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Help Request - Trying to land


jjohnson241
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Hi,

After umpteen attempts I just can't get the hang at landing the Gazelle.

I get close then I either slip backward and/or to the side and wind up a smoking hole in the ground.

 

Request:

Can one of you Gazelle jockeys record a video or track with Controls Indicator ON and verbal instructions (if a video), showing me what you do to land the Gazelle? The videos I've found on You Tube lack either control indication and/or voice instruction and therefore are not that helpful.

 

I'd really appreciate it as would my dog who typically receives my wrath after my hole in the ground landing attempt.

 

Thanks

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

3rd Mar Div

RVN '66-'67

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I found it pretty skittish at first, and I'm only one step above a beginner, but I set the curves in the cyclic and rudder pedals quite high (30ish) and it seemed to help me big time. I also fly the Gazelle mostly in VR now, and it helps a lot too, although that might not be so useful for you. If you do get chance to try VR though, it takes the whole thing to a new level entirely. Stick with it though it's a beautiful thing, like riding an angry wasp that took speed.

i7-7700K/Gigabyte RTX2080/Win10 64bit/32Gb RAM/Asus Xonar DX+Sennheiser HD380pro headphones/LG 34" UM65 @2560x1080/TM Warthog+VKB MkIV Rudder pedals/Rift CV1

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Don't be disheartened. I fly the real thing and my landings are a tad untidy. I can land it safely, but a little messy. I think it is the grass coming up late and losing perspective. I'll spend some time tweaking it at the weekend and then try and figure out how to do the video you want.

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Don't be disheartened. I fly the real thing and my landings are a tad untidy. I can land it safely, but a little messy. I think it is the grass coming up late and losing perspective. I'll spend some time tweaking it at the weekend and then try and figure out how to do the video you want.

 

Thanks. I've read your posts here and I'll look forward to your video. Strange, I don't have the same problem with the UH-1 or the MI-8. I'm not great at either but I can land and walk away. I think the difference is that in those cases the vendor (DCS and Belsimtek) produced excellent "how to" videos and posted those here. They were very helpful and shortened the learning curve.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

3rd Mar Div

RVN '66-'67

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Thanks. I've read your posts here and I'll look forward to your video. Strange, I don't have the same problem with the UH-1 or the MI-8. I'm not great at either but I can land and walk away. I think the difference is that in those cases the vendor (DCS and Belsimtek) produced excellent "how to" videos and posted those here. They were very helpful and shortened the learning curve.

 

Take offs are quite easy. A bit of right rudder, not too much, some forward cyclic and a gentle bit of right. Bring power up to 50% then gently, very gently, bring in more power and be prepared to adjust. Don't hold it in the hover too long, gently nose over, increase torque, while adding right rudder, as it goes through translational lift ease off the rudder as it is no longer required and accelerate and climb.

 

Keep at this and within 15 minutes you should have it. Gently gently cachee monkey.

 

Landing is a bit more dynamic, even I make it messy 2 out of 5 times. Keep at it, it will come.:smartass:

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Take offs are quite easy. A bit of right rudder, not too much, some forward cyclic and a gentle bit of right. Bring power up to 50% then gently, very gently, bring in more power and be prepared to adjust. Don't hold it in the hover too long, gently nose over, increase torque, while adding right rudder, as it goes through translational lift ease off the rudder as it is no longer required and accelerate and climb.

 

Keep at this and within 15 minutes you should have it. Gently gently cachee monkey.

 

Landing is a bit more dynamic, even I make it messy 2 out of 5 times. Keep at it, it will come.:smartass:

 

Yeah, I tend towards the military take off wherein I'm accelerating and climbing right off the mark. I need to work on the hover then forward/climb variety.

I'll check out your track. If you are able, try to do a video with voice explaining your "moves".

 

Thanks again.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

3rd Mar Div

RVN '66-'67

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Heres a track I just did. Was ok from the cockpit but looks a bit ropey from outside. I'll try and put another one, a bit more tidy, with control indications tomorrow.

 

LOL, I watched the track and you crashed on take-off. We've had all kinds of problems with Tracks being screwed up of late and I hope that's what's happened to your track. If it is, then video is probably the best bet.

I did notice that your Gazelle was sporting a Marine livery. Given my knowledge of Marine coptor pilots, I understand now the takeoff problem. :pilotfly:

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

3rd Mar Div

RVN '66-'67

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I feel your pain with the Gazelle for me the visual cues that I have with the Huey are not as obvious in the Gazelle. Not to mention the 5 mtr interval on the altitude DME. It takes a bit to get used to, but the Gazelle is kinda like a sports bike whilst the Huey is like a cruiser

 

So far dialled the x and y saturation down to 25 not so twitchy.

