Jump to content

Burning Skies Stats aka the Caucasus Turkey Shoot ;)


Krupi

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 133
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Complains, complains and what else? Another complains, likewise other sim (or sim-wise) forums are full of. I would bring something spicy to this discussion. Reading other threads here I found complains about online team work. Someone really thought and tried to prove that online team work using TS is not honest as it prevents to unveil individual pilot's skills. They plan their attack, get all the time connected, cover and warn each other, etc. and by this they almost eliminate possibility to act against them individually. It was proposed to ban those ones who plays in team as it limits individuals and hence they could leave (or leave) DCS online for something else what finally impacts number of online playes. This sounds weird to me but this is what was said there. I believe DCS is a very capable world to choose - find - act like your individuality requires despite of it certainly has issues (there is nothing perfect in our world and as to me this is good :)).

 

So you want to ban teamwork? Why does the server have an official TS then? That's a ridiculous suggestion if I've ever heard one... :megalol:

9./JG27

 

"If you can't hit anything, it's because you suck. If you get shot down, it's because you suck. You and me, we know we suck, and that makes it ok." - Worst person in all of DCS

 

"In the end, which will never come, we will all be satisifed... we must fight them on forum, we will fight them on reddit..." - Dunravin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Complains, complains and what else? Another complains, likewise other sim (or sim-wise) forums are full of. I would bring something spicy to this discussion. Reading other threads here I found complains about online team work. Someone really thought and tried to prove that online team work using TS is not honest as it prevents to unveil individual pilot's skills. They plan their attack, get all the time connected, cover and warn each other, etc. and by this they almost eliminate possibility to act against them individually. It was proposed to ban those ones who plays in team as it limits individuals and hence they could leave (or leave) DCS online for something else what finally impacts number of online playes. This sounds weird to me but this is what was said there. I believe DCS is a very capable world to choose - find - act like your individuality requires despite of it certainly has issues (there is nothing perfect in our world and as to me this is good :)).

 

yeah banning teamwork thats the solution, but i guess its ok if you guys are on the official burning skies ts server?

 

if you discuss banning people who fly in teams, then why dont make a duel server, if you are so keen to look for the individual skill?

 

and by your logic, banning teamwork is supposed to attract new players? interesting stuff...:doh:

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think he was only referencing something he read, personally without teamwork it would just be quake wars with lone wolfers... Not for me.

 

I really enjoy the teamwork side of it personally, I think that is what keeps me coming back to ww2 simming online. My most favourite online experience was being part of a rolling campaign in the old il2 when I was flying for JG52 (Scorched earth was it?) also inter squad tournaments which were great fun.

 

You could not run these events without TS :D

 

My ideal future for DCS WWIi would be massive rolling online campaigns :pilotfly:


Edited by Krupi

Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit

Project IX Cockpit

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think he was only referencing something he read, personally without teamwork it would just be quake wars with lone wolfers... Not for me.

 

I really enjoy the teamwork side of it personally, I think that is what keeps me coming back to ww2 simming online. My most favourite online experience was being part of a rolling campaign in the old il2 when I was flying for JG52 (Scorched earth was it?) also inter squad tournaments which were great fun.

 

You could not run these events without TS :D

 

My ideal future for DCS WWIi would be massive rolling online campaigns :pilotfly:

 

Ghost Skies was some of the most fun I'd ever had in IL2. Teaming up on TS with the regulars on Greater Green, Spits vs 109s, etc was incredibly entertaining, but the intensity of Ghost Skies was amazing.

 

I'd love for anything similar to return to DCS.

PC - 3900X - Asus Crosshair Hero VIII - NZXT Kraken 63 - 32 GB RAM - 2080ti - SB X-Fi Titanium PCIe - Alienware UW - Windows 10

 

Sim hardware - Warthog throttle - VKB Gunfighter III - CH Quadrant - Slaw Device Pedals - Obutto R3volution pit - HP Reverb G2 - 2X AuraSound shakers

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You have missed the point Otto, the speed from MW50 is only relevant when you are in a bad spot , obviously when you are dogfighting you will be reducing throttle.

