the HOTAS button.

VEI->[] jammer is not emitting and can be turned on and back off with the HOTAS button.

 

It looks like option 1 correspond but i'm not sure...

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For me the logical function would be of just allowing the HOTAS button to activate deactivate the jammer emission.

 

It would go like this:

PCM->[] jammer is emitting and can be turned off and back on with the HOTAS button.

VEI->[] jammer is not emitting and can be turned on and back off with the HOTAS button.

 

It looks like option 1 correspond but i'm not sure...

 

Yes, that is option 1.

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

"The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea."

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It would go like this:

PCM->[] jammer is emitting and can be turned off and back on with the HOTAS button.

VEI->[] jammer is not emitting and can be turned on and back off with the HOTAS button.

This sounds right, so from a cold start, going from VEI -> [] would keep the jammer in standby, ready for the hotas to activate.

 

If thats option one, then yeah that would perfect.

 

 

Appreciate the response on this and your general view on feeback from us.

 

Thanks a bunch.

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Option 1 to me seems logical and consistent - the HOTAS basically inherits whatever the operational mode ECM was in prior to going into [].

 

The problem is if you had left the HOTAS selection as "activate" and switched to [] but didn't want to jam you would end up with a brief jamming signal before deactivating it. You just flashed the entire RWR world of your presence. And that's if you notice right away that the jammer is active.

 

Better to have it on standby when switching to [], if you intend to jam right away it's just a quick tap of the HOTAS and you're set.

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The problem is if you had left the HOTAS selection as "activate" and switched to [] but didn't want to jam you would end up with a brief jamming signal before deactivating it. You just flashed the entire RWR world of your presence. And that's if you notice right away that the jammer is active.

 

Better to have it on standby when switching to [], if you intend to jam right away it's just a quick tap of the HOTAS and you're set.

 

Why would you leave your hotas active if you are not in [] mode?

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Option 1 is more logical.

but 2 is more practical so i`ll go with 2.

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The problem is if you had left the HOTAS selection as "activate" and switched to [] but didn't want to jam you would end up with a brief jamming signal before deactivating it. You just flashed the entire RWR world of your presence. And that's if you notice right away that the jammer is active.

 

Better to have it on standby when switching to [], if you intend to jam right away it's just a quick tap of the HOTAS and you're set.

 

As I understand it, it is not a 2-position switch, that you can keep in ACTIVE while you shut down the ECM with the control in VEI, instead it is simply a toggle, and doesn't "remember" which state you commanded last, as myHellHumper said. In this case, if you were not emitting before switching in [], then you will not emit until after you choose to toggle it on (with option 1 and 2)

 

Option 1 will need you to deactivate the jammer if you go back to [] from PCM, while option 2 would automatically deactivate (and you can then re-activate it).

 

Personally, if no one can provide a clue as to how it should work IRL, I would say option 1 or 2. I think option 3, however, is both unsafe an illogical.

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To me it seems that option 2 is the most logical and usefull one - it keeps the pilot in full control of what is happening.

 

From operational point of view: you turn the knob from VEI (not emitting) to [] (still not emitting, if you don't want to) to PCM (emitting)

 

 

 

Also according to the latest manual, to me it seems as if the BR and V lights are mixed up:

 

RTM smartass.gif

 

578107438c5349354f3a9c522d1bd730.png

 

Imo: as long, as the Jammer is powered up, BR should be lit - similar to all the other lights. DA switch set to M -> DA light is lit, etc. therefore: BR switch is set to M -> BR light is lit.

 

And the V light then would notify the pilot about the current state of the Jammer: emitting or not emitting.

 

(Personally I would prefer a lit lamp if emitting and if not emitting, the light should be off. But I understand that "V" probably stands for "veille"/standby and thus the logic is inversed?)

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Imo: as long, as the Jammer is powered up, BR should be lit - similar to all the other lights. DA switch set to M -> DA light is lit, etc. therefore: BR switch is set to M -> BR light is lit.

 

And the V light then would notify the pilot about the current state of the Jammer: emitting or not emitting.

