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AG ordinance mix


zxrex
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There are only a few mixed loads possible.

 

The Countermeassure pods / Jammers are possible to carry with any weapon type (except for Anti-ship missile ofc due to the Pylon conflict)

as are the Air-Air Aim-9 variants.

 

Bombs can not be mixed with any other weapon type

other then Aim-9s as far as i know.

Same with Rockets pods .

 

Mavericks and RB 05As can only be mixed with Gunpods

(Missiles on the two fuselage pylons and Gunpods on the Inner Wingpylons).

 

I dont think the Anti-ship missiles can be mixed with any other Air-Ground ordnance (though i could always be wrong)

and the same is probably true for the BK 90.

 

So for strike munitions its mostly limited to a single type with the exception being the Gunpods / Air-Ground Missile combo.

 

Someone with access to the Module might be able to correct me but i think that should cover the possible loadouts =P.

 

Guess we will have to see on friday.


Edited by mattebubben
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Mattebubben is correct. In general, you decide on one major weapon system you want to carry and then you can add AIM-9's and/or countermeasures to that. No other mixing is possible, with the gun pods being the only exception - they can be combined with rb 05 and rb 75. Asymmetric loadouts are possible in reality though, like KB pod (flares/chaff) + 1 AIM-9 + 1 or 2 rb 75 is an explicitly allowed combination for example, but I dunno if that's implemented in DCS.

 

One of the main reasons for this limitation is the design of the weapon selector knob, which uses the same position to mean different things with different weapon systems. I don't think they thought when designing it that mixing weapon systems was a particularly common use case, especially not since the aircraft for a large part of its life only had four usable weapon stations.


Edited by renhanxue
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There are only a few mixed loads possible.

 

The Countermeassure pods / Jammers are possible to carry with any weapon type (except for Anti-ship missile ofc due to the Pylon conflict)

as are the Air-Air Aim-9 variants.

 

Bombs can not be mixed with any other weapon type

other then Aim-9s as far as i know.

Same with Rockets pods .

 

Mavericks and RB 05As can only be mixed with Gunpods

(Missiles on the two fuselage pylons and Gunpods on the Inner Wingpylons).

 

I dont think the Anti-ship missiles can be mixed with any other Air-Ground ordnance (though i could always be wrong)

and the same is probably true for the BK 90.

 

So for strike munitions its mostly limited to a single type with the exception being the Gunpods / Air-Ground Missile combo.

 

Someone with access to the Module might be able to correct me but i think that should cover the possible loadouts =P.

 

Guess we will have to see on friday.

 

I hope you are wrong :)

 

have seen some Ppctures in the past:

 

https://stormbirds.wordpress.com/2016/12/16/ajs-37-viggen-coming-to-dcs/comment-page-1/

 

http://www.fz.se/artiklar/nyheter/20161223/ajs-37-viggen-har-fatt-takeoff-clearance-fran-dcs/

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I am glad this topic is brought up, since this is an issue I might catch some flak for. Mattebubben is indeed correct, the only allowed mix is gunpods and Rb75 or Rb05. This has to do not only to the J/A-selector in the cockpit but also a switch on the maintenance panel as shown in Vladinskys link. This is the way it is implemented now, ie the realistic way. I have been wanting to implement additional load-out options (selections on the "Vapenväljare") but havent had the time yet. So on release you will not be able to use a loadout like in the promo material (like Rb04+Rb75 or Bk90+Rb05) but this will be implemented post-release.

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DCS AJS37 HACKERMAN

 

There will always be bugs. If everything is a priority nothing is.

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at the heart of it the viggen is a one pass airplane, you don't want to have to come back for a second run because you packed ordinance that required a different firing solution.

 

get that a-10 loiter mentality out of your head please.

МИР

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I am glad this topic is brought up, since this is an issue I might catch some flak for. Mattebubben is indeed correct, the only allowed mix is gunpods and Rb75 or Rb05. This has to do not only to the J/A-selector in the cockpit but also a switch on the maintenance panel as shown in Vladinskys link. This is the way it is implemented now, ie the realistic way. I have been wanting to implement additional load-out options (selections on the "Vapenväljare") but havent had the time yet. So on release you will not be able to use a loadout like in the promo material (like Rb04+Rb75 or Bk90+Rb05) but this will be implemented post-release.

 

good to hear, thx

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I am glad this topic is brought up, since this is an issue I might catch some flak for. Mattebubben is indeed correct, the only allowed mix is gunpods and Rb75 or Rb05. This has to do not only to the J/A-selector in the cockpit but also a switch on the maintenance panel as shown in Vladinskys link. This is the way it is implemented now, ie the realistic way. I have been wanting to implement additional load-out options (selections on the "Vapenväljare") but havent had the time yet. So on release you will not be able to use a loadout like in the promo material (like Rb04+Rb75 or Bk90+Rb05) but this will be implemented post-release.

