F14B can carry GBU12 with TGP？

[antagonist]

F14D would be a great follow on module. But I still want the A/B regardless of whether the bombcat would ever get to DCS.

 

I keep thinking back to when games like Tomcat Alley were state of the art. What we are getting now is unbelievable by comparison. I've been trying to get people interested in DCS, and I will probably try to do the same as you, Scorp, by getting a few copies to get people into multicrew with me.

 

From what I've gathered, the differences between the B and D are some systems getting switched from analog to digital, notably the radar.

 

I might be completely wrong about it, but I don't think the D is significantly different from the B. Same engines, same radar, same missiles, just with fewer cathodes and more transistors.

[addde]

From what I've gathered, the differences between the B and D are some systems getting switched from analog to digital, notably the radar.

 

I might be completely wrong about it, but I don't think the D is significantly different from the B. Same engines, same radar, same missiles, just with fewer cathodes and more transistors.

 

New front cockpit with multifunction displays, new rear cockpit with new displays, new AN/APG-71 radar based on the F15E radar, lots of new digital buses, its got a new very much improved HUD, new datalink, built in jammer, IRST + more.

 

So its pretty different.

Really want it tho ^^

[BlackLion213]

New front cockpit with multifunction displays, new rear cockpit with new displays, new AN/APG-71 radar based on the F15E radar....

 

All true, the F-14D is in fact very different from the F-14B. The F-14A and B are essentially identical excluding the new engines and updated RWR (also updated on the F-14A around 1992, along with AFC 731, etc).

 

The avionics in the F-14A (and therefore F-14B) were quite ancient by the early 1980s when the F-14D was under development. As a result, nearly every piece of avionics on the F-14D is new - not just converted to digital, but truly all new systems. Plus, all of the sensors (radar, etc) are new. It also has a completely new cockpit (only the throttle carried over IIRC). Overall, it's a similar transformation to the F-15C to F-15E from an avionics and systems standpoint (F-15E also had some structural changes to increase MTOW and redesigned cannon feed system/gun clip).

 

The airframe, hydraulics, and control system (excluding a new aileron-rudder-interconnect) carried over along with the F110 engines.

 

Really want it tho ^^

 

I do too....it was a mighty beast!

 

 

-Nick

[OnlyforDCS]

Well Im just happy I will have the chance to fly any F14 in DCS. I like the analog systems too. There is a certain charm to them, that seems lacking in the more modern versions. As long as I can fly it and fight in it, Im happy. Ok, so I won't be doing bombing runs in it. Not a big deal, Ill leave that for the Hornet ;)

[Angus]

As a tomcat driver thinks ....

Hornet sucks !!!!!

 

:lol:

 

Flying aboard the tomcat in DCS will be great (dreams comme true), if in the long term you can fly on the super tomcat it is wonderful!

[captain_dalan]

I do too....it was a mighty beast!

 

-Nick

 

Well Im just happy I will have the chance to fly any F14 in DCS. I like the analog systems too. There is a certain charm to them, that seems lacking in the more modern versions. As long as I can fly it and fight in it, Im happy. Ok, so I won't be doing bombing runs in it. Not a big deal, Ill leave that for the Hornet ;)

 

The way i like to say it........ having the F-14D to fly would sure be nice, but having the F-14A around, is a must! :D

[Dino Might]

Well Im just happy I will have the chance to fly any F14 in DCS. I like the analog systems too. There is a certain charm to them, that seems lacking in the more modern versions. As long as I can fly it and fight in it, Im happy. Ok, so I won't be doing bombing runs in it. Not a big deal, Ill leave that for the Hornet ;)

 

I'll be doing bombing runs in mine for sure! Dive tables and a pipper is quite challenging and fun. Does the F14A get CCIP at all? If so, that's just gravy.

[Nascar]

From what I have gathered in this thread is that the TGP will not be modeled on release. Does that mean it wont be able to deliver any bombs at all on the initial release?

