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Why is new WWII damage model a big deal?


The Black Swan
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Let me start off by saying I'm glad when ED announces any improvement to the sim, but I've got some questions as to why a new damage model is such a priority.

The biggest question is what is wrong with the current one?

I mean if you get shot in the wing you get bullet holes there, you might loose an aileron, or you might loose some control or even get your guns jammed.

Shot in the cockpit? You could die, have your instruments damaged, or just get some bullet holes in the canopy. There are fuel leaks, prop governer damage, engine overheating, pressure losses, and the like.

So my question is why is this such a priority?

 

I don't want to sound unthankful, but unless we are talking about bugs in the current damage model, I'm pretty satisfied with what we have now.

It's not perfect, but with so many big things on ED's to do list (Normandy, 2.5 and all its features, F-18, Carriers, etc.) I'm curious why this is a big deal.

If the current projects have all the people needed then it seems like focus could be put on long standing bugs or recent ones. Or perhaps a better damage model for the AI planes which is needed much more IMO. And if someone can convince me of the need of a new damage model, why just the WWII planes? Modern planes are more complex and give greater possibilities for learning how to troubleshoot.

 

Just curious...

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There are a number of issues with the current DM in DCS, these all need to be addressed to make a more realistic flight sim, you may see fluid leaks, but that doesnt mean you are losing fuel or oil, details like this can be missing.

 

As for the work being done to the DM, I believe Racoon said they brought someone in from IL2 that had experience with Damage modelling to work on it, so it shouldnt effect other things going on with the sim. I hope at some point this DM will be moved to all aircraft.

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There are a number of issues with the current DM in DCS, these all need to be addressed to make a more realistic flight sim, you may see fluid leaks, but that doesnt mean you are losing fuel or oil, details like this can be missing.

 

As for the work being done to the DM, I believe Racoon said they brought someone in from IL2 that had experience with Damage modelling to work on it, so it shouldnt effect other things going on with the sim.

 

That's good to hear but that raises the question what about the modern aircraft?

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That's good to hear but that raises the question what about the modern aircraft?

 

Sorry, I edited my post too late, I would hope this kind of tech would be shared among all aircraft eventually, including 3rd parties. Makes sense that it would be. WWII could be the test bed, because its probably the most noticeable.

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Sorry, I edited my post too late, I would hope this kind of tech would be shared among all aircraft eventually, including 3rd parties. Makes sense that it would be. WWII could be the test bed, because its probably the most noticeable.

 

Yes hopefully this will be included with the Hornet and Tomcat so that we can take advantage of their 2 engine survivability.

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Sorry, I edited my post too late, I would hope this kind of tech would be shared among all aircraft eventually, including 3rd parties. Makes sense that it would be. WWII could be the test bed, because its probably the most noticeable.

 

I would add even more, wish this for all the ground vehicles as well. Well heck everything!!

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I agree, but it will take some time, once they get aircraft straightened out, we can harass them about ground vehicles :)

 

So Sith im curious i know we dont really have any intimate details of this new damage model, but for curiosity sake ballistic damage on wings and or fuselage will this cause any Aerodynamic effects aka increase in drag and or disruption of the dynamics of flight?

 

Pretty excited for this, enhancement finally took the time and really am into the tail draggers in DCS world they are very good modules. Plus i think they are the most fun in VR

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So Sith im curious i know we dont really have any intimate details of this new damage model, but for curiosity sake ballistic damage on wings and or fuselage will this cause any Aerodynamic effects aka increase in drag and or disruption of the dynamics of flight?

 

Pretty excited for this, enhancement finally took the time and really am into the tail draggers in DCS world they are very good modules. Plus i think they are the most fun in VR

 

 

No real details yet, I am sure we will get updates on all this as its available. Personally though, I hold ED to a higher level, so I expect a very detailed DM :)

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So Sith im curious i know we dont really have any intimate details of this new damage model, but for curiosity sake ballistic damage on wings and or fuselage will this cause any Aerodynamic effects aka increase in drag and or disruption of the dynamics of flight?

 

Considering the WIP images that have been shown with quite a lot of stuff modelled, I'd certainly hope so.

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There is a great need for damage model improvement for AI controlled aircraft in multiplayer mode.

 

The problem with the damage model in multiplayer is: AI controlled aircraft can fly at 100% efficiency when they are heavily damaged. An AI adversary in a heavily damaged aircraft flies with no performance penalty.

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The AI damage modeling is the most critical in my point of view.

And we don't talk just about aircraft.

Especially ground forces have basically a hit bar with rudimentary damage "effects", currently.

If you blast a tank, Shilka or BMP with HE rockets you do not kill it, sure.

Yet the crew would be disoriented and unlikely to shoot at the trailing plane in a shooter- shooter run... Just as one example.