 

Would that future type of combination be realistic or atleast plausible (potential considered upgrade/modification etc).

 

And speaking of that BK 90 + RB 05 combo im guessing BK 90 + RB 75 will also be allowed at that point?.

 

While these additional loadouts would be very useful and you guys are completely free do to whatever you feel best with the module im unsure if i will use those types of loadouts if they are not realistic or atleast plausible

but thats mostly because im a history/realism nerd that likes to shoot himself in the foot ^^.

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I am glad this topic is brought up, since this is an issue I might catch some flak for. Mattebubben is indeed correct, the only allowed mix is gunpods and Rb75 or Rb05. This has to do not only to the J/A-selector in the cockpit but also a switch on the maintenance panel as shown in Vladinskys link. This is the way it is implemented now, ie the realistic way. I have been wanting to implement additional load-out options (selections on the "Vapenväljare") but havent had the time yet. So on release you will not be able to use a loadout like in the promo material (like Rb04+Rb75 or Bk90+Rb05) but this will be implemented post-release.

 

So if i understand correctly which i may not, currently its set up for realistic loadouts, and you will be adding not realistic loadouts in the future? If that is the case i vote to maintain the realistic loadouts

Intel 8700k @5ghz, 32gb ram, 1080ti, Rift S

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Would that future type of combination be realistic or atleast plausible (potential considered upgrade/modification etc).

 

And speaking of that BK 90 + RB 05 combo im guessing BK 90 + RB 75 will also be allowed at that point?.

 

While these additional loadouts would be very useful and you guys are completely free do to whatever you feel best with the module im unsure if i will use those types of loadouts if they are not realistic or atleast plausible

but thats mostly because im a history/realism nerd that likes to shoot himself in the foot ^^.

 

I prefer realistic/plausible loadouts. Just a personal preferance. If someone else wants to do something different, no problem. Mission builders/Servers can setup what loadouts are available.

 

Really looking forward to release. One pass and haul ass. Should be fun.

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Mission builders / Servers cant really control the loadouts.

They can set the weapons but not the Weapon mixes people decide to use.

 

For me it will depend to some extent on how plausible the alternative loadouts options where.

 

If they could be used but never where or if there were plans to make them useable that were never completed etc.

 

Since the game is already a alternate scenario already so if for example

there were changes that were planned but never completed due to the decision to retire the Viggen between 1998-2000 that would have allowed to to carry those weapon mixes then i would be more open towards it.

 

But if its a case of simply adding them for gameplay value im probably not gonna use those mixes.

 

Since in the case of the AGM 65B being added its slightly different since while it was not acquired by the Swedish Airforce it should have been completely compatible with the AJ/AJS so if you simply mounted AGM 65Bs on a standard AJ/AJS 37 it would have been able to use them so in that case im okay with that addition (even if i might not use it much).

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Am I reading the beta manual right in that in a clean configuration the AJS-37 carries no guns, countermeasures or ECM? So for example, if you carry 4xRB75 Mavericks on the fuselage and inner wing pylons you have no countermeasures.

 

Do the gunpods have to be used in pairs? Would be nice if you could carry one gunpod and one countermeasures pod on the inner wing pylons, at least you could have some strafing ability and countermeasures along with the 2 air-to-ground weapons in the fuselage pylons.

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Correct.

 

In reality there were no 1 KB pod/1 autocannon pod combinations approved for flight but I don't think there was anything technical stopping you from doing that. The KB pod could be combined with a whole bunch of different things on the opposite pylon so I can't see why the autocannon pod wouldn't be possible. It's certainly not a weight imbalance issue since you can have a loadout with a KB pod on one wing pylon and a rb 04 on the other - the rb 04 is more than double the weight of the KB pod.

 

e: there might be something I don't understand going on behind the scenes though. KB + 1 AIM-9 + 2 rb75 is approved but KB + 3 rb75 is not, and the only autocannon+rb75 loadout that's approved is 2 gun pods + 1 rb 75 + 1 AIM-9, not 2+2 gun pods/rb 75 like you'd expect. Might possibly have something to do with center of mass, I guess? Just speculating though.


Edited by renhanxue
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Correct.

 

In reality there were no 1 KB pod/1 autocannon pod combinations approved for flight but I don't think there was anything technical stopping you from doing that. The KB pod could be combined with a whole bunch of different things on the opposite pylon so I can't see why the autocannon pod wouldn't be possible. It's certainly not a weight imbalance issue since you can have a loadout with a KB pod on one wing pylon and a rb 04 on the other - the rb 04 is more than double the weight of the KB pod.

