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[REPORTED]Conditions for Launch Authorization? (Su-25T KAB500kr)


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I'm wondering what the conditions for launch authorisation are, and if they are documented anywhere.

 

I've been trying to fly the Su25t "Command Post Strike" mission, but I always seem to end up overflying the target before getting launch authorization - the range bar on the left is within parameters, and the Shkaval is targeted and highlighted (though not autosnapped - even fiddling with the target size doesn't work). The bomb never gets anywhere near the target when overriding.

 

Is there anything obvious I'm missing?


Edited by BIGNEWY
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You'll need to have your finger on the launch button as the launch indicator gets close (left side of HUD IIRC). The window for launching this weapon is so very very short. If you miss the window, authorization is gone for this pass. Try slowing your attack run if possible, that gives you a bit more time to react after you get launch authorization. Don't override or this weapon will fall short. I usually release when I hear the first part of the "Launch Authorized" command, don't wait for the entire two words. When you hear "Lau...." it's time to hit the button!

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Actually I'm wondering if there is some new bug preventing this from working. I've now run the mission several times, pointed at it from a good distance away, got a perfect, contoured lock and "launch Authorisation" within a good envelope and the bomb ALWAYS lands behind the target, by a consistent amount.

 

When I ran this mission before in exactly the same circumstances I managed to without a problem. I'm not sure how to test if this is a bug or not.

 

Also, re: issues, turns out view: Low means that you can't see the target, or even the airport, until you are almost right on top of it, and that includes the airport runway, and It does seem as though you can't get the contour lock until after you are within launch range, which is annoying.

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This is a guess, but I believe it is the same issue as with other TV guided weapons and Shkval. In low visibility and/or low contrast environment it cannot determine an object, and therefore you don't get a launch authorization. Consequently, KAB-500Kr misses. Didn't use it recently, but before it was (almost) a no-miss weapon.

 

To determine whether it is a bug or not, try to use them in broad daylight on tanks in open field.

 

15732687_1149108515210697_924626954405255204_o.jpg?oh=45edf1ac2727f815f2220bac86090610&oe=59217A97

 

This image is maybe from year ago. You can see a pretty wide launch zone at this altitude. It provides you with nice standoff, also. The lower you are, the smaller release window you have.


Edited by Rabb
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It's a pretty clear daylight mission. I tried the 500Kr tutorial and it hit the tanks fine, even from altitude - perhaps it's static objects?

 

Here's a one minute video of it going wrong, I'm pretty sure I did everything right:

 

 

Timeline for video:

  • 12: Launch authorized
  • 16: Contour lock on target
  • 18-22: Munitions deployed
  • 33: Switch to bomb view
  • 60: Both bombs miss target

 

From experience this week, when I get LA but don't wait for a contour, it misses by even larger distances.


Edited by NickD
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It's a pretty clear daylight mission. I tried the 500Kr tutorial and it hit the tanks fine, even from altitude - perhaps it's static objects?

 

Here's a one minute video of it going wrong, I'm pretty sure I did everything right:

 

 

Timeline for video:

  • 12: Launch authorized
  • 16: Contour lock on target
  • 18-22: Munitions deployed
  • 33: Switch to bomb view
  • 60: Both bombs miss target

 

From experience this week, when I get LA but don't wait for a contour, it misses by even larger distances.

OK, this is looking like the same issue we are having with the Kh-58U and Kh-25mpu SEAD weapons. The weapons seem to turn away from the target in the final momemts. NickD will you read this topic: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=176983 and look at the examples we've provided to ED on our bug discovery? If you think it's a similar or the same issue, feel free to add your problem and video to the other post for ED to see. I'll make a new post there and link to your thread here as your observations look very similar.

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OK, this is looking like the same issue we are having with the Kh-58U and Kh-25mpu SEAD weapons. The weapons seem to turn away from the target in the final momemts. NickD will you read this topic: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=176983 and look at the examples we've provided to ED on our bug discovery? If you think it's a similar or the same issue, feel free to add your problem and video to the other post for ED to see. I'll make a new post there and link to your thread here as your observations look very similar.

 

Oh dear, I'll have a look through but this doesn't look good, as the large number of ignored Su25t bugs makes it clear that either nobody cares or it's so long down the priority list as to never get fixed.

 

Also FWIW I tried a dive and released them at about 500m whist flying a kamikaze run straight towards them and it actually hit. But I don't think that's what they are designed for...

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Hi, guide for KAB500Kr from EVAC (virtual fighting school)

- minimum altitude 1000 meters

- stabilize altitude (LAlt 4) / A/G mode (7) / activate Shkval (O) or Mercury for night (RCtrl O)

- adjust target size on Shkval (Alt + / Alt -) for a vehicule it's 10

- place Shkval cursor on target (m ; : !) and lock (Tab)

- stabilize Banking (Alt-1) because su25t is destabilized after launching KAB500Kr

- shoot when launch authorization

(usefull pdf in french : http://www.evac-fr.net/docs/Evac/Evac_SU-25T_Mode_AS.pdf)

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just a wild guess, try enable the Laser and see if that helps, if it is a laser guided bomb only of course

 

It's not, but I tried anyway (before you edited?) and yeah, no effect. Although for some reason the LA didn't come up until about 5km before the target, with exactly the same fly-in.