 

Here's my attempt at the Gazelle

 

How do you land the Huey, I mean I don't use the instrument just pick a reference and use the horizon and drop it in*. If so you may need to adjust the height on the monitor to put the horizon about where your ears are height wise.

 

Another thing I don't notice the ground effect as much in the Gazelle. In the Huey if your rate of decent is about 1/2 to 1/3 feet then ground effect will put you into a hover at about 6 to 8 feet above deck.

 

* Well it's mostly an automatic thing now, still need to think a bit when landing on buildings and stuff. :music_whistling:

 

I Have the Gazelle in DCS 2.xx so there is no real training so it gets interesting practising and dodging Mi28's

 

Rotorhead11 has been most encouraging and my Gazelle flying and landing is getting better.

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Happy to put a few tracks up with hopefully control inputs. But I don't have time to create lessons with voice overs. I have a job and life to live, I do this for fun, with a hint to helping others. Sorry but I'm not your free flight school.

 

Practice and it will come. :pilotfly:

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LOL, I watched the track and you crashed on take-off. We've had all kinds of problems with Tracks being screwed up of late and I hope that's what's happened to your track. If it is, then video is probably the best bet.

I did notice that your Gazelle was sporting a Marine livery. Given my knowledge of Marine coptor pilots, I understand now the takeoff problem. :pilotfly:

 

The track obviously doesn't work I didn't crash. Ah well moving on.


Edited by Rotorhead11
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The track obviously doesn't work I didn't crash. Ah well moving on.

 

No it's not! DCS 2.0 same thing for me this morning saved the track when I got shot down, replayed it and I ended up slamming into a building??

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Happy to put a few tracks up with hopefully control inputs. But I don't have time to create lessons with voice overs. I have a job and life to live, I do this for fun, with a hint to helping others. Sorry but I'm not your free flight school.

 

Practice and it will come. :pilotfly:

 

Wasn't asking for a lesson(s), just some help.

Post the tracks if you have time.

Thanks

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

3rd Mar Div

RVN '66-'67

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I feel your pain with the Gazelle for me the visual cues that I have with the Huey are not as obvious in the Gazelle. Not to mention the 5 mtr interval on the altitude DME. It takes a bit to get used to, but the Gazelle is kinda like a sports bike whilst the Huey is like a cruiser

 

So far dialled the x and y saturation down to 25 not so twitchy.

 

Here's my attempt at the Gazelle

 

How do you land the Huey, I mean I don't use the instrument just pick a reference and use the horizon and drop it in*. If so you may need to adjust the height on the monitor to put the horizon about where your ears are height wise.

 

Another thing I don't notice the ground effect as much in the Gazelle. In the Huey if your rate of decent is about 1/2 to 1/3 feet then ground effect will put you into a hover at about 6 to 8 feet above deck.

 

* Well it's mostly an automatic thing now, still need to think a bit when landing on buildings and stuff. :music_whistling:

 

I Have the Gazelle in DCS 2.xx so there is no real training so it gets interesting practising and dodging Mi28's

 

Rotorhead11 has been most encouraging and my Gazelle flying and landing is getting better.

 

Thanks,

I land the Huey the same as you but perhaps using the Vertical Speed Instrument to control descent. VRS is a killer in the Huey and I am not always successful in avoiding it.

 

I don't know how you recorded the video but it paused every 5 seconds or so (buffering?) when I played it back.

 

I agree that VRS is missing or very much subdued in the Gazelle. My biggest problem landing the Gazelle is the approach and transition to hoover then landing. I decrease torque to lose altitude. I pull back on the cyclic to slow. I'm trying to execute a slow forward approach to a hover. When I get app 10-15 feet off the ground, the Gazelle falls off or reverses, gaining speed as it does so. At that point, all bets are off for a good landing and I'm chasing the damn thing all around the sky trying to stabilize.

 

What I'd like to be able to do is approach the landing spot while losing altitude, put on the "brakes", enter a hover and land.

 

Sounds simple.

 

I can Hover/Taxi the Gazelle, not well but I can do it. I have yet to figure out how to get in that state from altitude.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

3rd Mar Div

RVN '66-'67

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Here's a track I just recorded (1.7 MB, DCS 1.5.5, circa 15 minutes total).

