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aerial refueling tips?


grabby

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  • 1 month later...

Anyone got a decent AAR practice mission they would kindly share for the M2000-C?

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  • 1 month later...
@Pilum, I noticed that when they connect the basket seems to be magnetic or something like that do you know if this is true or did i miss something.

 

If the basket is magnetic i reckon that is something we can use in DCS.

 

Its a set of spring loaded rollers in the "basket receptacle".

 

The"probe and drogue" method uses simpler hardware to accomplish and maintain the connection between tanker and receiver, but the gripping mechanism resides in the shackle incorporated in the drogue trailing at the end of the hose extended behind the tanker aircraft. A probe-equipped aircraft overtakes the tanker's hose and makes contact by shoving the probe in to engage the rollers. The hose reel senses inward and outward movement within a specified range to keep fuel flowing; when it's time to disconnect, the receiver smoothly backs away until the end of the hose is reached and simply pulls free of the drogue.

 

Fuel flows when the receivers valve is forced open by fuel pressure from the tanker. It stops when we pull out from the spring rollers. There's a bit of fuel left in front of the probe and you usually see a bit of spray after you disconnect! It's all very visceral and you can draw all sorts of innuendos from the joining!:D

 

Perhaps we could just have some tighter springs in the receptacle?:joystick:

 

Cheers

 

David

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I agree that a stronger connection would be good although I feel more practice on my part would make this a moot point.

 

I took the plunge and decided to spend some quality time practicing this. At first it was a challenge just to make it connect. Then when I connected for the first time I of course freaked out and caused a disconnect. After that making the connection is becoming second nature but staying connected is a different story. Probably the best I have been able to do is 15 seconds. Fortunately reconnecting is a breeze now. The acceleration carrets in the HUD really help with dialing in the correct speed

 

If there was an easy mode it would be nice for it to just maintain the connection once you are connected until the tanks are full

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The best tip is in 2 words

Fuel tanks

I hate air refueling its impossible

 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

 

agreed!

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agreed!

 

+1

 

It's a very difficult skill to master sat in front of a monitor, in an office chair with a couple of plastic joysticks, with only so many hours in a day!

 

Perhaps it would be easier with an Occulus Rift? But that's just me blaming the tools!:joystick:

 

I see You Tube videos of a guy refuelling the M2k from a boom? As well as from a Russian tanker? Make of that what you will.:smilewink:

 

I for one console myself in the knowledge that I can fly over the entire two map regions, completing all missions without needing to refuel. If I had to carry a centerline tank, I had just better be more accurate with the ordinance I have on board!

 

Regards

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]i7 Haswell @ 4.6Ghz, Z97p, GTX1080, 32GB DDR3, x3SSD, Win7/64, professional. 32" BenQ, TIR 5, Saitek x55 HOTAS.

Search User Files for "herky" for my uploaded missions. My flight sim videos on You Tube. https://www.youtube.com/user/David Herky

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Been working on AAR, and there are a few things that help with the Mirage.

 

Enable G-limiter. This will dampen your control inputs and make it easier to make those small adjustments when approaching and staying connected with the basket.

 

Fly formation with the tanker and set trim appropriately if asymmetrically loaded before you engage the basket.

 

Prepare for a Fox-2 launch when frustration level reaches max. Enable some of the user scripts here that auto-respawn the tanker to retry AAR.

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The best tip is in 2 words

Fuel tanks

Mweh, I would say the best tip in 2 words is "practice practice". I can fuel up my Mirage from ~400kg to 7400kg (3 bags) with maybe 3 or 4 disconnects after many many many hours of practice on the Mirage. But I have a buddy who can do it in 1 single refueling action without disconnecting even a single time. And he only flies the Mirage a couple of hours per month (if not less). However, he does have ridiculously many hours on refueling in the F-15 and A-10, and just applies the same skill on the Mirage. (The same buddy also regularly refuels a F-15 behind a IL-78, just so he can stay by my wing and doesn't have to divert to a KC-135..)

 

It's all about developing the feeling. Once you have that, you can do it (in DCS).

 

* For those interested in AAR. There's a bunch of it in the above video. Me in the mirage from ~1:00 - 3:20 and my buddy in a F-15 (behind a Russian tanker) from ~6:15 until the end.

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I will add that not all hints you find online might be applicable in all cases.

For instance i found hint that i should avoid rolling the plane and use only yaw....

