What is a good AFAC unit type for red coalition?

[FlightControl]

Anybody have a good suggestion?

[razo+r]

Anybody have a good suggestion?

 

You can use any unit

 

But otherwise there is one, but i don't know the name...

 

But it is like an apc, not really heavy armored and has only a mg as main gun

[FlightControl]

You can use any unit

 

But otherwise there is one, but i don't know the name...

 

But it is like an apc, not really heavy armored and has only a mg as main gun

 

 

What I'm looking for is an air unit, helicopter or plane, that has a detection capability to detect ground units from "far".

 

If none, what is a good ground unit to detect targets?

 

FC

[razo+r]

What I'm looking for is an air unit, helicopter or plane, that has a detection capability to detect ground units from "far".

 

If none, what is a good ground unit to detect targets?

 

FC

 

Every plane, AI has the same far range for detection

 

Any chopper should work too

 

You can use any AI unit for that

[EasyEB]

I assume you are asking for what type would be used in the real world? The Black Shark has recon as one of its main purposes irl so one of those would perhapsfit the bill.

 

Note: I'm no expert on Russian aircraft and their purposes so I could very well be wrong.

[Fri13]

It would be the KA-50 then. Capability to recon, has datalink, easy target pointing, buddy lazing capabilities and very long loitering time, as well great self-defense and attack capabilities as well. Very greatly capable for hide'n'seek as well.

 

But in DCS it ain't so effective as in reality it should be. Because Vikhr doesn't have the simulated Air-to-Air mode, no way to activate the fragmentation sleeve on Vikhr missiles and locking to flying target is far more difficult than it should be. This means that while KA-50 is capable to lock and engage low flying fast movers, in DCS it ain't effective for that because lack of simulations.

[FlightControl]

It would be the KA-50 then. Capability to recon, has datalink, easy target pointing, buddy lazing capabilities and very long loitering time, as well great self-defense and attack capabilities as well. Very greatly capable for hide'n'seek as well.

 

But in DCS it ain't so effective as in reality it should be. Because Vikhr doesn't have the simulated Air-to-Air mode, no way to activate the fragmentation sleeve on Vikhr missiles and locking to flying target is far more difficult than it should be. This means that while KA-50 is capable to lock and engage low flying fast movers, in DCS it ain't effective for that because lack of simulations.

 

 

Thanks.

 

Took an mi-28N, and put the option SEARCH RADAR ALWAYS ON...

 

that provides the expected results.

 

The Ka-50 is also good.

[shagrat]

For ground FAC, consider BRDM-2 and Tigr.

The BRDM-2 is a recon unit, usually doing picket duty to recon and identify advancing enemy troops.

 

The Tigr is pretty similar to the Humvee.

[FlightControl]

For ground FAC, consider BRDM-2 and Tigr.

The BRDM-2 is a recon unit, usually doing picket duty to recon and identify advancing enemy troops.

 

The Tigr is pretty similar to the Humvee.

 

Thanks!

 

You know why these questions are for eh :-)

[FlightControl]

For ground FAC, consider BRDM-2 and Tigr.

The BRDM-2 is a recon unit, usually doing picket duty to recon and identify advancing enemy troops.

 

The Tigr is pretty similar to the Humvee.

 

What is the UNIT name of the default RECCE vehicle for the blue coalition?

[Pikey]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by default but the unarmed "APC M1025 HMMV" that you can give FAC to is DCS unit name of "Hummer"

[FlightControl]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by default but the unarmed "APC M1025 HMMV" that you can give FAC to is DCS unit name of "Hummer"

 

Just tested with that vehicle. It gives very bad results.

 

Better is the APC M1043 HMMWV Armament, it detects targets from a much further distance.

[NeilWillis]

Indeed, an armed vehicle will be capable of using WP and lasing, which is a handicap of the unarmed HMMWV.

 

Any light APC would do in theory, but one with a decent laser sight, reasonable protection, and night vision gear fits the bill. Something like a Scimitar CVR(T) is used in the UK forces, or perhaps a Warrior these days I suspect.

 

Frankly, you could use any MBT for the role too.

[FlightControl]

Indeed, an armed vehicle will be capable of using WP and lasing, which is a handicap of the unarmed HMMWV.

 

Any light APC would do in theory, but one with a decent laser sight, reasonable protection, and night vision gear fits the bill. Something like a Scimitar CVR(T) is used in the UK forces, or perhaps a Warrior these days I suspect.

