Bombing CCIP-CCRP annoying

[Kaliphtan]

Hello folks,

 

My problem is when i want to bomb with su-27, su-25, su-25t and i want to dive and bomb it always make CCIP ( with little diamond symbol) but i always fail at launching at CCIP and it's not precise, so i have to override authorisations but it's not precise too, it's VERY annoying because i can't use bombs that i want to use, eg : some bombs like the fab 100 x4 launch in CCRP but fab 500 and KAB 500 keep launching at CCIP, i'm going crazy atm with this, there is a way to fix this problem ?

 

Thanks

 

 

EDIT : i just want to bomb with CCRP.

 

Actually i'm maybe wrong about ccip - ccrp since i don't find the meaning of thoses words,

 

so when i try to bomb diving there is CCIP on the HUD and it make a diamond symbol that i don't want

Edited February 27, 2017 by Kaliphtan

[razo+r]

if a diamond appears you are in CCRP

 

CCIP is on when a circle with a dot appears and a vertical line

 

if you want to bomb with CCRP, put the diamond on the target and fly the vector that the computer tells you to fly and wait for release

[ShuRugal]

CCIP and CCRP are automatically switched in the FC3 modules.

 

CCIP: when the impact point is visible in the HUD, you get a circle indicator and when trigger is pressed, weapon will release.

 

CCRP: if impact point is below HUD FOV, a diamond symbol appears. to bomb in CCRP mode, follow the following steps:

1: establish level flight and alight diamond with target

2: with diamond alight, press and hold the release trigger

3: while holding trigger, steering/banking cues will appear. steer and bank the aircraft to keep the triangle marker centered on the top of the CCRP reticule.

4: while passing through the computed release point, weapon will release if trigger is still held.

[Kaliphtan]

Thanks for your answers razo+r and ShuRugal, the problem is it show IP (ccip) on the hud but when i want to drop bombs it act like ccrp

[razo+r]

What dive angle did you have when you got CCRP instead of CCIP and with which bombs?

[Scottvdken]

Are you sure you are low enough to engage CCIP mode? You won't get the line and reticule for CCIP unless you are low enough / dive angle is steep enough. In the FC3 modules it will pretty much always show you the CCRP diamond for targeting. Only once you reach a low enough altitude for the CCIP reticule to engage will it become visible.

[esb77]

To perform CCIP bombing the impact point needs to be within the HUD.

 

In general in the Russian FC3 aircraft you want to be at about 3000 m AGL, 450 to 600 km/h airspeed, and then dive at the target with low throttle at a dive angle of at least 30 degrees. Ideally release and pull up by around 1200 m AGL to avoid all danger of self frag or controlled flight into terrain. You can push it a bit lower with a smaller bomb like a FAB 100.

 

 

For low level CCIP bombing you'd either be using the submunition canisters or retarded bombs. For those the key is high speed and low altitude. On the order of 750 to 800 km/h and 100 to 200 m AGL. For the retarded bombs it's important to factor in wind direction, as they can drift a surprising distance on the way down.

 

You might try the tutorial missions for the Su-25T and the Su - 27. I know the Su - 25 ones cover CCIP bombing, and I think the Su- 27 ones do as well.

[Winston 60]

In the Su-33 you ALWAYS get the CCIP pipper and bomb fall line immediately after selecting A/G mode and bombs. This is where the problem occurs for me, as you don't know on a bomb run in if it's going to give you the CCRP diamond or just release the bombs at your current CCIP aiming point when you press the trigger. I know it has to do with altitude, dive angle and distance to target, but it seems a crapshoot if:

 

a. you get the diamond :dunno:

or

b. the bombs will just immediately drop. :thumbdown:

[Ironhand]

In the Su-33 you ALWAYS get the CCIP pipper and bomb fall line immediately after selecting A/G mode and bombs. This is where the problem occurs for me, as you don't know on a bomb run in if it's going to give you the CCRP diamond or just release the bombs at your current CCIP aiming point when you press the trigger. I know it has to do with altitude, dive angle and distance to target, but it seems a crapshoot if:

 

a. you get the diamond :dunno:

or

b. the bombs will just immediately drop. :thumbdown:

First, for those who don't know...

 

CCIP: Continuously Computed Impact Point

 

CCRP: Continuously Computed Release Point

 

When you enter A2G mode with iron bombs, you get the aiming pipper and are in CCIP mode. Maneuver the aircraft to place the pipper on your intended target. When you do so, one of two things will happen. You will either get the "Release Authorized" symbol at the bottom of the HUD or you won't. If you do, the impact point is under the pipper and the weapon will release immediately upon pressing the release button (CCIP). If you don't get the Release Authorized designation, you will enter CCRP, if you press release, with the system determining when to release the weapon as the parameters change.