 

I would be really impressed if you knew the point you're trying to make .

 

- First you say "oh we should get spitfire boost 25 lbs and p51 boost .And now you're saying boost is irrelevant" . :lol:

 

- And one 109 Vs 2 p51's is not a bad spot ?Secondly if you don't get in bad spots often that's called being tactically smart ,flying combat missions with professionalism.

 

- You said a G14 would be easier to defeat.But K4 without mw50 has less performance than a G14 that has mw50 as standard by the way.

 

I thing it would be smart for me not to continue this illogical conversation.


Edited by otto
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would be really impressed if you knew the point you're trying to make .

 

Okay let me try and explain it like I am talking to a child.

 

- First you say "oh we should get spitfire boost 25 lbs and p51 boost .And now you're saying boost is irrelevant" . :lol:

 

I never said that, you are attempting badly to put words in my mouth...

 

What I said was when fighting in the 109 of course you are not always going to running at full throttle, you need to slow down to turn etc...

 

What I was talking about was how frustrating it is when you finally get in a good position on a 109 only to see him gun the throttle and fly away.

 

Do you understand now?

 

- And one 109 Vs 2 p51's is not a bad spot ?Secondly if you don't get in bad spots often that's called being tactically smart ,flying combat missions with professionalism.

 

Not sure what point you are making here. I am talking about what I see online and have experienced flying a 109. Compared to all other aircraft it feels like you are unstoppable, unless you are fighting against a well piloted P-51 you don't have much to be worried about. If you do come across one you can just climb away.

 

- You said a G14 would be easier to defeat.But K4 without mw50 has less performance than a G14 that has mw50 as standard by the way.

 

It was my understanding that the G14 is slower than the K4, which is perhaps not the case under certain scenarios however I am not a 109 expert ;)

 

I thing it would be smart for me not to continue this illogical conversation.

Probably for the best, save yourself some embarrassment.


Edited by Krupi

Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit

Project IX Cockpit

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The G-14 question is already done to the death. It would be like 15 kph slower than the DCS K, which is hardly significant, especially as in practical speed terms it would accelerate probably just as well (548 HP/t vs 550 HP/t) - and would turn, climb better, with a long range 20 mm. Up to about 5000 meters its arguably better than the K-4, the latter's primary strength is that is a high altitude fighter.

 

Details and performance curves here. https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=173645


Edited by Kurfürst

http://www.kurfurst.org - The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site

 

Vezérünk a bátorság, Kísérőnk a szerencse!

-Motto of the RHAF 101st 'Puma' Home Air Defense Fighter Regiment

The Answer to the Ultimate Question of the K-4, the Universe, and Everything: Powerloading 550 HP / ton, 1593 having been made up to 31th March 1945, 314 K-4s were being operated in frontline service on 31 January 1945.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So a difference of ~15mph between the IX and G14 compared to ~25/30mph between the IX and K4... Is irrelevant...

 

Regarding the 30mm you guys are kidding yourselves if you don't think this is an exceptional weapon yes it has less ammo, yes it drops however the damage it can deal put weights these negatives. I think it will only become more impressive with the new damage model as well, so yes please bring forth the 20mm 109.

Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit

Project IX Cockpit

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The G-14 question is already done to the death. It would be like 15 kph slower than the DCS K, which is hardly significant, especially as in practical speed terms it would accelerate probably just as well (548 HP/t vs 550 HP/t) - and would turn, climb better, with a long range 20 mm. Up to about 5000 meters its arguably better than the K-4, the latter's primary strength is that is a high altitude fighter.