 

Frankly, you could use any MBT for the role too.

 

The issue that i see within DCS, there is no vehicle on the blue side in the role of RECCE or FAC, just as on the red side.

 

Other question, are there ANY planes that can be used as recce for detecting ground troops, other than having to use a visual?

The F-15E has a ground radar f.e., not sure if such works in DCS through.

Any russian planes that can be used for this role?

[shagrat]

Depends on country and branch.

US army typically Humvee. If a heavy combat environment option could be a Stryker.

The Marines or Canada could use a Humvee or LAV-25.

Germany would use a TPz Fuchs, at least in DCS.

 

In general with the advent of UAVs like the Predator and Reaper, blue forces rely more and more on UAVs for Recce.

Typical AFAC could be F-16C, F/A-18, A-10C (TGP) or F-15E...

 

In general any unit can talk another onto a target, but the above are more common in this kind of role.

[FlightControl]

Depends on country and branch.

US army typically Humvee. If a heavy combat environment option could be a Stryker.

 

The Marines or Canada could use a Humvee or LAV-25.

Germany would use a TPz Fuchs, at least in DCS.

 

In general with the advent of UAVs like the Predator and Reaper, blue forces rely more and more on UAVs for Recce.

Typical AFAC could be F-16C, F/A-18, A-10C (TGP) or F-15E...

 

In general any unit can talk another onto a target, but the above are more common in this kind of role.

 

 

thank you Shagrat,

 

 

sorry for asking, but is there on the red coalition also an air unit that can perform recce on a larger scale?

 

 

Sven

[shagrat]

Not in the sence of AFAC.

The MiG-25R Foxbat B versions where reconnaissance aircraft, but more for fast high level passes for strike preparation and intelligence gathering. Something akin to the SR-71 Blackbird.

As well it is a typical plane of the 70ies and 80ies...

 

I am no expert in that regard. Maybe somebody else has more insight in Warsaw pact doctrine and capabilities?

[Bearfoot]

Hi FlightControl,

 

The excellent Isby book lists the following recon vehicles for Red: BRDM-1, BRDM-2, BTR-40, and PT-76. The section on helicopters does not have any one performing an explicit scouting role, just lift/transport and attack. Of course, all this was not COIN, but 80's-era force-on-force symmetrical warfare scenario. Maybe the thinking was that would not be possible for any aircraft to loiter for very long at or behind the FEBA, as it would quickly be taken out by the gazillion anti-air (ground or air) assets? Of course, the UK used the Gazelle in this role in the same type of conflict, so maybe that thinking was not correct or at least not shared by everyone?

 

For DCS, I think Ka-50 and/or Su-25 would work fine for this?

[shagrat]

Hi FlightControl,

 

The excellent Isby book lists the following recon vehicles for Red: BRDM-1, BRDM-2, BTR-40, and PT-76. The section on helicopters does not have any one performing an explicit scouting role, just lift/transport and attack. Of course, all this was not COIN, but 80's-era force-on-force symmetrical warfare scenario. Maybe the thinking was that would not be possible for any aircraft to loiter for very long at or behind the FEBA, as it would quickly be taken out by the gazillion anti-air (ground or air) assets? Of course, the UK used the Gazelle in this role in the same type of conflict, so maybe that thinking was not correct or at least not shared by everyone?

 

For DCS, I think Ka-50 and/or Su-25 would work fine for this?

The 70ies/80ies had a classic recon role for light armored vehicles and light agile scout helicopters. They were to move ahead of the main force and identify the advancing enemy troops and location. First to see what they were up against, and second where the enemy command amassed MBTs, IFVs etc. so they can arrange the appropriate units against the most imminent threat.

And third Forward Observer role for artillery barrages.

Blue even had specialist units M113 FIST with a retractable telescopic sight, not unlike the Gazelle optics for artillery spotters.

That is of course slightly different, than the modern FAC or Fire Control Team concept, where the guys are directly embedded with each platoon sized unit, whenever necessary.

Also the COIN scenarios focus heavily on interaction between the FAC and pilot. Not so much about the "scouting" ahead aspect.

In fact the pilot of any plane can support ground troops, through a FAC/JTAC and if it is just by giving the guys on the ground a picture from above with eyeball Mk I and talking to the FAC what they see.