 

 

The last-second turn is really well noticed, it had completely passed me by; the drop-curve looks like it would miss anyway, but do the missiles turn like that deliberately to have a steeper drop at the end? The rotation could be being miscalculated...

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Don't despair NickD. We already have ED's attention on the SEAD missiles issue and I don't think it's something they are ignoring, it's just with the holiday season just ending and their work on the 2.5 merge, sometimes fixes don't come as fast as we'd like them to. Also sometimes their internal build doesn't have our 1.5.5 bugs.

 

But most importantly they will now be aware of your discovery, which I think after watching your video is the same issue as our missiles bug. I have just linked your topic here in our SEAD missiles topic. It won't be long until BIGNEWY sees it and passes the work to ED about these two very similar weapons issues.

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Here's some more actual data for this: Tacview's graph of altitude and roll for the missile clearly showing the effect. Unfortunately because the timeframe is so small tacview doesn't have so much data for a smoother curve.

 

You can also see the immediate projected path noticeably changing - I've marked where the missile actually hits on the image.

missileturn.thumb.jpg.ea3fbda86132417e90d66ae19ae5b8c1.jpg

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Hi again,

the "way to go" i gave in fact works perfectly - I've just destroyed a tank M1A1 and a building (fortress) with this method and KAB500Kr in the nevada map 5 minutes ago.

By default the target size is 10 so I first killed the tank and on the second pass I adjusted target size to 48 so the Shkval locked the building (with smaller size setting it wouldn't lock) and the 2 bombs just made a perfect impact on target. I used both stabilize in altitude and in Banking with no "diving" issue.

That's all I can say for now ^^

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Hi again,

the "way to go" i gave in fact works perfectly - I've just destroyed a tank M1A1 and a building (fortress) with this method and KAB500Kr in the nevada map 5 minutes ago.

By default the target size is 10 so I first killed the tank and on the second pass I adjusted target size to 48 so the Shkval locked the building (with smaller size setting it wouldn't lock) and the 2 bombs just made a perfect impact on target. I used both stabilize in altitude and in Banking with no "diving" issue.

That's all I can say for now ^^

 

IIRC 2.0 tends to lag several months behind 1.5 in terms of engine updates, so it would make sense that it doesn't have the same issues.

 

Edit: The altimeter bug is much more long-standing, but if you are flying with an altimeter set to sea-level then it won't affect you. This is compounded by the fact that some missions start with it set to local airfield pressure (as it should do) rather than always set to sea level


Edited by NickD
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Ok.... sorry for the trolling.... you're right it just doesn't have the same issues.

I tried several times the mission "command post strike" and it's impossible for KAB500Kr to work correctly.

No issue in 2.0.4 Nevada but bug in 1.5.5 "command post strike" mission.

 

That's okay, it's not trolling if it's not deliberate!

 

 

New theory: The bomb inaccuracy is completely deliberate to simulate WW2-style bombing tech :)

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  • ED Team

Hi guys,

 

I will make some time to look closer at this. I have asked the question to an ED team member if I get some useful info I will pass it on.

 

edit: This looks like a different issue to the anti radiation missiles and I will make a report once I have some findings


Edited by BIGNEWY

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I have spent some time today looking at the Su-25T / KAB500kr and all seems to be ok with our internal build

 

Launch parameters depend a lot on altitude, I will see if I can find some data on it


Edited by BIGNEWY

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OK, I just tested, KAB-500Kr are missing.

 

I tried with create fast mission, had them and attacked a group of tanks. Shkval recognized targets from far away, I waited untill I got Launch authorization for KAB-500Kr, released them, and they both missed stationary targets. Either overshot or went sideways. Usually, they go sideways, and miss by far margin.

 

Even almost perfectly aligned, from 4500-5000m altitude, and at half (not maximum) of release window.


Edited by Rabb
Another round of testing performed
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If you have a track showing it please attach and I will take a look.

 

thanks

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I suggest that everyone who's interested in this issue, watch again NickD's video on page one of this topic. Very near the video's end you can clearly see the bomb change attitude/direction just before impact. Watch when he begins to slew the view around a bit. This is very similar to the anti-radiation missiles terminal behavior.

CPU: i7 980x @ 4.2GHz RAM: 24gb Corsair Vengeance

MB: Gigabyte Sniper X58 w/onboard Soundblaster X-Fi

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The reason I tested was due to the video

 

I have tested using an internal build and the open beta and I am not seeing it myself, which is why I am asking for a track.

If you have a short one showing this issue please attach it, I will be happy to check it.

 

 


Edited by BIGNEWY

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