[Kev2go]

Well Im just happy I will have the chance to fly any F14 in DCS. I like the analog systems too. There is a certain charm to them, that seems lacking in the more modern versions. As long as I can fly it and fight in it, Im happy. Ok, so I won't be doing bombing runs in it. Not a big deal, Ill leave that for the Hornet ;)

 

its the best of both worlds when you get both glass pit mixed with some analog indicators like in the A10C ;)

 

Similarly the F14D is still not a full glass pit, like the a10C still had a good ammount of analog indicators, the MFD's used for weapons and navigation ( an in the F14D's case Radar display) management.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Kev2go

[addde]

From what I have gathered in this thread is that the TGP will not be modeled on release. Does that mean it wont be able to deliver any bombs at all on the initial release?

 

Both A & B should be able to drop "dumb bombs"

[BlackLion213]

Similarly the F14D is still not a full glass pit, like the a10C still had a good ammount of analog indicators, the MFD's used for weapons and navigation ( an in rthe F14D's case Radar display) management.

 

Well...not quite. The F-14D does have analog gauges in the cockpit, but all are back-up gauges just like in the F/A-18C. In fact, most them are the same back-up gauges as the F/A-18C.

 

I can't find a good online picture of the F-14D cockpit, there are many more photos of F-14As and Bs (more common airframe and a lot of F-14As were flown to museums in the late-90s/early 2000s).

 

This shot is decent:

 

 

Basically, the analog gauges in the upper left are the back-up ADI, compass/TACAN, then small back-up gauges for the altimeter, airspeed indicator, radar altimeter, and vertical velocity indicator. On the Hornet, there are at knee level, but even when located near the glare shield they are not optimal for reading.

 

The F-14D cockpit was created with the HUD as the primary flight instrument, this was a major transition that brought its ergonomics in-line with the other 4th generation fighters.

 

Here is the F/A-18C in contrast:

 

 

Also, most of the navigation functions seen in the Hornet cockpit are located in the RIO cockpit with the F-14.

 

The F-14A (and very closely related F-14A+/B) were the last US fighters created where the HUD was NOT a primary flight instrument. It was a supplement to the ADI and used to aid weapons delivery.

 

Here is the F-14B for contrast:

 

 

Notice the large airspeed indicator, altimeter, compass/TACAN, etc. They are large and placed to facilitate an instrument scan in which the eyes spend most of their time outside the cockpit (as expected when flying a fighter).

 

The HUD in the F-14A/B is very simple and does not display the functions of these primary flight instruments. It really has only a pitch ladder, compass heading, waypoint info, and weapons delivery data.

 

Here is the F-14A HUD (gif) and this one of the more "symbology intensive modes". In cruise mode the pitch ladder is spaced in 30 deg increments and the is no velocity vector.

 

 

Contrast with the F-14D HUD:

 

 

Tons of info, because it is the primary flight instrument.

 

This was the major transition that made the F-14D cockpit a comparable environment to other and newer 4th gen fighters.

 

It is true that the Hornet has more MFDs (though not in total when one considers both crewman - there are two more MFDs for the RIO plus the TID/PTID), but the underlying principles of the cockpit design for the F-14D are essentially the same as the Hornet's and quite different from the preceding F-14A/B. Which is to say that the HUD is the primary instrument and there are programmable MFDs for remaining (largely combat) functions with back-up gauges for when things break.

 

-Nick

[Kev2go]

Well...not quite. The F-14D does have analog gauges in the cockpit, but all are back-up gauges just like in the F/A-18C. In fact, most them are the same back-up gauges as the F/A-18C.

 

 

 

-Nick

 

well that was my point exactly..... I am well aware most of the anlog stuff is for backup, t but the point is these still arent fully Glass pits, Like EF , Rafayale or F35 which have No analog backups and are basically fully digital.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Even the A29 super tucano has a full glass pit

 

 

A10C's analog guages are mostly backup too, with the Fuel indicators, engine Temp and RPM begin the ones that arent displayed on the multifunction displays

 

Similarly you use MFD'S for weapons and navigation etc, and HUD display for Pitch, Speed, and altitude indications over analog indicators. so I really dont see why you need to explain sometihng that i already know when its similar to other 4th generation technology.

