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2.0.5 changed LoD?


Ala12Rv-watermanpc
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Since last update to 2.0.5 I noticed that the game looked considerably worse than before.

 

After a while testing, it seems that the way the LoD worked has been changed, I mean, before it was somewhat linked to the zoom of the camera so as you zoomed the objects got loaded so the more zoom you made, the more objects where loaded in that direction which resulted in very detailed zoom views, something I really LOVED in DCS as I have probably never played a game with such a behaviour when zooming and its in fact a good thing for a flight sim.

 

For some reason, it looks like they changed this and now LoD is linked to a fixed "radius" around the plane which wont be changed when zooming...this result into a dramatically lower quality zoom view (basically empty landscape) :(

 

But also, it looks like they decreased considerably the objects render distance specially for trees (now they are just missing at distances they were rendered before) as well as the trees themselves and trees shadows look way worse than before (like pixelated, look screens). Also, all vegetation shimmers a lot more than before. All settings maxed out, and tried reseting them to avoid any kind of problem with the previous version.

 

Here are some screens:

 

2.0.4:

 

1486211272-dcs-2016-12-12-17-37-57-97.jpg

 

1486228867-dcs-2017-01-05-18-49-53-20.jpg

 

 

2.0.5:

 

1486210976-dcs-2017-02-04-13-02-25-31.jpg

 

1486228835-dcs-2017-02-04-18-18-26-56.jpg

 

1486211504-dcs-2017-02-04-12-57-40-45.jpg

 

1486211659-dcs-2017-02-04-13-06-30-02.jpg

 

1486211738-dcs-2017-02-04-12-58-11-03.jpg

 

 

I dont think this could be a problem of my installation but I would like to know if you are experiencing the same...hope it to be a temporal issue or something they are changing for 2.5 but Im a bit afraid they change the way the zoom increased detail at distance, even more when not only the game is NOT running any better than before but its running a bit worse in fact (I see little more GPU usage to maintain a bit lower FPS :doh:) so it doesnt look like a performance decision.


Edited by watermanpc

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Glad to hear Im not the only one but sad at the same time because lately, every patch has make NTTR to look worse and worse :cry: to the point it looks really bad right now (also due to this: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=177641&page=4 )

 

I know they are working on 2.5 but the problem is we will have to live with this a long time yet so I dont want to fly 6 more months with the terrain looking like that :(...and even running at lower fps!


Edited by watermanpc

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  • ED Team

It is an alpha build guys, ED will change and tweak things from time to time as features are added to find balance for when it is released.

 

I would expect to see more changes in the future based on data and feedback from everyone.

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Looks like the grass is gone too.

A scaleable option ED? to keep everyone happy.

Mission editor loading is much improved and very welcome too.

 

I noticed the LoD changes as poster but also the opposite when down low in a helo over Vegas center.

Looks more dense to me which has hit my FPS...1080gtx at 4k.Dips into the mid 40s.

Still missing the mountain details mask making terrain look lower quality.

 

Also shoreline is too bright and shimmers at distance.


Edited by aceviper
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I'm sorry to say this but from reading this post it is very clear another underwhelming release with 2.05.

 

Furthermore, I think those that have paid full price for Nevada deserve better and it is just getting frustrating at this stage.

 

I can't say I am a happy customer at the moment, alpha for how long, another year?

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Settings are maxed out as I said in the first post and I highly doubt it has anything to do with the preload radious (which is maxed out also btw).

 

Now, objects are not being loaded as you zoom the camera, thats a fact so they changed this.

 

BIGNEWY, I understand what you said, really, but the thing is that sadly, last patches are making NTTR to look worse and thats not what I would expect when "changing" things or fine tuning the map, it should be the oposite isnt it??

 

Maybe the map will look astonishing in 2.5 and I wouldnt mind to wait a few weeks to see that but time matters and if I have to fly many months with several downgrades and less performance it might be a problem imho.

 

aceviper, will check what you said later and see how it looks and run...


Edited by watermanpc

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  • ED Team

Continue with your feedback, ED are listening.

 

Personally I have not noticed a performance drop.

 

I assume you have all tried fresh saved games folders with this new build?

 

If not rename your saved games DCS.OpenAlpha folder ( keep it as a backup for now )

 

restart DCS and redo your settings, and copy your input folder from the backup and test.

 

Do you see a difference? I would be interested to hear.

 

I speak with members of the ED team regular, and I do pass your concerns and comments to them, they also read here aswell.

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I'm sorry to say this but from reading this post it is very clear another underwhelming release with 2.05.

 

It seems that most of the 'updates' these days are merely to accommodate the myriad of new 3rd party aircraft, not really to significantly improve the simulator's foundation. The foundation is what matters most: The foundation being things like - the environment, maps, global effects, overall performance, etc. etc.

 

Maybe the silence from Wags and Co. is because the U.S. Airforce and/or Navy have employed ED to do some sort of military sim contract work that is classified, eating up the head developers' time, and not allowing them to talk about why. :-) Either way, we're rooting for you fellas, even in the silence. :thumbup:

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Continue with your feedback, ED are listening.