 

Thanks renhanxue, seems that having countermeasures would have been something a clean AJS-37 would have by default, but oh well :).

 

3xRB75 and a countermeasures pod may be a very popular loadout then (along with the two IR/Sidewinders of course) as I would think having flares/chafe will be a popular option to have going into most target areas that have IR/radar guided SAMs...

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Yeah I dunno why they never bothered giving it countermeasures that didn't occupy a weapon station. The BOL (countermeasures dispenser integrated into an AIM-9 launcher mount) was definitely around at the time of the AJS upgrade and I'm pretty sure the JA 37 could use it.

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Most likely it was a cost / need calculation.

 

They could probably do it without to much trouble but it would cost money and they did not think it needed it for the few more years they intended it to operate as the existing Countermeassure pod was "Good Enough".

 

(And Yes the JA 37 did indeed get the BOL 451 dispensers in the 90s to complement the BOY 401 Flare Dispensers adopted in the late mid-late 80s and both those systems could probably have been adopted to the AJS 37 without to many issues but it was a time period where Cost Saving was one of the most important criteria.)

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Yeah I dunno why they never bothered giving it countermeasures that didn't occupy a weapon station. The BOL (countermeasures dispenser integrated into an AIM-9 launcher mount) was definitely around at the time of the AJS upgrade and I'm pretty sure the JA 37 could use it.

 

That would have been sweet if they could have incorporated this integrated dispenser into the AJS-37, otherwise it basically cuts by 25-50% the air-to-ground ordinance it can carry.

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But then again with low altitude flying and fast attack runs with minimum exposure time it should still be possible to stay safe enough.

 

Since a proper attack run should only expose you for a few seconds before you can get down low and get away from the target area.

 

This is probably harder in DCS then it is in IRL (due to response times)

but should still be doable if one has everything planned out

(Does not waste any time after pop up trying to find the target etc but just pop up line up on target launch weapon and then go evasive).

 

Since with the Attack Viggen Speed and low altitude flying is the primary line of defence.

 

And Giving up 1 maverick out of 4 for a Chaff/flare dispenser if you want the added safety of the Countermeasures does not make a huge difference in the long run.

 

So while sure it would be the best of both worlds having those Countermeasure dispensers that dont take up air-ground pylons but it will probably feel like less of a problem once one starts flying / getting used to the aircraft.

 

And when it comes down to it the Attack Viggen is a 1960s / Early 1970s aircraft and for that timeperiod (and even into the 80s ) the Dedicated Chaff/Flare pods were the rule rather then the exception.

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Also with the type of mission profiles the Viggen did, you wouldn't need more than 1 Maverick anyway. The same with the Rb 05. Unless you make a second attack run (which is a big no-no), you will probably bring the second missile back to base most of the times.

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Also with the type of mission profiles the Viggen did, you wouldn't need more than 1 Maverick anyway. The same with the Rb 05. Unless you make a second attack run (which is a big no-no), you will probably bring the second missile back to base most of the times.

Well you can always Ripple of 2 (or more) Mavericks in a single run.

 

Should not take more then 1-2 sec for each additional missile (selecting the new missile locking on target and launching).

 

So if you start your targeting run from about 14-16 km away from target you should be able to ripple even 3-4 missiles away before you get into the danger zone from AAA etc.

 

That is if you are able to insantly put your nose on the target and dont have to waste time trying to find the target between launches.

But even with a longer delay between launches putting just two missiles on target should be no problem in a single pass unless you pop up at a very short range

(Or are unable to find the target in time).

 

RB 05A would be different ofc as you cant really guide 2 at once.


Edited by mattebubben
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Well you can always Ripple of 2 (or more) Mavericks in a single run.

 

Should not take more then 1-2 sec for each additional missile (selecting the new missile locking on target and launching).

 

So if you start your targeting run from about 14-16 km away from target you should be able to ripple even 3-4 missiles away before you get into the danger zone from AAA etc.

 

That is if you are able to insantly put your nose on the target and dont have to waste time trying to find the target between launches.

 

RB 05A would be different ofc as you cant really guide 2 at once.

 

I doubt that launching multiple Mavericks per attack is something that is done IRL through. Especially with the A-model missile that is range limited by the seeker to about 3 NM. You are basically giving up any stand-off advantage that the missile had to begin with.

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I doubt that launching multiple Mavericks per attack is something that is done IRL through. Especially with the A-model missile that is range limited by the seeker to about 3 NM. You are basically giving up any stand-off advantage that the missile had to begin with.

 

Probably depends on conditions.

If the pilot was able to quickly re-acquire (also depending on threat situation) he might ripple 2 missiles.

 

But on high speed passes against defended targets it might not be done.

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