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Su-27 - breaking vertcal stabilisers


Falcon_S
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What can you say about this? How is realistic and typical for fighters?

 

What force is required for this type of disaster?

 

 

I know that old bombers had this problem and airliners but...

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Maybe stomping on the rudders at higher speeds is what should be avoided then? I've noticed that too, and I adjusted my behavior and no longer deflect rudders fully at those speeds - doesn't break anymore.

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I can only say this:

 

If ever there was something wrong in aviation then that is simulated / applied in DCS only at DCS Su-27.


Edited by Falcon_S
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In the Year 2001 a Airbus A300 try to evade after the Book wake turbulences with heavy Rudder deflections, the Rudder complete broke up from the Tail and the Airbus crashed in Queens NY.

It looks not impressive strong in the Video but dont know how weak or strong a Su-27 can accept heavy oscillation on the Ruder before it breaks up.

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....

It looks not impressive strong in the Video but dont know how weak or strong a Su-27 can accept heavy oscillation on the Ruder before it breaks up.

 

This happened to me the first time yesterday. I chased some blue with gun and my speed was about 700-750km/h... Small change of direction with no intention of using Ruder (but it seems that I touched him a little) disaster occurred.

 

After that, I wanted to test as can be seen on video. I know that there may be some limits but do not you think that Su-27 is a "delicate flower" in DCS with all these breaks?

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According to the Su-27SK manual at speeds over 600 km/h you are not allowed to push the rudders more than double the ball diameter because vertical stabilizators resistance. Also rudder movement is limited to 1/3 of his total displacement with a forcé of 17 kg.

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According to the Su-27SK manual at speeds over 600 km/h you are not allowed to push the rudders more than double the ball diameter because vertical stabilizators resistance. Also rudder movement is limited to 1/3 of his total displacement with a forcé of 17 kg.

 

I guess this settles it then! :thumbup:

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I can only say this:

 

If ever there was something wrong in aviation then that is simulated / applied in DCS only at DCS Su-27.

 

 

So we are facing a great job by the ED.

It seems that all the weaknesses of the Su-27 are simulated perfectly.

In summary ..

In BVR combat can not use missiles with active radar guidance, because the currently simulated version of the Su-27, in reality not so equipped.

To develop a later version, where it is possible to equip the aircraft of this type of weapon, it can not, because everything is shrouded in military secrecy.

In Dogfight, resistance to stress on the part of the wing surfaces in conditions of high g, is simulated perfectly..

If you try to make the cobra maneuver, 9 times out of 10, it goes against the total loss of control of the aircraft.

If it were so in real life, the Russians would not even an aircraft in their hangars.

It's a difficult maneuver to do I can understand it, but it's so highly risky I can not believe it.

Everything is being done to disadvantage the pilots of the Russian aircraft against the pilots of F-15C.

Obviously, the F-15C are free of such problems, the F-15C are indestructible, a masterpiece of aeronautical engineering..

I still can not believe, that there are in the team, Russian programmers in this flight simulator.

Great job Eagle Dynamics, well done.


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According to the Su-27SK manual at speeds over 600 km/h you are not allowed to push the rudders more than double the ball diameter because vertical stabilizators resistance. Also rudder movement is limited to 1/3 of his total displacement with a forcé of 17 kg.

 

You mean on this?

attachment.php?attachmentid=158611&stc=1&d=1488995864

 

If i understand well that mean - to limit ruder throw to 1/3, after gear up for direction control system will be turned on limiter with 17kgs force.

sk3.png.805b00c6c83001bc86f818367901c3ae.png

sk2.png.9aba1a84ebe710a2ac4d058426128ba3.png


Edited by Falcon_S
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Barring some very exceptional circumstances you can't break the F-15 in real life.

 

The Cobra is 99% PR. In a dogfight you want as much energy as possible and dumping all of it at once isn't a good idea in theory, it's even worse in practice.

DCS modules are built up to a spec, not down to a schedule.

 

In order to utilize a system to your advantage, you must know how it works.

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If you try to make the cobra maneuver, 9 times out of 10, it goes against the total loss of control of the aircraft.

If it were so in real life, the Russians would not even an aircraft in their hangars.

It's a difficult maneuver to do I can understand it, but it's so highly risky I can not believe it.

 

Considering how many of them have killed real-world pilots, I think your confidence in the stability of the aircraft is a bit misplaced.

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Yes Falcon.

 

In the rudder there is a mechanic limiter with a force of 17 Kg limiting the movement to 1/3 of the total displacement.

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So we are facing a great job by the ED.

It seems that all the weaknesses of the Su-27 are simulated perfectly.

In summary ..

In BVR combat can not use missiles with active radar guidance, because the currently simulated version of the Su-27, in reality not so equipped.

To develop a later version, where it is possible to equip the aircraft of this type of weapon, it can not, because everything is shrouded in military secrecy.

In Dogfight, resistance to stress on the part of the wing surfaces in conditions of high g, is simulated perfectly..

If you try to make the cobra maneuver, 9 times out of 10, it goes against the total loss of control of the aircraft.

If it were so in real life, the Russians would not even an aircraft in their hangars.

It's a difficult maneuver to do I can understand it, but it's so highly risky I can not believe it.

Everything is being done to disadvantage the pilots of the Russian aircraft against the pilots of F-15C.

Obviously, the F-15C are free of such problems, the F-15C are indestructible, a masterpiece of aeronautical engineering..

I still can not believe, that there are in the team, Russian programmers in this flight simulator.

Great job Eagle Dynamics, well done.

 

A sim player on a PC failing to do a cobra hardly correlates with real life and real fighter pilots, not to mention the ability to feel the forces on the aircraft (and the feel of the control column when displaced)...

 

Russian military does not choose aircraft based on simulators made for the general public.

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... In the rudder there is a mechanic limiter with a force of 17 Kg limiting the movement to 1/3 of the total displacement...

Perhaps then, this "1/3 limiter" should be modeled by ED somehow in our fragile Flanker?

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Perhaps then, this "1/3 limiter" should be modeled by ED somehow in our fragile Flanker?

 

Urgent. :joystick:

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Or be more gently when you push the rudder. Or use a curve for it.

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Or be more gently when you push the rudder. Or use a curve for it.

 

I don`t read that in SK manual. :music_whistling: ;)

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What can you say about this? How is realistic and typical for fighters?

 

What force is required for this type of disaster?

 

I know that old bombers had this problem and airliners but...

 

Not entirely accurate because the DCS Su-27 doesn't model the rudder limiter the real one has.

 

That being said, why are you using the rudders? The aircraft performs 95% co-ordinated turns for you. The only situations requiring use of the rudder are cross-wind landings and the occasional aerobatic display, none of which are conducted at 740 Km/h with a maximum missile load.

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