Your fav tactics against Su-27 in a merge ?

[PrototypeBayu8]

Title says it all, write down your preferable tactics below.:)

 

Thanks,

PB8

[winchesterdelta1]

Only merge with 75% internal fuel or less. Watch out for off boresight shots. Keep energy high.

[razo+r]

stay fast

keep visual

keep flare button ready to spam

and most important, don't blackout

[Sweep]

Bracket from 10+ miles with targeted fighter dragging bandit around slightly offensive after the merge til the wingman can put a heater in his cranium.

 

Alternatively, do the unexpected. Have you ever flown into a merge at 280 knots? I hear Flanker guys love level one circle gameplans.

[probad]

turn radar off

 

Edited January 23, 2017 by probad

[The_Joker_20]

keep visual

try to stay behind or underneath its FOV of r 73

spray the vulcan

[Bushmanni]

Shoot it down before the first pass.

[SinusoidDelta]

Obviously it depends what type of engagement. If your hypothetical question allows AIM-120C's and and radar contact at 20nm then the same as vs any aircraft. Come in very high, very fast, gimballed left/right, at 10+ miles center the dot, double tap and crank.

[B2Blain]

I started playing with the "create a mission." I set the difficulty level to easy with the amount of aircraft to medium. I usually fly with a flight of four along with a flight or F-16s or Hornets.

 

I typically offset to the left and do not fire my AMRAAMs until the bandits are about 10 nm base on limited previous success with longer shots. I am lucky if I get a 50% hit rate. I blow past the first wave and start going after the second wave, but often I get shot down by the fighters that just went by me. I was hoping to avoid presenting my six to the second wave but got shot down just the same.

 

What's the correct tactics in this situation? What makes it difficult is that the AI wingmen have trouble following orders. I'll try and turn with the first wave the next time I fly. Or maybe I should stagger my flight in back of the AI F-16s/Hornets?

[probad]

bayonet charges have been a suboptimal tactic for quite some time now

 

that said even in a bayonet charge you'd be well advised to kill the guy in front of you before working on the guy behind him.

Edited January 24, 2017 by probad

[B2Blain]

Is there a preferred way to use your AI wingmen?

 

First the formation: I have ordered them to pincer right. It does nothing. They reply pincer right but don't seem to shoot anyone down. I haven't had much luck with line abreast either. I haven't tried trail. If I put them in trail they could handle the leakers if they were not so stupid.

 

I am using VIACOM 2.0 so I don't know if the issue is technical or a workflow issue. Formations generally work. Radar on and music on also. But can someone tell me the difference between - engage bandits and engage? I am thinking "engage bandits" is engage my bandit and "engage" is more of a weapons free.

[RastahMan]

F-15C Aim120C are really good, so staying in BVR is good idea, when it comes to dogfighting Su-27 got edge, especially with R-73's.

[DarkFire]

Title says it all, write down your preferable tactics below.:)

 

Thanks,

PB8

 

I'll offer some comments from the perspective of a Flanker driver.

 

1) If you have to merge with a Flanker, something has already gone wrong.

 

2) You have a better T/W ratio, especially at low weight, better acceleration and better climb rate. Consider using the vertical. Trying a 1C horizontal fight against a competent Flanker driver is not a good idea.

 

3) Mk.1 eyeball is the order of the day. The Flanker will likely be using EOS rather than radar to track you so you won't know where he is unless you track him visually.

 

4) Be ready to pump out flares at a moments notice. The off-boresight capability of the R-73 together with the helmet mounted sight means that a missile could come from an unexpected angle.

 

5) If the Flanker driver does get behind you, use your superior roll rate to remain unpredictable & deny a gun firing solution.

 

6) Energy excursions, especially high-alpha ones, can use a lot of energy in the Flanker. If you see the Flanker doing any theatrics in order to get a missile off or his gun on target, and if that move is unsuccessful, then you have an opportunity and likely a significant energy advantage. Use it wisely.

[SinusoidDelta]

I started playing with the "create a mission." I set the difficulty level to easy with the amount of aircraft to medium. I usually fly with a flight of four along with a flight or F-16s or Hornets.

 

I typically offset to the left and do not fire my AMRAAMs until the bandits are about 10 nm base on limited previous success with longer shots. I am lucky if I get a 50% hit rate. I blow past the first wave and start going after the second wave, but often I get shot down by the fighters that just went by me. I was hoping to avoid presenting my six to the second wave but got shot down just the same.

 

What's the correct tactics in this situation? What makes it difficult is that the AI wingmen have trouble following orders. I'll try and turn with the first wave the next time I fly. Or maybe I should stagger my flight in back of the AI F-16s/Hornets?