 

Personally I have not noticed a performance drop.

 

I assume you have all tried fresh saved games folders with this new build?

 

If not rename your saved games DCS.OpenAlpha folder ( keep it as a backup for now )

 

restart DCS and redo your settings, and copy your input folder from the backup and test.

 

Do you see a difference? I would be interested to hear.

 

I speak with members of the ED team regular, and I do pass your concerns and comments to them, they also read here aswell.

 

I have just done what you sugested and performance is the same as before with my old save games folder running. Anyway, I just talked about performance due to the fact that I cant see the huge performance increase I think we should be getting after such a BIG downgrade in graphics and whats more, now, when flying low, I would say it runs a bit worse than before, but I could be mistaken.

 

About the LoD thing, I have to agree with other pals in the thread, NTTR was very promising at first, and I purchased it with the intention of see it getting better and better with the time but the reality is that after more than a year later, patch after patch, the map not only doesnt look better but incredibly enough it looks worse :(

 

I understand that this is an alpha work, and thus, its a WIP but I also understand that things should get BETTER with the time and not worse like the case of NTTR. Even if 2.5 looks much better, the fact looking at the screens, is that right now it looks worse and I cant find a reason to release something that decreases the quality of the product.

 

One thing I loved in DCS is the extreme high range visibility and loading of objects (even more with zooming) but seems like this is not the case any more because it doesnt looks like a bug or something like that but an obvious deliberate change.

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It seems that most of the 'updates' these days are merely to accommodate the myriad of new 3rd party aircraft, not really to significantly improve the simulator's foundation. The foundation is what matters most: The foundation being things like - the environment, maps, global effects, overall performance, etc. etc.

 

Maybe the silence from Wags and Co. is because the U.S. Airforce and/or Navy have employed ED to do some sort of military sim contract work that is classified, eating up the head developers' time, and not allowing them to talk about why. :-) Either way, we're rooting for you fellas, even in the silence. :thumbup:

 

Yes it can be very frustrating at times in the cutting edge high tech flight sim niche, especially in the combat sim side of things to keep moving forward and stay profitable this day and age.

ED and 3rd parties should do whatever it takes to stay profitable in this niche we all enjoy and be able to keep moving forward.

 

 

So, what's in store for 2017....

Well for me it will be a busy time developing our military projects, securing more military work for the year and those beyond, demonstrating our capabilities within DCS and of course showcasing DCS itself which is second-to-none when it comes to military simulators and the capabilities of the simulator that we all love flying or even driving in.

DCS itself has come on leaps and bounds with the latest installments and we can't wait to develop systems and functionality for what is yet to come <no spoilers>.

 

You will see vast improvements in technology for DCS; VR being a classic example of this and we are excited to announce some partnerships early in the New Year, so keep an eye out for announcements!!

 

I'll leave the consumer side of things to Pete in his text below and just want to assure you that we are working as diligently and as fast as possible to get new DCS products out to you whilst keeping the DCS quality mantra high.

You will see some vast improvements to Hawk (2.0 we are calling it internally) and you will already see these achievements in P-40 and our future products for next year and beyond.

 

Read the full post here

 

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i propose ED front end their alpha and beta downloads with a short quiz that purchasers must pass with a score of 100% in order to initiate the download. Using multiple choice, purchasers would have to demonstrate a concrete understanding of what alpha and beta builds represent in terms of a development schedule and release candidacy. It could go a long way to deflating and mitigating forum panic.

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I do understand the frustration here in the waiting tho, it's just some I believe don't quite understand the level of tech involved here that was created by ED.

 

Just look at just the A-10C and compare this sim to the best aircraft on the sim market. You're not able to, there is no sim on the market that has all the system(s) or the flight model that good, not even close and that's not even including all the weapons systems here. This to applies to all the aircraft in DCS, they are all simulators themselves in the time it takes to build.

 

Imagine for a second that ED went and made some modules for the other civvy sim market. I believe that would scare the crap out of the top players in that market. ED never would because they have their own sim world to worry about and are very passionate about.

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I do understand the frustration here in the waiting tho, it's just some I believe don't quite understand the level of tech involved here that was created by ED.

 

Just look at just the A-10C and compare this sim to the best aircraft on the sim market. You're not able to, there is no sim on the market that has all the system(s) or the flight model that good, not even close and that's not even including all the weapons systems here. This to applies to all the aircraft in DCS, they are all simulators themselves in the time it takes to build.

 

Imagine for a second that ED went and made some modules for the other civvy sim market. I believe that would scare the crap out of the top players in that market. ED never would because they have their own sim world to worry about and are very passionate about.