 

 

p.s

 

what you posted earlier, thats looks like a F/A18A cockpit. As shown here the F/A18C has a digital fuel indicator over the A model's Analog fuel indicator, with LOT 12 an later having MPCD over HSD display

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by Kev2go

[FWind]

${1}

Edited April 16, 2017 by FWind

[BlackLion213]

well that was my point exactly..... I am well aware most of the anlog stuff is for backup, t but the point is these still arent fully Glass pits, Like EF , Rafayale or F35 which have No analog backups and are basically fully digital.

 

Okey dokey...:)

 

Certainly it is "on a spectrum", but I think that most define a glass cockpit as replacing the primary flight instruments with a digital display. Having an analog instrument in the cockpit does not change this in my mind. But to each his own.

 

https://www.pea.com/blog/posts/whats-a-glass-cockpit/

 

Even the A29 super tucano has a full glass pit

 

Not sure how this is relevant to the discussion?

 

so I really dont see why you need to explain sometihng that i already know when its similar to other 4th generation technology.

 

It was a great opportunity to discuss the conceptual transition between the cockpit of the F-14A/B and F-14D, didn't realize the discussion was harmful. Is it?

 

It wasn't clear that this conceptual transition was something on your mind based on your post. I apologize for explaining, but other people do read things here as well. I don't see the harm in the discussion.

 

-Nick

[Kev2go]

Okey dokey...:)

 

Certainly it is "on a spectrum", but I think that most define a glass cockpit as replacing the primary flight instruments with a digital display. Having an analog instrument in the cockpit does not change this in my mind. But to each his own.

 

https://www.pea.com/blog/posts/whats-a-glass-cockpit/

 

 

-Nick

 

 

ok fair enough

 

 

 

 

It was a great opportunity to discuss the conceptual transition between the cockpit of the F-14A/B and F-14D, didn't realize the discussion was harmful. Is it?

 

 

It wasn't clear that this conceptual transition was something on your mind based on your post. I apologize for explaining, but other people do read things here as well. I don't see the harm in the discussion.

 

-Nick

 

i get the apeal ot the iconic F14A/B , but personally thats one of the reasons i want to also see a F14D at some point, having updated tech in line with other 4th gen fighters from the late 1980s going into the 90s . i do think the last major upgrade of Tomcat (and most capable one) ought to be represented in DCS, assuming there is enough information to recreate it .

 

Besides A F14D would look more in line with sharing a deck with a 2000s F/A18C Hornet in a OIF scenarios circa 2003-2006, than F14A/B represeting ones from the late 1980s . In any case the in its last deployment in the Iraq theatre, it pretty much was acting more as a PGM truck than a Air interceptor/ Fighter.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Kev2go

[addde]

It was a great opportunity to discuss the conceptual transition between the cockpit of the F-14A/B and F-14D, didn't realize the discussion was harmful. Is it?

 

It wasn't clear that this conceptual transition was something on your mind based on your post. I apologize for explaining, but other people do read things here as well. I don't see the harm in the discussion.

 

-Nick

 

Totally agree, no need to apologize. I for one always apreciate more f14 facts and pics!

 

The glass cockpit concept is the same in civil Aviation. For example the B737 NG is considered glass cockpit altho many of the backup instruments can be either analog or digital.

[addde]

i get the apeal ot the iconic F14A/B , but personally thats one of the reasons i want to also see a F14D at some point, having updated tech in line with other 4th gen fighters from the late 1980s going into the 90s . i do think the last major upgrade of Tomcat (and most capable one) ought to be represented in DCS, assuming there is enough information to recreate it .