 

Start by creating a smaller engagement, 2v1 then 2v2. Most of the facts in this book apply:

http://www.scaredscriptless.com/images/jason/Star-Citizen/ACM/Fighter%20Combat%20-%20Tactics%20and%20Maneuvering.pdf

 

Also, you aren't going to get hits firing at 10nm unless you are very high and very fast. Think more like < 6nm. Firing a spoiler shot from > 6nm can force the bandit defensive which may or may not be advantageous.

[B2Blain]

Start by creating a smaller engagement, 2v1 then 2v2. Most of the facts in this book apply:

http://www.scaredscriptless.com/images/jason/Star-Citizen/ACM/Fighter%20Combat%20-%20Tactics%20and%20Maneuvering.pdf

 

Also, you aren't going to get hits firing at 10nm unless you are very high and very fast. Think more like < 6nm. Firing a spoiler shot from > 6nm can force the bandit defensive which may or may not be advantageous.

 

Thanks for the advice and the link. I purchased Robert Shaw's book when it was published - before the internet and before flight sim. To be honest I was never able to get through the book. It was a little too technical and I didn't have access to supplementary information we have today.

 

I mistakenly thought of air combat like an air show, where pilots employed certain maneuvers in certain situations. I think Pete Bonnani warned against that in his video that he did for Spectrum Holobyte. Now I know it is more simpler than that.

 

I was thinking that I would take a crack at it again.

[Ironhand]

Is there a preferred way to use your AI wingmen?

 

First the formation: I have ordered them to pincer right. It does nothing. They reply pincer right but don't seem to shoot anyone down. I haven't had much luck with line abreast either. I haven't tried trail. If I put them in trail they could handle the leakers if they were not so stupid.

 

I am using VIACOM 2.0 so I don't know if the issue is technical or a workflow issue. Formations generally work. Radar on and music on also. But can someone tell me the difference between - engage bandits and engage? I am thinking "engage bandits" is engage my bandit and "engage" is more of a weapons free.

Pincer right or whatever just tells them to change formation. You still have to tell them what to engage after that.

 

I've never noticed a simple "Engage" as a command. Not at my computer, so I can't check. But doesn't selecting "Engage" open subsequent menu options: 1) My target (target which is the focus of your sensor), 2) My enemy (the aircraft attacking you), 3) Bandits (attack any bandits within wingman's sensor range), and some other stuff?

[feefifofum]

That's correct Ironhand.

With AI wingmen, if you have a good RADAR picture and time to set up, you can actually direct each individual member of your flight to engage a specific target.

 

Flight -》 engage bandits is the most quick & broad option, each member will pick his own target and attack.

[proletariat23]

nothing more embarrassing than getting out turned by a 15 in a flanker, I killed one a few days ago whom was flying with a 29 i made crash in a climbing spiral kind of abomination I use to coax those who don't study physics into belly deaths.

 

I dived in and caused his bait to chase me with his nose and his rudder, when he got tone, I went from +5 to about +22, continuing my left turn bank about 30, making sure to stay enough off the middle line of his rail, but close enough for him to smell the money-High boy thought I made an easy dinner for his wingmate, but chaff and a roll reversal dipped the missile, I scissored back under to the left, again off the nose to his left, lowering my climb to about +5 again- he is still head up, tunnel vision fishing with the nose. dipping dipping dippin, my airspeed went from about 500 when i dove to about 250 at the end of this turn, just as he locked me up, BOOM, belly into the trees. His wingman, realized the mistake, and is diving, gaining speed. i level my wings and make a tempting bank into him, dipping my right wing. he has something lined up, R-72 off the rail, closing, 5.0 4.0. Turn my X all the way over, Burner, chaff, burner off, airbrake, pull back hard on the stick. Stall. rudder over, burner, second missle off the rail, He is at my low 5, closing fast, his missile is fired way out of the corrections circle, he has too much speed. Check six, his airbrake is deployed, off my 5, I'm continuing my right turn, diving altitude about 2000, check six, cannon past right side of canopy, he is closing fast, too fast still, he throws his flap to full, I can see the flanker straining to slow and get me on his nose, I dip the throttle, roll my X again, all the way over, at the opposite extreme, I crank, back. he overshoots, reacts, he tracks me, Im in burner, I flip her back over and put the nose down. His canopy streaks within inches of my nose. TAP TAP, guns rip threw him. Fire explodes.

 

He's dead. My airspeed dangerously low, the flanker still traveling well too fast for this engagement speeds past, quickly smashes into the deck at around 300 350. Speed goes both ways.