 

Doesn't justify the basic principle. I bought a product and it has been in Alpha for a long time, I want to enjoy the visuals, have a solid performance and not a downgraded engine from this time last year. It frankly annoys me that 1.5 is still in service, that there is two independent installers and the base game that being the maps and sound are not up to scratch. That is the problem here, frankly speaking and as a dedicated consumer of ED's products the reasons and possible excuses for why they may or not be busy is of no concern to me. I paid to play not to test and wait on downgraded releases with improvements that have ultimately fell short of what makes a great game, sound and visuals, they have nailed the gameplay but that is a given and massive kudos but the other two departments don't seem to be being addressed with the updates whatsoever. There has been no info on ATC and comms and no feedback on the actual state of the releases, updates and overall situation. The community is niche and deserves more communication, not marketing material and minor updates, thats what it feels like right now, small minor updates that steer away from the base product, audio, visual, gameplay.

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Hi David OC I agree with you,

all other sims in the market look like bad arcade

games compared with DCS.. And I have tested them all...

 

But what can I say.. also Dav IRL has a very valid point there...

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It is an alpha build guys, ED will change and tweak things from time to time as features are added to find balance for when it is released.

 

I would expect to see more changes in the future based on data and feedback from everyone.

 

 

Exactly what I said to myself as soon as I got on the map. I assume that a lot of this stuff will go on during all of the transitions from 2. to 2.5.

In my years with DCS, there have been countless things like this come and go. So I just go with the flow of it.

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Doesn't justify the basic principle. I bought a product and it has been in Alpha for a long time, I want to enjoy the visuals, have a solid performance and not a downgraded engine from this time last year. It frankly annoys me that 1.5 is still in service, that there is two independent installers and the base game that being the maps and sound are not up to scratch. That is the problem here, frankly speaking and as a dedicated consumer of ED's products the reasons and possible excuses for why they may or not be busy is of no concern to me. I paid to play not to test and wait on downgraded releases with improvements that have ultimately fell short of what makes a great game, sound and visuals, they have nailed the gameplay but that is a given and massive kudos but the other two departments don't seem to be being addressed with the updates whatsoever. There has been no info on ATC and comms and no feedback on the actual state of the releases, updates and overall situation. The community is niche and deserves more communication, not marketing material and minor updates, thats what it feels like right now, small minor updates that steer away from the base product, audio, visual, gameplay.

 

 

Yes, I get the frustration. However, do you read the "Terms and Conditions" when you make the purchase? It states that ED has the rights to the product and that you are obligated to accept any and all modifications and the potential problems that they may present. And that you are technically not purchasing anything from them, but the rights to use their software. The very nature of the beast is that it is an ever evolving and changing entity. The agreement that we all check off on with every module that we purchase is quite clear on this point. Unfortunately, people don't read it and think their purchase can be compared to buying a DVD player from Walmart.

If you think ED is bad about it, go fly any of the other countless sims out there claiming that they're the best. I have flown them all and IMO, DCS is by far the most superior in every way. Most of the "Sim" companies out there settle for mediocre scenery and flight model. And their customers can't do a thing about it.

Give it some time......it'll all get taken care of. It always does.


Edited by Zimmerdylan
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There are a lot of comments regarding updates that are negative and are certainly valid. I concur with the feedback so far. I also agree that the focus of improvements should be on the core product, I am one that simply does not understand why an update would be released if it performs subpar compared to the previous release? I don't think any of us want degradation in an upgrade, I think we would rather see improvement. Yes, work in progress I get it, so why provide an update that looks worse than before? I would rather wait for an update with improvements longer than one in short time that does not improve on the previous version,,, just my 2 cents.

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I agree with OP, also noticed a weird way of how the buildings appear now. The are scaling up!

 

 

WOW!, thanks for the video, really weird what buildings are doing :huh: ...I understand this is a WIP, dont know how many times I have to tell this :doh: but, WHY release this????:huh: ...now we have to play next 3/6/9/etc. months like that?? or even worse, forever??:( ...I think we should ALWAYS get things BETTER not worse, no matter how much they "change" things... thats all I can say.

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@ Bignewy (since you are actively moderating this thread)

 

We are an interested crowd and like to have the feeling we remotely take part by sharing our experience. That's the joy and adventure of a public alpha/beta (in this case NTTR).

 

It is nice to get a reaction every once in a while or some motivation why the NTTR map changes when it does. Obviously some LOD adjustments are in development, every week a new thread pops up about it and stays unanswered. And after a while it gets blurred by aspecific performance issues or non related chitchat. Then a week later a new thread pops up.

 

To be specific 2 questions.

1. Will the texture level of the NTTR terrain return to its original higher quality?

attachment.php?attachmentid=152876&d=1480943401

 

 

2. Is anything changed with the ingame visibility range setting?

 

 

 

 

Thanks.


Edited by piXel496
Or do I have to make a new thread next week ;)
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well, you don't have to play with that version, i mean it's alpha and lots of things are WIP. Also ED could have done a closed alpha, so you wouldn't be able to play this version until release...

 

And here we go again, and again, and again...:yawn:

 

Whats the purpose of an alpha then?...or even better, the purpose of an alpha which they didnt hesitate to take my money for? I remember you this is NOT a free alpha pal, so I think I should have the freedom to say what I dont like and/or could even be a bug...seriously guys, dont know why is that so hard to understand for some of you???:huh:

 

Hope Bignewy could be able to tell us some info regarding all this...

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