 

Along with the AI scripting, trigger system and path finding, the damage model is in my oppinion the most crucial thing to fix, after the merge into 2.5 is done.

 

Mission builders and designers are totally reliant on this, for campaigns and missions, single as well as multiplayer.

 

I am very happy that ED is working on a new damage model!

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Shagrat

 

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The AI damage modeling is the most critical in my point of view.

And we don't talk just about aircraft.

Especially ground forces have basically a hit bar with rudimentary damage "effects", currently.

If you blast a tank, Shilka or BMP with HE rockets you do not kill it, sure.

Yet the crew would be disoriented and unlikely to shoot at the trailing plane in a shooter- shooter run... Just as one example.

 

Along with the AI scripting, trigger system and path finding, the damage model is in my oppinion the most crucial thing to fix, after the merge into 2.5 is done.

 

Mission builders and designers are totally reliant on this, for campaigns and missions, single as well as multiplayer.

 

I am very happy that ED is working on a new damage model!

 

The simplistic ground unit damage model isn't restricted to AI, it also applies to ground units driven by players, because unlike with aircraft there is no difference in damage modeling between human and AI vehicles, or is there?

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What would be cool would be like a summary of the opponent you killed after the flight, how many kids he had, whetter he was married or single, did he die on landing or in the cockpit, what was his kill ratio and rank, did he eject but die on impact, or did he eject and drown, was he burned alive in the cockpit, or did he get concussion and lose control. Also would be cool if you could listen to the recorded cockpit voice messages from the enemy so you can hear his last words.


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The simplistic ground unit damage model isn't restricted to AI, it also applies to ground units driven by players, because unlike with aircraft there is no difference in damage modeling between human and AI vehicles, or is there?

No it is all the same, but it is extremely hassling when flying MP PvE missions and AI is driving around in uber-tanks...

Shagrat

 

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What would be cool would be like a summary of the opponent you killed after the flight, how many kids he had, whetter he was married or single, did he die on landing or in the cockpit, what was his kill ratio and rank, did he eject but die on impact, or did he eject and drown, was he burned alive in the cockpit, or did he get concussion and lose control. Also would be cool if you could listen to the recorded cockpit voice messages from the enemy so you can hear his last words.

Guess you posted in the wrong thread, this is about damage modeling aka AI planes are not having any performance penalty, until a critical section (Wing, engine) has 0 hit points.

With just 1 point remaining in every section AI fights like it has NO damage at all!

Shagrat

 

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The AI damage modeling is the most critical in my point of view.

And we don't talk just about aircraft.

Especially ground forces have basically a hit bar with rudimentary damage "effects", currently.

If you blast a tank, Shilka or BMP with HE rockets you do not kill it, sure.

Yet the crew would be disoriented and unlikely to shoot at the trailing plane in a shooter- shooter run... Just as one example.

I agree, and realy hope that we'll get a new damage model for ground units too, with proper armor penetration model, and systems damage (tracks, sights/targeting systems, engine,...).

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I agree, and realy hope that we'll get a new damage model for ground units too, with proper armor penetration model, and systems damage (tracks, sights/targeting systems, engine,...).

 

For sure. Just imagining scenarios where perhaps area affect damage can incapacitate a ground target while still keeping it alive. Yet, that is sufficient to take it out of action allowing us to conserve ammo and prioritize other targets.

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i would also like to see an improvement for the smoke and make it very thick and long like the ones in IL2 battle of stalingrad

 

because it feels so rewarding and satisfying when you see the aircraft trailing long thick smoke coming down after you shot it down

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I really hope either ground unit DM or aircraft AI is the next Big Thing ED works on after their current projects. I would love to see even a relatively simple damage model improvement for ground units. As in, a percentage chance of certain effects happening based on the hit location and weapon. I.e. turret hit with GAU: 40% chance crew death, 5% chance ammo explosion, 5% chance fire per bullet. Engine block hit with GAU per bullet: 20% chance engine destruction, 15% fire, 1% crew death. Engine block hit with a Vickhr missile: 95% chance engine destruction, 70% fire, 40% crew death. Direct hit anywhere with Mk. 82: 100% chance crew death, 80% fire, 50% ammo explosion. You get the rough idea.

 

I feel the WWII AI could use some work, too. I think three quarters of my kills against AI in my P-51 have been when the enemy decided to fly straight up when I was on their tail. In real life you normally would never do this (except for a few exemptions

)

 

Just a few things at the top of my personal wishlist of new features and improvements. :thumbup:


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Aircraft AI has been getting little bits of love here and there for a while now, its just slowly trickling in, possible waiting on the DM changes now. Ground unit DM would be nice as well, wont argue there, I would imagine what they are doing with aircraft can be translated to ground vehicles, I believe they even said that.

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