 

So you always know what's going to happen when you go to release. With the "Release Authorized" designation, the bombs come off the rail immediately. If you don't have release authorization, the system holds them until your flight reaches the point where a release will hit the impact point you designate by pressing and holding the release button.

 

I've attached a short track (nothing fancy) with 3 passes, 2 CCIP and the last a CCRP. Hopefully it'll play back correctly. I'm using the Su-27 because my stick is set up for it. But it works the same in the Su-33.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Ironhand

[Winston 60]

... I'm using the Su-27 because my stick is set up for it. But it works the same in the Su-33...

You really need to try this in the Su-33. In the Su-27 I have no problems. In the Su-33 it's sometimes different. If you don't get the CCRP diamond, the bombs come off immediately but do not hit the point where the CCIP pipper was. It's totally a crapshoot, doesn't always happen, just enough to be annoying.

[AJaromir]

Do you have turned on laser rangefinder?

[Ironhand]

You really need to try this in the Su-33. In the Su-27 I have no problems. In the Su-33 it's sometimes different. If you don't get the CCRP diamond, the bombs come off immediately but do not hit the point where the CCIP pipper was. It's totally a crapshoot, doesn't always happen, just enough to be annoying.

I did try it a few times with the same results prior to making the track with the Su-27. But if it's an on-again off-again thing, I'm not likely to have spotted it. Perhaps you can post a track?
Edited March 3, 2017 by Ironhand

[Winston 60]

I did try it a few times with the same results prior to making the track with the Su-27. But if it's an on-again off-again thing, I'm not likely to have spotted it. Perhaps you can post a track?

We noticed this when extensively playtesting my latest US Navy Squadrons Su-33 Carrier Ops, Single and Multi player missions. After spending so much time in Carrier ops we've since gone to flying other planes for awhile, but if this continues to be an issue I'll post a track of our next multiplayer Carrier Ops session or a playtesting track of the upcoming Mission 4 in a few months. Hopefully this is a bug known to ED and relevant only to the simple FM of the Su-33 as it doesn't happen in the Su-27. Also the bug has only been showing up when bombing targets on the water, and my upcoming Mission 4 will have land targets that I can compare to.

[Ironhand]

We noticed this when extensively playtesting my latest ...Also the bug has only been showing up when bombing targets on the water...

That is a significant observation, if it only shows up over water.

[Winston 60]

That is a significant observation, if it only shows up over water.

Yeah, we're finding a lot of release version 1.5.6 bugs directly relating to the Su-33, the Kuz's carrier launches and ships on the water. IMHO 1.5.6 is a patch that should be immediately patched again or officially rolled back.

[proletariat23]

You have to guess that with the current state of carrier operations a lot of the timeframe for the hornet is just that

[proletariat23]

This is just a suggestion, from my experience but the problem seems to be coming from the control architecture . For instance, the pickle reticle sometimes "hiccups" flashing, never giving you launch authorization or flashing . Now weapon selection seems to matter too. The result is that sometimes you intend to designate for CCRP and you just pickle like 4 miles away.

 

Sometimes you go to bomb CCIP off a high g dive and it just mocks you with the diamond, you scramble to fix it and release every weapon you had.

 

 

The simple fix, is to in ground mode , change the CCRP designation button from fire weapon, to target lock.

 

The su family doesn't have a pickle command or a second trooper detente , so many functions fighting on one trigger.

 

It might not be sim quality but it's a small change for functionality. I am trying to master the su 27 ground attack. There is pilot error, poor gunnery, and there is fighting clunky controls.

 

This is fighting clunky functions. In the su family, on the stick, there is a two way switch, which is used for the toggle of this mode. Even that would be better than this triple trigger function which seems to fight its nature .

[proletariat23]

And I did test the 33 as well- it is by far, worse.

[Winston 60]

And I did test the 33 as well- it is by far, worse.

* +1

* Agreed.

* And still no word of any patch to fix the many bugs reported for stable release version 1.5.6.1938 after 6 weeks of multiplayer frustration. :cry_2:

[Ironhand]

OK. I just spent about a 1/2 hour each in both the Su-27 and Su-33 dropping a variety of iron bombs from various altitudes and at no point was I surprised by what happened. When I wanted to drop CCRP, they released CCRP and hit the intended target. When I wanted to release using CCIP, they released CCIP and hit the intended target.