 

Silly me i didn't even tried to make my own opinion at first and accepted it as fact.

After so many unsuccessful attempts i just gave up.

Then few weeks later just for laugh fired that scenario up again and completely forgot the "no aileron" advice.

 

Guess what? First try.

 

If you like me don't have too precise rudder control don't follow that advice.

Do what is comfortable for you.

It is good advice and i understand why it was given. But without precise rudder i cannot recommend it.

 

also found refuelling from il78 to be lot easier then that small plane ...Intruder or what is it.

Small one seems to dance all over the sky. IL78 seems more stable one. Possibly due to its size.

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  • 2 weeks later...
best tip i got: fix your eys on the tanker nothing else. ignore the basket completely, even the connect is easier when my looking at the tanker. this really did the trick for me

 

 

For some reason this is doing the opposite for me :D I rather get contacts if I solely focus on the basket and then adjust with tiny inputs. Looking on the tanker causes me to be too far to the right or left to the basket hence not getting a contact.

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  • 2 years later...

I realise this is an old thread but I only started aerial refuelling lately, I tried it first with the Tomcat, which I was able to do reasonably well after a bit of practise but the Mirage was something altogether more difficult.

 

I find the Mirage (when compared to the F14) overly pitch and roll sensitive and with a less sensitive throttle.

 

After a couple of hours practise and some tweaked settings I was able to refuel it ok. I thought I would share my setting and experience. This is what worked for me.

 

I'm doing this in VR on Oculus Rift. On my mission, I used a KC-135 MPRS set to fly at 15,000ft and 270 Knots out over the sea on the Caucasus map. For some unknown reason the tanker decided to fly at 217 Knots. Your tanker speed may be different to mine, so you'll have to convert the speeds I mention here.

 

As I approach the tanker I set the G limit switch to prevent extreme flight modes, and extend the slats, this dulls the performance and help stabilise things.

 

I practised using x3 empty fuel tanks and x2 Magics.

 

Trim the aircraft spot on before you start and get the throttle set so that it will gently accelerate by 1 knot every few seconds. I found the throttle was too insensitive, you'd end up giving it a shove to get the aircraft moving and then almost immediately dialling back the power or it would start overspeeding.

 

I approached the tanker slowly at about 220knots, keeping the horizontal top of my HUD lined up with the centre cross section of the basket (like the HUD top was chopping the basket in two) and trimming the speed with a dab of air brake

 

I keep my eye on the MPRS fuel pod and try to line it up with the centre of my HUD but fractionally to the right. As I start to get close I dab the air brake to keep the speed at 218 or 219. Don't look at the basket and don't make any sudden pitch or roll movements, above all don't try and chase the basket. If you miss, just engage the brake and drop back slightly.

 

Connect at 218 knots and immediately let the aircraft run on slightly, so there is slack in the line. From here on it keep watching the speed. If it picked up to 219 or 220 I'd dab the brake and if it got to 216 I'd release it and maybe punt the throttle slightly. After connecting I found it helpful to fix my eyes on the MPRS pod and move the aircraft so it lines up with a fixed point on the HUD, like the compass bearing or something, this would mean raising up slightly behind the tanker but I found it help keep the wandering oscillations to a minimum.

 

I found it helpful to add some curve into the axis tune in DCS, attached below are screen grabs of what worked for me. Above all smoothness pays dividends. When I started the pilot induced oscillations kept making me think there was something wrong with the tanker or me. It does get smoother, just keep at it.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g51cz3xs4tk44em/IMG_6803.HEIC?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w13worbnhz6jdbk/IMG_6804.HEIC?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3k51kcsko4806ft/IMG_6805.HEIC?dl=0


Edited by iChasney
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About the speed: the mission editor set True Air Speed (TAS), but your aircraft react to Calibrated Air Speed (CAS) displayed in your HUD.

The difference is loss of pressure due to altitude.

 

If you want to fly at 270kt CAS (good speed for air refuelling) at 15 000ft, you need to set the tanker around 330kt TAS.

The slower, the higher AoA and the more difficult it is.

 

You will find online free software to convert, or use aviation slider ruler.

 

FBW set to CHARGES is real World procedure. It’s enough for me, no need to lock the SLAT open.

 

Apart from that your technique is good. :thumbup:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Best tip for formation flying / AA refueling : if you can buy a stick with high end gimbal (virpil or vkb). The precision you get around the center of the stick is in a different universe, compared to the Warthog / TM / etc..

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