 

Details and performance curves here. https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=173645

 

Well, to me 15kph is not that "hardly significant". For a mustang would mean that the pony would be able to disengage. The difference in manoeuvrability wouldn't be that important as a mustang shouldn't get involved in close dogfight with a 109 in any case

For the spit would hardly change much. 15kph on your side is always welcome. Obviously a lighter 109 would be more tricky to dogfight with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, the Pony won't be able to disengage, because it would be shot down well before it gains enough speed and distance.

 

The problem is that you are only looking at top speeds. It takes minutes to accelerate to that top speed, meaning that for much of the time in level flight, the plane with the better acceleration may be well actually travelling faster until its gets slowly overtaken near to the top of the speed envelope. And if they try to reach it dive, the guy who levels out first when trying to extend always looses, the other guy can just keep on diving or cut into his path and get a gun solution.

 

And all that time you will be in guns range. 15 kph difference is like 4 m/sec which means just to extend the range by 400 meter to a safer distance the other guy has 1,5 minute to shoot at your plane. And any decent shot doesn't need more than like 10 secs.

 

Anything under 40-50 km/h speed difference isn't making a perceivable difference in my book. 10-20 km/h is basically nothing, its good to drool over in the specs sheet but nothing else. It doesn't make a difference fast enough and thus cannot be relied upon.

 

But, by all means, wish for a G-14, its your funeral after all. I'd love to see one, pity its not going to happen because in all likelyhood, nobody will model one just because two or three guys keep compaining about it on the board.

 

Not that we didn't have such a 'slow' plane when the K-4's speed was bugged. I recall the whining was just as loud even when it was no faster than a G-14... in any case, getting a G-14 would practically doom the IX. Its still some 40 km/h faster than the IX, the only thing that will change is that the IX probably loose its only ace, as it likely not able to even outturn the G-14 while it will be still outrun and out-climbed.

 

I will never get my head around why some people keep complaining about the K-4 and then essentially ask for an even deadlier low altitude K-4. :D


Edited by Kurfürst

http://www.kurfurst.org - The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site

 

Vezérünk a bátorság, Kísérőnk a szerencse!

-Motto of the RHAF 101st 'Puma' Home Air Defense Fighter Regiment

The Answer to the Ultimate Question of the K-4, the Universe, and Everything: Powerloading 550 HP / ton, 1593 having been made up to 31th March 1945, 314 K-4s were being operated in frontline service on 31 January 1945.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's what's your doing in fact. Claiming that a marginal top speed advantage will allow you disengage. It does not and it cannot.

 

What actually allows the K-4 to disengage is its acceleration (=high excess thrust at all speeds vs low weight), not its rather theoretical top speed. At 250 mph it accelerates about TWICE as fast as the Mustang. It reaches higher speeds faster and thus travels at higher speeds most of time well before it reaches its top speed. It starts to extend range very fast because it can gain a speed advantage at the very start of the running contest, not at the end of it two minutes later.

 

The why is easy to see if you look at for example the Pony's climb rate (=excess thrust at low speed) which is massively inferior, and power to weight ratio (which is also massively inferior). Their similar top speed means that the excess thrust/acceleration gets close/even as we are nearing the 370 mph top speed line, but the Pony is beaten in practical speed long before that happens.

 

And the G-14 is at least equal to the K in this regard, if not superior (it climbs even better, P/W is similar), until they are near their top speeds. What would happen is that the G-14 would extend away/catch up with everyone else, including the K even faster at the start of the run and maintain that advantage for a good while. Eventually it would get slowly overtaken but its little comfort since it already had plenty of time to shoot you down / get out of gun solution from a hot situation and try something else.

 

The only thing that can challenge the late 109s at this game is late Soviet birds, particularly the La 7, but those aren't in, aren't planned AFAIK and their magic disappears very quickly if you climb a bit, because their engines are only able to maintain their power output to about 2-3000 meters at best.


Edited by Kurfürst

http://www.kurfurst.org - The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site

 

Vezérünk a bátorság, Kísérőnk a szerencse!