 

Yeah, it's lengthy, but I wanted to do a boring takeoff, circuit, and a totally boring landing. IMHO, if you can fly a boring landing approach, you're more than halfway through figuring this sh*t out. ;)

 

I hope the track plays back okay. When I watched Rotorhead's track, there was a lot of really terrible headtracker problems and then a quick pop into the air, followed by immediate death. Rotorhead, when you play your own track, does it play okay for you?

 

Anyway. When I just watched my track, I could hardly see my cyclic inputs on the controls indicator, that's how twitchy the Gazelle is. The key, really, is just practice, practice and more practice. :thumbup:

 

Just a few notes regarding the approach: I wanted to come in from 10+ km away, which worked quite well. Visibility wasn't too good, but as I started to see the runway lights, I tried to very gently slow down while maintaining an equally gentle descent. My goal was to set down on the "09" runway markings. I missed it by about one helicopter length and had to adjust before touching down. ;)

 

The thing is, just do everything really smooth and slow, give yourself a lot of time and distance. I love to fly Vietnam style steep approaches, and the Gazelle is so nimble it can be stopped from 200 kph to a hover on a dime. But I strongly believe in learning the basics first, and then the Rambo stuff later. :thumbup:

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Yes VRS is a gotcha but seriously I listen to the Huey as there are a lot of clues about the state of the aircraft in the beautiful sound. Also I do check the instruments to confirm my reality agrees with the Huey's reality. :)

 

As for the clip probably better to DL and play from HDD our internet provider is undergoing changes.

 

What input devices are you using?

 

I had to reduce sensitivity of the cyclic a lot and set curve for collective.

 

I find the Gazelle transitions goes through ETL probably a little smother then the Huey it also takes a bit to get used to the altitude DME a metre is a big unit compared to a foot.

 

I was damn close to giving up on the Gazelle at about 6 Hours I just couldn't fly it with a smile on my face like the I can with Huey, you know what I mean. But now coming up to 13 hours and about 600 landings I'm starting to smile when flying the Gazelle.

 

I gave my oldest a go at the Huey (His a gamer not a sim flyer) and I talked him though flying it same as my daughter, my biggest thing was making sure they used small inputs . Then When My son had a go at the Gazelle it was remember when I said small inputs with the Gazelle it's really really small inputs. I think that is important as my son slammed the Gazelle into the runway in nought seconds flat.

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Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Thank you for this info.

 

All involved.

 

Very helpful, especially for beginners.

 

It took me 8 hours before I started to get comfortable.

 

I did not have these lessons!

 

The biggest hardware help was a home made Cyclic and Collective.

 

But I had to re-learn my control inputs.

That took another few hours!

 

Perhaps make a sticky of this thread or info?

"Yeah, and though I work in the valley of Death, I will fear no Evil. For where there is one, there is always three. I preparest my aircraft to receive the Iron that will be delivered in the presence of my enemies. Thy ALCM and JDAM they comfort me. Power was given unto the aircrew to make peace upon the world by way of the sword. And when the call went out, Behold the "Sword of Stealth". And his name was Death. And Hell followed him. For the day of wrath has come and no mercy shall be given."

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The biggest hardware help was a home made Cyclic and Collective.

 

But I had to re-learn my control inputs.

That took another few hours!

 

Perhaps make a sticky of this thread or info?

 

I'll assume the "retraining" was worth it for you with a real cyclic and collective set up. :)

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Here's a track I just recorded (1.7 MB, DCS 1.5.5, circa 15 minutes total).

 

Yeah, it's lengthy, but I wanted to do a boring takeoff, circuit, and a totally boring landing. IMHO, if you can fly a boring landing approach, you're more than halfway through figuring this sh*t out. ;)

 

I hope the track plays back okay. When I watched Rotorhead's track, there was a lot of really terrible headtracker problems and then a quick pop into the air, followed by immediate death. Rotorhead, when you play your own track, does it play okay for you?

 

Anyway. When I just watched my track, I could hardly see my cyclic inputs on the controls indicator, that's how twitchy the Gazelle is. The key, really, is just practice, practice and more practice. :thumbup:

 

Just a few notes regarding the approach: I wanted to come in from 10+ km away, which worked quite well. Visibility wasn't too good, but as I started to see the runway lights, I tried to very gently slow down while maintaining an equally gentle descent. My goal was to set down on the "09" runway markings. I missed it by about one helicopter length and had to adjust before touching down. ;)

 

The thing is, just do everything really smooth and slow, give yourself a lot of time and distance. I love to fly Vietnam style steep approaches, and the Gazelle is so nimble it can be stopped from 200 kph to a hover on a dime. But I strongly believe in learning the basics first, and then the Rambo stuff later. :thumbup:

 

Yurgon, Thanks, I'll take a look at your track in the am. I saw the same as you when I tried Rotorheads track.