 

Besides A F14D would look more in line with sharing a deck with a 2000s F/A18C Hornet in a OIF scenarios circa 2003-2006, than F14A/B represeting ones from the late 1980s . In any case the in its last deployment in the Iraq theatre, it pretty much was acting more as a PGM truck than a Air interceptor/ Fighter.

 

You can be as harsh as you like, but judge us based on our past and future actions, rather than your prediction of a future that has not yet come to pass.

 

Yes, you want the LANTIRN. So do we. Realistically? Even with something like a Tomcat; we can't bankrupt ourselves by making the development process unfeasibly long.

Thus, some things are simply added after release or moved to a more applicable product. We've decided to focus on the core F-14 experience first, and possibly (even probably) approach the LANTIRN upgrade in time.

 

We place incredible amounts of emphasis on making sure our products are complete and do not suffer from missing component syndrome.

That much should be clear from our previous releases, which are some of the most content complete shipped for DCS.

I think that will become even more apparent as the Viggen matures and as the F-14 gets released.

 

That said; the LANTIRN upgrade (and in particular, the PTID and associated system upgrades) are a huge undertaking.

We've decided that it's unfeasible for the initial release and have not made a projection beyond that as of yet.

 

Yes; most of the U.S. combat operations involved the LANTIRN, but we're not really simulating the OEF and OIF. We're simulating a cold war gone hot situation where the Tomcat was in its' A2A element.

The Tomcat, like it or not, was primarily a fleet defence interceptor.

 

You can say we blew chances all you like; but you also have little idea how our roadmap looks beyond the F-14 Tomcat.

We're a team of firsts: First full fidelity DCS fast mover, first ground mapping and targeting radar, first multicrewed combat jet, first AI crewmember, and a few more firsts that have not been announced yet.

I'm sure we'll get to this missed first, at one point or another.

 

If you delegate our words to PR bullshit; you most certainly have not made a comparison of what we've promised to deliver with our products and what has been shipped.

I have already said that the F-14A & B is not the end of our Tomcat journey. Whether that is a -D or a B+ PTID/LANTIRN/Whatever upgrade of some kind remains to be seen.

 

Obviously where the investment of time and effort for us is very high, we'll need to look at appropriate compensation, but we don't have a propensity to monetise content after a micro-transaction style.

Again, with all of the stuff coming for the Viggen and the F-14 (The Forrestal alone has cost us $30.000 in development costs alone to date) -- that much should be clear. (I hope!)

 

Obviously, all of this is aside to basic A2G capability which is a given (even if not really operationally relevant).

 

F14D far from impossible ;)

[turkeydriver]

FWIW, the F-14A carried and released guided bombs prior to the Lantirn upgrade over Bosnia. F/A-18Cs lased the target and 2 VF-41 jets dropped either GBU-10 or GBU-16 on an ammo-depot. These jets were unmodded other than the modified Phoenix pallets.

[pyromaniac4002]

Awful lot of bellyaching here.. If you weren't going to buy the F-14A/B module for its air-to-air capability, you didn't deserve it to begin with. Anything on top of Sidewinders, Sparrows, Phoenixes, and guns is just gravy. Given the historical employment of F-14s throughout the reign of the A and B models, expecting a full LANTIRN model is very far-fetched unless HB specifically promised it, which they didn't.

[Kev2go]

Awful lot of bellyaching here.. If you weren't going to buy the F-14A/B module for its air-to-air capability, you didn't deserve it to begin with. Anything on top of Sidewinders, Sparrows, Phoenixes, and guns is just gravy. Given the historical employment of F-14s throughout the reign of the A and B models, expecting a full LANTIRN model is very far-fetched unless HB specifically promised it, which they didn't.