-Motto of the RHAF 101st 'Puma' Home Air Defense Fighter Regiment

The Answer to the Ultimate Question of the K-4, the Universe, and Everything: Powerloading 550 HP / ton, 1593 having been made up to 31th March 1945, 314 K-4s were being operated in frontline service on 31 January 1945.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The DCS K-4 was slower (570kph at deck) one year ago and also less maneuverable. The usual suspects where whining back than as well if not more. Nothing would change with a G-14, nothing at all. These threads would still pop up on a monthly basis. In other sims (not saying names here, but BoB) the 109 can disengage at will too and noone is crying about it, because a spit with E advantage is hard to beat and the lower wingloading Spits outperform the 109 at high alt. Not even going into high speed maneuverability of the Mustang. These threads are seriously counter productive for this community..

  • Like 1

Cougar, CH and Saitek PnP hall sensor kits + shift registers: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=220916

 

Shapeways store for DIY flight simming equipment and repair: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/rel4y-diy-joystick-flight-simming

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The DCS K-4 was slower (570kph at deck) one year ago and also less maneuverable. The usual suspects where whining back than as well if not more. Nothing would change with a G-14, nothing at all. These threads would still pop up on a monthly basis. In other sims (not saying names here, but BoB) the 109 can disengage at will too and noone is crying about it, because a spit with E advantage is hard to beat and the lower wingloading Spits outperform the 109 at high alt. Not even going into high speed maneuverability of the Mustang. These threads are seriously counter productive for this community..

 

+1

  • Like 1

Once you have tasted Flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your Eyes turned Skyward.

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

9./JG27

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why would the G14 suddenly be a much better in turning? The weight would not have such a huge impact, it would probably suffer from even greater stick forces... See I can make ludicrous assumptions as well kurfurst ;)

Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit

Project IX Cockpit

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only thing that can challenge the late 109s at this game is late Soviet birds, particularly the La 7, but those aren't in, aren't planned AFAIK and their magic disappears very quickly if you climb a bit, because their engines are only able to maintain their power output to about 2-3000 meters at best.

 

Don't worry the Mk 14 is planned so we will get our own ufo , looking forward to that :thumbup:

Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit

Project IX Cockpit

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's what's your doing in fact. Claiming that a marginal top speed advantage will allow you disengage. It does not and it cannot.

 

Then, in my opinion, your view of what air combat is about is quite narrow. A mustang could and will use those 15kph speed advantage in the right circumstances.

 

What actually allows the K-4 to disengage is its acceleration (=high excess thrust at all speeds vs low weight), not its rather theoretical top speed. At 250 mph it accelerates about TWICE as fast as the Mustang. It reaches higher speeds faster and thus travels at higher speeds most of time well before it reaches its top speed. It starts to extend range very fast because it can gain a speed advantage at the very start of the running contest, not at the end of it two minutes later.

 

You forgot that a mustang can accelerate as fast or faster than a 109 in the dive and can build up speed very rapidly.

 

Basically what you are doing is considering the mustang will fight the same way that a 109. A good mustang pilot will always maintain a high speed approach to combat that way. In that situation having a 15kph advantage will let him maintain any gap and increase it further if the situation demand it.

Obviously depending on the circumstances and specially if caught low or slow those 15kph would mean little.

 

The only thing that can challenge the late 109s at this game is late Soviet birds, particularly the La 7, but those aren't in, aren't planned AFAIK and their magic disappears very quickly if you climb a bit, because their engines are only able to maintain their power output to about 2-3000 meters at best.