 

now if I could only get my aim120cs to work consistently, I probably wouldn't even need to do that.

[captain_dalan]

Is there a preferred way to use your AI wingmen?

 

First the formation: I have ordered them to pincer right. It does nothing. They reply pincer right but don't seem to shoot anyone down. I haven't had much luck with line abreast either. I haven't tried trail. If I put them in trail they could handle the leakers if they were not so stupid.

 

I am using VIACOM 2.0 so I don't know if the issue is technical or a workflow issue. Formations generally work. Radar on and music on also. But can someone tell me the difference between - engage bandits and engage? I am thinking "engage bandits" is engage my bandit and "engage" is more of a weapons free.

The AI wingmen (as usual in sims) seam to be a very mixed bag. Sometimes they perform well (or even up to par) and sometimes they just launch everything they have, hit nothing and die horribly to a MiG21 or 23. And this is in the same mission, given the same commands at the same time before actually merging.

 

I do however in my very limited experience think that they benefit from being babysitted and microed. If you have a clear picture and enough time try to manually give them them instructions on who to attack. Watch out for their calls. As soon as you hear a splash confirmation, immediately give them new orders or they will most likely die while flying idle. When going into the merge a useful command is the order at least one of them to cover you. Thus he might pick up something you missed (AI seams to have spotless perception at any range, even the 2nm blind zone).

 

For some illustration, here is a VERY amateurish example, of me surviving the F-15 instant action for the first time with the labels off and everything else on max realism. For some reason, the missile labels still stand, dunno why. I recorded this in replay, so there are lots of external shots, otherwise i only fly in F1.

 

 

As for merging with a Flanker, and going BFM, a short cutout:

 

 

Hope it helps a bit....

[Aluminum Donkey]

Shoot it down!

[Aluminum Donkey]

nothing more embarrassing than getting out turned by a 15 in a flanker, I killed one a few days ago whom was flying with a 29 i made crash in a climbing spiral kind of abomination I use to coax those who don't study physics into belly deaths.

 

I dived in and caused his bait to chase me with his nose and his rudder, when he got tone, I went from +5 to about +22, continuing my left turn bank about 30, making sure to stay enough off the middle line of his rail, but close enough for him to smell the money-High boy thought I made an easy dinner for his wingmate, but chaff and a roll reversal dipped the missile, I scissored back under to the left, again off the nose to his left, lowering my climb to about +5 again- he is still head up, tunnel vision fishing with the nose. dipping dipping dippin, my airspeed went from about 500 when i dove to about 250 at the end of this turn, just as he locked me up, BOOM, belly into the trees. His wingman, realized the mistake, and is diving, gaining speed. i level my wings and make a tempting bank into him, dipping my right wing. he has something lined up, R-72 off the rail, closing, 5.0 4.0. Turn my X all the way over, Burner, chaff, burner off, airbrake, pull back hard on the stick. Stall. rudder over, burner, second missle off the rail, He is at my low 5, closing fast, his missile is fired way out of the corrections circle, he has too much speed. Check six, his airbrake is deployed, off my 5, I'm continuing my right turn, diving altitude about 2000, check six, cannon past right side of canopy, he is closing fast, too fast still, he throws his flap to full, I can see the flanker straining to slow and get me on his nose, I dip the throttle, roll my X again, all the way over, at the opposite extreme, I crank, back. he overshoots, reacts, he tracks me, Im in burner, I flip her back over and put the nose down. His canopy streaks within inches of my nose. TAP TAP, guns rip threw him. Fire explodes.

 

He's dead. My airspeed dangerously low, the flanker still traveling well too fast for this engagement speeds past, quickly smashes into the deck at around 300 350. Speed goes both ways.

 

now if I could only get my aim120cs to work consistently, I probably wouldn't even need to do that.

 

Whew! That post was more entertaining than actually flying the sim!

[Frostie]

nothing more embarrassing than getting out turned by a 15 in a flanker

 

Getting out turned by a fully loaded Su25T in an Eagle i'm sure is, there are plenty of merge fails online. Fave tactics against noobs is not really relevant to fave tactics against Flankers. ;)

[proletariat23]

Im just happy to not be totally sucking. I feel like, especially in a move like rolling scissors in a turn fight, I have a huge advantage in VR.

[Xenovia]

Only merge with 75% internal fuel or less. Watch out for off boresight shots. Keep energy high.

 

This

[sea2sky]

Title says it all, write down your preferable tactics below.:)

 

Thanks,

PB8

 

as a flanker pilot I can tell you this - the only thing I want an eagle to do is to merge with me sooner.