 

OFc we know F14 is going to be a2a first and foremost, except the A and B models are gonna feel like dinosaurs flying along with a F/A18C with aim9x and JMHCS, and aim120C ( hornet still pretty good a2a platform even for those with less interest in A2G) , however im sure for the straight of hormuz map itl be an interesting matchup to have F14A's flown under the Iranian flag alongside, F5's & Mig29's facing off against a carrier group and Hornets.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Kev2go

[BlackLion213]

the A and B models are gonna feel like dinosaurs flying along with a F/A18C with aim9x and JMHCS, and aim120C ( hornet still pretty good a2a platform even for those with less interest in A2G)

 

You're right, not much that can be done about that. The F-14A/B did have ancient avionics, even when they were operating in combat as late as 2005. It is a Dinosaur compared to the Hornet and F-15C...of course a Dinosaur could still eat you. :D

 

Even the F-14D wouldn't have the AIM-9X or JMHCS, but it would be a big step up in avionics and RADAR capability.

 

-Nick

[captain_dalan]

FWIW, the F-14A carried and released guided bombs prior to the Lantirn upgrade over Bosnia. F/A-18Cs lased the target and 2 VF-41 jets dropped either GBU-10 or GBU-16 on an ammo-depot. These jets were unmodded other than the modified Phoenix pallets.

 

Have the devs mentioned if buddy lasing will be implemented? That would certainly be a fun feature for all the mud movers out there.....

 

OFc we know F14 is going to be a2a first and foremost, except the A and B models are gonna feel like dinosaurs flying along with a F/A18C with aim9x and JMHCS, and aim120C ( hornet still pretty good a2a platform even for those with less interest in A2G) , however im sure for the straight of hormuz map itl be an interesting matchup to have F14A's flown under the Iranian flag alongside, F5's & Mig29's facing off against a carrier group and Hornets.

 

That would easily be remedied by restricting ordnance availability for different missions/campaigns. Without 9x, the Hornets can find them selves in quite the heap of trouble against some 4th gen fighters with superior energy retention capability.

 

You're right, not much that can be done about that. The F-14A/B did have ancient avionics, even when they were operating in combat as late as 2005. It is a Dinosaur compared to the Hornet and F-15C...of course a Dinosaur could still eat you.

 

Even the F-14D wouldn't have the AIM-9X or JMHCS, but it would be a big step up in avionics and RADAR capability.

 

-Nick

 

Seeing how the D was never used as an AS platform to begin with (well practically never), i don't see how its presence will make any difference in the fleet as far as air to air is at stake. The Bugs will do all the fighter missions in the late 90's, early 2000's environment.

Edited April 16, 2017 by captain_dalan

[Kev2go]

Have the devs mentioned if buddy lasing will be implemented? That would certainly be a fun feature for all the mud movers out there.....

 

 

 

That would easily be remedied by restricting ordnance availability for different missions/campaigns. Without 9x, the Hornets can find them selves in quite the heap of trouble against some 4th gen fighters with superior energy retention capability.

 

 

 

Seeing how the D was never used as an AS platform to begin with (well practically never), i don't see how its presence will make any difference in the fleet as far as air to air is at stake. The Bugs will do all the fighter missions in the late 90's, early 2000's environment.

 

yea but its just some of the electronics that make the F18C more modern fighter. , like MFD's and a more advanced navigation/ mapping suite in the bottom MPCD ( including Link 16 capability)

 

plus id say having an Amram is still advantageous

 

 

 

Seeing how the D was never used as an AS platform to begin with (well practically never), i don't see how its presence will make any difference in the fleet as far as air to air is at stake. The Bugs will do all the fighter missions in the late 90's, early 2000's environment.

 

 

having MFD's and a more modern radar would make a difference. and having A/G mapping is def a bonus. having F14 become a relatively modern "multrole" strike A/C with the D model( its the capability that matter , not as much as historical use, which in actuality it did get put to use deployments in OIF, which included dropping LGBs and JDAMS) almost like the F15E would be very rad. truth be told unless US navy gets a SH ( which still doesn't quite match the combat radius of the F14) wont have any aircraft that will posses long loiter and or long range strike capabilities.

 

These technologies would make it feel more in line with 90's + aircraft.