 

Don't forget about the Spit XIV and the Tempest. Specially the former is faster, climb equally or better and turns at least the same. Only dives worse. And does this on average from SL up to its combat ceiling.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So the Mk14 will be an addon for the Mk9, or are you talking about the VEAO module? Im a noobie Allied pilot, I've yet to score a kill online with the Spit, but even I've found myself on the six of a 109 and had to watch in frustration as it accelerated away from me leaving me in the dust. Still, I enjoy the challenge and no doubt Im going to get a lucky kill or two in the next 6-12 months :)


Edited by OnlyforDCS

Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So the Mk14 will be an addon for the Mk9, or are you talking about the VEAO module? Im a noobie Allied pilot, I've yet to score a kill online with the Spit, but even I've found myself on the six of a 109 and had to watch in frustration as it accelerated away from me leaving me in the dust. Still, I enjoy the challenge and no doubt Im going to get a lucky kill or two in the next 6-12 months :)

 

Yes it is the module being developed by VEAO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No matter how many times I explain to Kurfurst why the P-51 speed advantage is critical to maintain balance he still doesn't seem to get it. I've tried to be respectful as I do enjoy using his site, but you've shown little to no respect.

 

Here's my message I sent to him.

 

"...Going from cc 1700 hp to 1800 hp is not all that significant, you still have cc 4,5 ton plane vs a 3,4 ton plane with very similar engines..." ~ Kurfurst

 

It is so critical that Mustang gets its octane upgrade because of speed, not power to weight ratio. The thing about the K4 is it is the first BF-109 to out class all American fighters in top speed. American planes are always inferior when it comes to power to weight ratio, that's a given. But when you allow the mustang to have a higher top speed than the K4 you give it the ability to "runstang". And also allows American pilots to chase down any aircraft.

 

Also when you increase the top speed its almost as if you're solidifying the other advantages of the Mustang, high speed maneuverability, roll rate, dive and energy retention. E.g: So when a Mustang "runstangs" it can continue its pursuit back to base or where ever its trying to go. It also opens 100's of windows for working as a team.

 

Thanks.

 

Kurfurst, I've fought planes in other simulators with similar circumstances. Even when my top speed advantage was a measly 15kph I can still maintain distance from them. Their acceleration, climb and turn means nothing to a pilot when they rely speed, dive and energy retention.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No matter how many times I explain to Kurfurst why the P-51 speed advantage is critical to maintain balance he still doesn't seem to get it. I've tried to be respectful as I do enjoy using his site, but you've shown little to no respect.

 

Here's my message I sent to him.

 

"...Going from cc 1700 hp to 1800 hp is not all that significant, you still have cc 4,5 ton plane vs a 3,4 ton plane with very similar engines..." ~ Kurfurst

 

It is so critical that Mustang gets its octane upgrade because of speed, not power to weight ratio. The thing about the K4 is it is the first BF-109 to out class all American fighters in top speed. American planes are always inferior when it comes to power to weight ratio, that's a given. But when you allow the mustang to have a higher top speed than the K4 you give it the ability to "runstang". And also allows American pilots to chase down any aircraft.

 

Also when you increase the top speed its almost as if you're solidifying the other advantages of the Mustang, high speed maneuverability, roll rate, dive and energy retention. E.g: So when a Mustang "runstangs" it can continue its pursuit back to base or where ever its trying to go. It also opens 100's of windows for working as a team.

 

Thanks.

 

Kurfurst, I've fought planes in other simulators with similar circumstances. Even when my top speed advantage was a measly 15kph I can still maintain distance from them. Their acceleration, climb and turn means nothing to a pilot when they rely speed, dive and energy retention.

 

What i don't like about these threads that pop up, and i'm not talking about you, there's little logic behind them.

 

The 109 used to be slower because of a bug.SO you had what you're asking for (more speed compared to 109) and people still complained.In fact they used to complain more back then.

 

The 109 used to turn a lot worse.People still complained that's it's impossible to defeat.In fact they complained more then they do now.

 

@Everybody complaining

 

ED heard you a long time ago .You will get a new p51 probably boosted and you also get a spit14 at some point.We need to attract new players to our community , not waste everybody's time with pointless threads.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...