Flagbum, I have a Thrust master Warthog horas. No curves or otherwise sensitivity adjustments but I do have a 4 inch extension on the joystick.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

3rd Mar Div

RVN '66-'67

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What I'd like to be able to do is approach the landing spot while losing altitude, put on the "brakes", enter a hover and land.

 

Sounds simple.

 

Have you tried the put your destination point just above the the top of the dash trick in the Huey? (it's very effective) I'm trying it with the Gazelle but it doesn't seem as effective*, I'm currently setting the attitude picking a point to land and setting that point towards the bottom of the windscreen wiper blade maybe a bit more practice and experimentation here.

 

*Maybe it's more effective as I transition into hover before the point I want to land, much lighter aircraft.

 

I can Hover/Taxi the Gazelle, not well but I can do it. I have yet to figure out how to get in that state from altitude.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

I know everyone says it but mastering hovering is key, well it was for me when I was learning the Huey and seems equally the same regarding the Gazelle, the speedy little beast that it is.


Edited by FragBum

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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I'll assume the "retraining" was worth it for you with a real cyclic and collective set up. smile.gif
Best thing I ever did was make the controls.

 

Using old joysticks the final cost was about 200.00.

 

Including encoders in the Cyclic.

 

As everyone has said, tiny movements are key.

 

The difference in deflection with a height of 12 inches to 24 inches is striking.

 

I had to learn to use two fingers.

 

Very tough to break the grab the handle habit!

 

You want to have the other controls at the ready which is tough to do holding the stick this way.

 

So I had to re program my set-up to accommodate this approach.

 

Voice attack and Viacom help with this.

 

Enjoy the ride.

 

Hawkeye (Gazelle Addict)

"Yeah, and though I work in the valley of Death, I will fear no Evil. For where there is one, there is always three. I preparest my aircraft to receive the Iron that will be delivered in the presence of my enemies. Thy ALCM and JDAM they comfort me. Power was given unto the aircrew to make peace upon the world by way of the sword. And when the call went out, Behold the "Sword of Stealth". And his name was Death. And Hell followed him. For the day of wrath has come and no mercy shall be given."

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Here's a track I just recorded (1.7 MB, DCS 1.5.5, circa 15 minutes total).

 

Yeah, it's lengthy, but I wanted to do a boring takeoff, circuit, and a totally boring landing. IMHO, if you can fly a boring landing approach, you're more than halfway through figuring this sh*t out. ;)

 

I hope the track plays back okay. When I watched Rotorhead's track, there was a lot of really terrible headtracker problems and then a quick pop into the air, followed by immediate death. Rotorhead, when you play your own track, does it play okay for you?

 

Anyway. When I just watched my track, I could hardly see my cyclic inputs on the controls indicator, that's how twitchy the Gazelle is. The key, really, is just practice, practice and more practice. :thumbup:

 

Just a few notes regarding the approach: I wanted to come in from 10+ km away, which worked quite well. Visibility wasn't too good, but as I started to see the runway lights, I tried to very gently slow down while maintaining an equally gentle descent. My goal was to set down on the "09" runway markings. I missed it by about one helicopter length and had to adjust before touching down. ;)

 

The thing is, just do everything really smooth and slow, give yourself a lot of time and distance. I love to fly Vietnam style steep approaches, and the Gazelle is so nimble it can be stopped from 200 kph to a hover on a dime. But I strongly believe in learning the basics first, and then the Rambo stuff later. :thumbup:

 

Yurgon,

I unzipped your track and I got a folder with track info but no .TRK to play in the sim. Can you repost just the .trk ?

Thanks

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

3rd Mar Div

RVN '66-'67

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I unzipped your track and I got a folder with track info but no .TRK to play in the sim. Can you repost just the .trk ?

 

Well it *is* just the track file. Why would you unzip it? :huh:

 

The track works for me. It's not zipped, just copy it in your 1.5 tracks folder.

 

Thx for confirmation. :thumbup:

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Well it *is* just the track file. Why would you unzip it? :huh:

 

 

 

Thx for confirmation. :thumbup:

 

Apparently Win 10 converts a .trk file extension to .zip. I guess the file extension definitions need work. Anyhow, I restored the .trk file extension and the track played fine.

 

Good job on the landing. Question, did you use Trim while on the circuit and/or while landing?

 

Thanks

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

3rd Mar Div

RVN '66-'67

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