 

The F14A will feel good as a Iran Opforce jet, and F14A and B's flown in cold war scnearios will feel more at home when we get more Legacy Platforms for the carrier fleets like A7's and/ or A6's perhaps

 

 

just my 2 cents, not that i wont buy an F14A/B, jsut because its older technology or if it lacks strike capacity. when mig21 was still a "orphan" aircraft without competition from 3rd generation, I still bought for the singleplay experience and because of Historical significance of such an iconic bird.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Kev2go

[captain_dalan]

yea but its just some of the electronics that make the F18C more modern fighter. , like MFD's and a more advanced navigation/ mapping suite in the bottom MPCD ( including Link 16 capability)

 

No doubt about it. I just don't see the Hornet as a dedicated AS platform. The F-14s (even the A's), would still do a better job in air to air, yes even with:

 

plus id say having an Amram is still advantageous

 

Even though the AMRAAM is the more advanced missile (compared to either the 54 or the 7), just having a more powerful radar and more energy to play (not to mention endurance) is more then enough to give the A/B Cats something to play with.

 

 

having MFD's and a more modern radar would make a difference. and having A/G mapping is def a bonus. having F14 become a relatively modern "multrole" strike A/C with the D model( its the capability that matter , not as much as historical use, which in actuality it did get put to use deployments in OIF, which included dropping LGBs and JDAMS) almost like the F15E would be very rad. truth be told unless US navy gets a SH ( which still doesn't quite match the combat radius of the F14) wont have any aircraft that will posses long loiter and or long range strike capabilities.

 

I was about to mention the A-6 as the really long legs we'll need to make the carrier air wing truly complete, but you mentioned it yourself! :thumbup:

 

 

just my 2 cents, not that i wont buy an F14A/B, jsut because its older technology or if it lacks strike capacity. when mig21 was still a "orphan" aircraft without competition from 3rd generation, I still bought for the singleplay experience and because of Historical significance of such an iconic bird.

Now that you mentioned the 21, what i really got the cravings for is a good rugged F-4.....B, N or J if i may :pilotfly:

[Kev2go]

No doubt about it. I just don't see the Hornet as a dedicated AS platform. The F-14s (even the A's), would still do a better job in air to air, yes even with:

 

 

 

Even though the AMRAAM is the more advanced missile (compared to either the 54 or the 7), just having a more powerful radar and more energy to play (not to mention endurance) is more then enough to give the A/B Cats something to play with.

 

 

 

not disagreeing with E advantage, and Raw radar range, except IFF capabilities of A/B tomcat were somewhat lacking from something from the 4th generation, even F15C's of gulf war vintage were given air superiority precedence for coalition forces over navies tomcats. Raw radar range is not everything, especially where unlike an F15, the F14 pilot is reliant on RIO, and with weaker IFF capabilities will be more reliant on getting visual confirmation.

 

 

 

 

was about to mention the A-6 as the really long legs we'll need to make the carrier air wing truly complete, but you mentioned it yourself! :thumbup:

 

 

 

except A6 intruder is just a subsonic attack jet , not a multi role Fighter jet ( cant self escort or conduct a2a like the Hornet) .. , It cant compete too well in a contested A2A environment unless baby sat by escorts while the Hornet can. it too is archaic tech for 1990's +. Its something thatl be nice to have for 60s, 70s, and even into 80s ( depending on the variations). but by 1990 + many of its functions ( minus range perhaps ) can be filled by the Hornet. besides by later half 1990s the A6 and A7 are retired. after all that was the point to have a new multirole jet design to replace the A6 & a7 and simplifying deck logistics by having less aircraft types to support in the process.

 

So no A6 is what USN needs for legacy era but not quite for modern era. where either a Super Hornet would better augment A Hornet Fleet, by offering better range, and in part multirole strike supplemented by the F14D

 

In that regard even the av8B HArrier has much better a2a potential just for self defense than the A6, despite subsonic speed limitation it can still accelerate and climb well, and its very nimble, and later iteration have an/apg 65 radar plus aim120.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Kev2go