 

(Personally I would prefer a lit lamp if emitting and if not emitting, the light should be off. But I understand that "V" probably stands for "veille"/standby and thus the logic is inversed?)

 

You got it right, it was like this a few patches ago ;)

Helljumper - M2000C Guru

 

Helljumper's Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA

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How I understand the way it works in real life:

 

VEI: "Veille" in french / "Standby" - System is off

 

[]: "Normal" / - System is active and you can turn jammer on/off with the HOTAS button.

 

PCM: "Priorité Contre-mesure" / "ECM priority" - Jammer active but alterate/jamm your own radar. You can still turn it on/off via HOTAS.

 

 

Like that:

 

Notice some differences on status lights between this one and the actual one we have.

 

895568578107438c5349354f3a9c522d1bd730.png


Edited by Winterz
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How I understand the way it works in real life:

 

VEI: "Veille" in french / "Standby" - System is off

 

[]: "Normal" / - System is active and you can turn jammer on/off with the HOTAS button.

 

PCM: "Priorité Contre-mesure" / "ECM priority" - Jammer is stronger and alterate/jamm your own radar. You can still turn it on/off via HOTAS.

 

 

Now that is interesting. So that kind of makes sense, retaining the use of the HOTAS button in all the active modes.

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Imo: as long, as the Jammer is powered up, BR should be lit - similar to all the other lights. DA switch set to M -> DA light is lit, etc. therefore: BR switch is set to M -> BR light is lit.

Nope. That's not like this IRL. Both V and BR lights are part of the Jammer system.

 

And the V light then would notify the pilot about the current state of the Jammer: emitting or not emitting.

Nope. V is about the "listening" part of the jammer (which has to "listen" in order to be able to correctly "emit"=jam).

 

(Personally I would prefer a lit lamp if emitting and if not emitting, the light should be off.

Yes. That is what the BR light does.

 

But I understand that "V" probably stands for "veille"/standby

Indeed. I explained why above :)

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I may be on the wrong track here, but I think I see several problems.

First of all the chart from the manual does not seem to be very helpful, since you cannot differentiate between a VEI setting and the jammer emitting by just looking at the lights.

I like UF_Winterz' chart, and I assume that we will have the original chart corrected in the way he showed here.

That being said, option 1 of the poll would leave room for confusion since you will have no indication of the jammer's behavior if you had it previously turned on, then turned it off by rotating the knob to VEI (for whatever reason).

Unless there will be indications for the mode the jammer will be in when turning back to [], Option 2 sounds best to me.

 

( I have not voted yet and will wait to see what this discussion leads to )


Edited by kobeshow

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You have the V light under the RWR that is lit when the Jammer is in standby

 

That is correct. So lets assume I have the knob switched to [], and the HOTAS command on emit, V+BR are lit.

Now I switch the jammer off by rotating to VEI, only V is lit.

If I now turn the knob back to [], and we choose option 1 in the poll, the jammer will instantly start emitting, since it remembers my last HOTAS button setting, but I would have no way of knowing that.

So I would prefer option 2 unless there is some type of indication for the "remembered" HOTAS setting.

 

Hope this clears it up.

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So whats my indication that jamming is on? can we get the '*' in the RWR like F-15?

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The current implementation in game is wrong, the BR light should be always lit as long as the BR switch is on the M position

 

Again : no. Sorry.

 

When BR system switch is On, then V light is On.

 

It may sound a bit weird at first (because jammer has two status lights instead of only one for RWR or decoy launcher) but it is correct:

BR means brouilleur on the switch = relates to the powering of the jammer system in a whole. When "just" powered, it remains in listening (= V / veille) mode. Veille is in the sense of listening, not stand by, here.

BR means brouillage on the light = relates to the activation of the jamming emitter (=actively jamming)

 

 

So whats my indication that jamming is on?

BR light indicates that the jamming is active.

 

It has the exact same purpose as the * of the F-15 (which * doesn't exist on the 2000).


Edited by Azrayen
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