 

The recon task as in gathering intelligence of enemy position and troop composition on the ground, today is often done by specialist recon units on foot or in unarmed agile vehicles. Not limited to, but for example British Pathfinders, U.S. Recon Marines, german Fernspäher, or similar.

[shagrat]

DELETED double post

Edited March 6, 2017 by shagrat
Double post through Tapatalk

[feefifofum]

I think the Su-24MR can be assigned the "reconnaissance" tasking and loaded with a camera pod...not sure how this affects your world FC but may be worth a look.

 

EDIT: Sounds like it may be a winner: from the Wikipedia entry -

 

Su-24MR ('Fencer-E')Dedicated tactical reconnaissance variant. First flight 25 July 1980 as T-6MR-26, 13 April 1983 as Su-24MR. Entered service in 1983. Su-24MR retains much of the Su-24M's navigation suite, including the terrain-following radar, but deletes the Orion-A attack radar, the laser/TV system, and the cannon in favor of two panoramic camerainstallations, 'Aist-M' ('Stork') TV camera, RDS-BO 'Shtik' ('Bayonet') side-looking airborne radar (SLAR), and 'Zima' ('Winter') infrared reconnaissance system. Other sensors are carried in pod form. Manufactured 1983–1993.[1]

Edited March 7, 2017 by feefifofum

[shagrat]

I think the Su-24MR can be assigned the "reconnaissance" tasking and loaded with a camera pod...not sure how this affects your world FC but may be worth a look.

 

EDIT: Sounds like it may be a winner: from the Wikipedia entry -

 

Su-24MR ('Fencer-E')Dedicated tactical reconnaissance variant. First flight 25 July 1980 as T-6MR-26, 13 April 1983 as Su-24MR. Entered service in 1983. Su-24MR retains much of the Su-24M's navigation suite, including the terrain-following radar, but deletes the Orion-A attack radar, the laser/TV system, and the cannon in favor of two panoramic camerainstallations, 'Aist-M' ('Stork') TV camera, RDS-BO 'Shtik' ('Bayonet') side-looking airborne radar (SLAR), and 'Zima' ('Winter') infrared reconnaissance system. Other sensors are carried in pod form. Manufactured 1983–1993.[1]

Good find! That sounds indeed promising as a recconaissance plane to guide and support ground troops.

[FlightControl]

I think the Su-24MR can be assigned the "reconnaissance" tasking and loaded with a camera pod...not sure how this affects your world FC but may be worth a look.

 

EDIT: Sounds like it may be a winner: from the Wikipedia entry -

 

Su-24MR ('Fencer-E')Dedicated tactical reconnaissance variant. First flight 25 July 1980 as T-6MR-26, 13 April 1983 as Su-24MR. Entered service in 1983. Su-24MR retains much of the Su-24M's navigation suite, including the terrain-following radar, but deletes the Orion-A attack radar, the laser/TV system, and the cannon in favor of two panoramic camerainstallations, 'Aist-M' ('Stork') TV camera, RDS-BO 'Shtik' ('Bayonet') side-looking airborne radar (SLAR), and 'Zima' ('Winter') infrared reconnaissance system. Other sensors are carried in pod form. Manufactured 1983–1993.[1]

 

 

Twisted with an su-24MR and the pod, but don't see a significant different detection from the normal su-25T. Maybe I do something wrong. I'll post a demo mission.

[FlightControl]

Good find! That sounds indeed promising as a recconaissance plane to guide and support ground troops.

 

Download this small test mission using some MOOSE functions ...

To run this mission, work only in MAP mode (F10).

You can speed up time using CTRL-W (or Z)

 

You see a red airplane flying over a zone with hundreds of potential targets. The detection is dynamic, and will use the detection capabilities of the red plane and will dynamically group (ungroup) detected targets in areas of 2km wide...

The areas are indicated by the moose framework adding tyres around the areas formed. You'll see these with a red diamond symbol.

 

Try different planes, with different detection capabilities (like pods) at different altitudes. Try helicopters, with the same variations. Try to switch the red and the blue side.

 

The only requirement is that your FACA is called FAC. The rest doesn't matter.

 

You'll see that the su-24MR equipped with the kopyo radar pod does not make a lot of difference.

 

You'll notice some performance lag after a while when speeding up time, but that is caused by the tyre placement logic (statics).

 

Enjoy exploring.

 

FC

 

Am interested in your findings and thoughts, so feel free to post.

DET-900 - Detection Test with RED FACA.miz

Edited March 10, 2017 by FlightControl