 

These were all over land. So, Winston 60, it might be different from what happens over water. I think you had mentioned that in this thread or elsewhere. I had previously thought there was something wrong with the Su-33 but the issue was that I never set the Su-33 up for my flight stick. Once I did, the "quirkiness" I had been seeing disappeared.

 

The "flashing" bomb fall line means that what's currently under your pipper can only be hit using CCRP. Once it becomes solid, what's under your pipper will be hit using CCIP. As I noted above, I was never caught by surprise in an hour's worth of bombing. Each set of bombs in both aircraft released in the mode I was expecting.

 

EDIT: Just spent a bit more time over water in the Su-33 bombing ships. Again, no surprises.

Edited March 24, 2017 by Ironhand

[Winston 60]

...The "flashing" bomb fall line means that what's currently under your pipper can only be hit using CCRP. Once it becomes solid, what's under your pipper will be hit using CCIP. As I noted above, I was never caught by surprise in an hour's worth of bombing. Each set of bombs in both aircraft released in the mode I was expecting.

 

EDIT: Just spent a bit more time over water in the Su-33 bombing ships. Again, no surprises.

Thanks Ironhand. I didn't know this was the cue for this new bomb fall line. It would be nice if ED would document some of these things when they implement a new feature. I'll keep this in mind if I ever get back in the Su-33 but for now after 6 weeks and no patch to the buggy stable release version 1.5.6.1938, all my carrier missions are FUBAR. :joystick:

Edited March 24, 2017 by Winston 60

[cthulhu68]

The "flashing" bomb fall line means that what's currently under your pipper can only be hit using CCRP. Once it becomes solid, what's under your pipper will be hit using CCIP. .

I think the flashing was just a temporary bug. In last 2.0 changelog it refers to bomb fall line on Russian aircraft fixed. Wont flash anymore.

Testing it I see no flashing line. It does seem like they adjusted how the ccip pipper appears. Seems it doesn't pop up as quickly.

[proletariat23]

the "problem" i observe is during that "flashing state"...

 

it seems like, when its flashing I try to CCRP, it CCIP's anyway, and when I want to CCRP, i put the bomb reticle on the area of intent and hold down the function key and it just launches.

 

sometimes, I'd say 40% of the time, it works as I expected it. I've only been flying this simulator for about 2 months, so I'm just going off of expected behavior from training and from what other pilots are saying to me.

 

It is, at best, consistently inconsistent in a way that perhaps you've become accustomed to. It could simply be "quirky" in a sense I have yet to percieve. I thank you for your response and efforts in this matter, as I found great frustration, and to your point, whatever I am experiencing is tenfold over water. almost to the point of being impractical.

 

Seemed to be synchronized with the radar alternating from "r" to larger increments. I apologize if my descriptors sometime fall short as I still feel like I am grasping in the dark at times.

[proletariat23]

and for transparency and honesty of documentation I am playing steam install, so Whatever it may be is more than likely, err... pronounced.

[Ironhand]

the "problem" i observe is during that "flashing state"...

 

it seems like, when its flashing I try to CCRP, it CCIP's anyway, and when I want to CCRP, i put the bomb reticle on the area of intent and hold down the function key and it just launches.

 

sometimes, I'd say 40% of the time, it works as I expected it. I've only been flying this simulator for about 2 months, so I'm just going off of expected behavior from training and from what other pilots are saying to me.

 

It is, at best, consistently inconsistent in a way that perhaps you've become accustomed to. It could simply be "quirky" in a sense I have yet to percieve. I thank you for your response and efforts in this matter, as I found great frustration, and to your point, whatever I am experiencing is tenfold over water. almost to the point of being impractical.

 

Seemed to be synchronized with the radar alternating from "r" to larger increments. I apologize if my descriptors sometime fall short as I still feel like I am grasping in the dark at times.

The next time this inconsistency happens, please save the track and upload it to this thread. And, please indicate if you can, where in the timeline it's happening. If it's wrong 60% of the time, it shouldn't take long to come up with multiple examples in one track. I'd like to see what you're seeing.

 

Thanks.

 

I think the flashing was just a temporary bug. In last 2.0 changelog it refers to bomb fall line on Russian aircraft fixed. Wont flash anymore.

Testing it I see no flashing line. It does seem like they adjusted how the ccip pipper appears. Seems it doesn't pop up as quickly.

I just updated 2.0. I'll fly it in the AM and take a look. Whether or not the flashing should be there, it serves as an indication that you're going to drop in CCRP if you pickle at that time. So, in a way, I don't mind it. :)

Edited March 25, 2017 by Ironhand