AGM-122 sidearm seeker question

[fixen]

If I read correctly, the sidearm just like the shrike has different seeker versions or configurations regarding different radar emmisions. Will this somehow be modeled or will the missile simply be able to lock onto every ground radar in DCS?

[Bacab]

If I read correctly, the sidearm just like the shrike has different seeker versions or configurations regarding different radar emmisions. Will this somehow be modeled or will the missile simply be able to lock onto every ground radar in DCS?

I wish they decide to do multiple missiles with different seekers.

[fixen]

I hope so to. Because than you have to really think about your loadout when you start a sortie and can't just take a anti radar missile against all radar targets.

[Schmidtfire]

I wonder what it would sound like, if there is a lock-sound at all? Or a special HUD symbology for it?

[fixen]

I think it is just a "shoot in the general direction of the radiating source" weapon. It will lock on to the first radar signal the seeker is able to detect. I don't think you can choose a target for the missile.

[Zeus67]

About the AGM-122: The missile no longer exists because all of them have been used and no new ones have been built. They were built from old US Navy AIM-9Cs, the radar variant of the Sidewinder. The US Navy had about 700 of them and those were converted into ARM thus the name Sidearm (Sidewinder ARM).

 

Motorola changed the SARH seeker for a new one.

 

It was a simple system and worked like the Sidewinder: you pointed the aircraft in the threat direction and let the seeker head search and lock. Once you got lock tone you fired it.

 

Motorola proposed a new model with improved seeker but by that time the HARM was already available so the US Navy said no.

 

 

I don't think it had a specific threat seeker just a general one.

[sirscorpion]

About the AGM-122: The missile no longer exists because all of them have been used and no new ones have been built. They were built from old US Navy AIM-9Cs, the radar variant of the Sidewinder. The US Navy had about 700 of them and those were converted into ARM thus the name Sidearm (Sidewinder ARM).

 

Motorola changed the SARH seeker for a new one.

 

It was a simple system and worked like the Sidewinder: you pointed the aircraft in the threat direction and let the seeker head search and lock. Once you got lock tone you fired it.

 

Motorola proposed a new model with improved seeker but by that time the HARM was already available so the US Navy said no.

 

 

I don't think it had a specific threat seeker just a general one.

 

Yep pretty much inline with the information i found, it is also a much more modern missile than the shrike seeker wise, so am assuming it will be one missile fits all "shrike is 1965, agm122 is 1986"

[Bacab]

I don't think it had a specific threat seeker just a general one.

 

Does someone know if the seeker could be tuned to a specific frequency range ?

Having a passive seeker that will lock on any kind of emitter does not seem that useful. For all the pilot knows such a missile could be targeted at a FCR but instead lock on a search radar nearby and therefore be useless.

[Ignition]

Will this missile be implemented for the AV-8?

[sirscorpion]

Does someone know if the seeker could be tuned to a specific frequency range ?

Having a passive seeker that will lock on any kind of emitter does not seem that useful. For all the pilot knows such a missile could be targeted at a FCR but instead lock on a search radar nearby and therefore be useless.

 

Modifications developed at the China Lake Naval Weapons Center and produced by Motorola included improved semi-active seeker electronics to provide coverage of the greater bandwidth required to home in on a range of air defense radars. The AIM-9C's original Mk.17 motor and WDU-17 warhead were retained, with the substitution of a DSU-15 active fuse. Control electronics were modified to command an immediate pop-up after low-level launch to provide a dive attack on the target radar.

 

Although the resulting capability was vulnerable to countermeasures and rather limited compared to more robust anti-radar missiles such as HARM , it does provide a useful self-defense capability against low-level anti-helicopter threats such as the ZSU-23 or SA-8.

 

http://www.ausairpower.net/TE-Sidewinder-94.html

 

Will this missile be implemented for the AV-8?

 

Yes some screen shots of it in the AV8 thread.

[Bacab]

Modifications developed at the China Lake Naval Weapons Center and produced by Motorola included improved semi-active seeker electronics to provide coverage of the greater bandwidth required to home in on a range of air defense radars. The AIM-9C's original Mk.17 motor and WDU-17 warhead were retained, with the substitution of a DSU-15 active fuse. Control electronics were modified to command an immediate pop-up after low-level launch to provide a dive attack on the target radar.

 

Although the resulting capability was vulnerable to countermeasures and rather limited compared to more robust anti-radar missiles such as HARM , it does provide a useful self-defense capability against low-level anti-helicopter threats such as the ZSU-23 or SA-8.

 

http://www.ausairpower.net/TE-Sidewinder-94.html

 

 

 

Yes some screen shots of it in the AV8 thread.

It doesn't answer the question :)

[fixen]

I've done some reading and all I can find is that it is a broadband seeker, which implies that it can scan different bandwiths.

The weapons locks onto a emission source and the locked target is displayed on the HUD and a tone is generated. I've also read that the weapon can be put in a certain mode that it will automatically fire when it detects a radar source. This is used when running in on ground targets and will automatically fire to supress (kill) the airdefense.

Furthermore it has a loft mode, but i'm not to sure about how it works.

[sirscorpion]

It doesn't answer the question :)

 

Nope but its close as i could get "trust me searched for this on line for a long time"

 

But using a method of deduction, it uses the same missile rail as the AIm9, "LAU-7 (Series) Guided Missile Launcher " and since you can not send complex data to the LAU-7 then one can assume it had a standard seeker.

 

http://www.courses.netc.navy.mil/courses/14014A/14014A_ch9.pdf <<page 9-47

 

The other part is that FCS radar bands are different from EW radars for example.

 

Taking that and the fact that it can engage Shilkas "which have a J band radar" and OSA SA-8 which also has a "J Band engagement antenna" and a H band surveillance antenna.

 

we can pretty much confirm that it can engage stuff in the J and H band, which will also include the I band radars as wel:

 

~I Band used by SA-3/SA-2 SNR-125 "Low Blow FC radar" "also D band

~Tors "H band radar"also has a G/K

~early S-300 used H

 

So pretty much any FC radar in the J band, IF it can also hit the H band then it can also shoot at I bands.

 

This however is a huge difference as most H/I bands are for detection while J is for FC, it means a big difference in operation, In other words if its only the "Confirmed" J band it means that you need to get that radar to emit, in others words be locked by it.

 

However the wording in all "little" information i could find was that the old AIm9c seeker was modified for a wider band of radars, so basically my assumption is that it can get to the J/I/H band of radars.

Edited March 10, 2017 by sirscorpion

[Bacab]

Furthermore it has a loft mode, but i'm not to sure about how it works.

From what I could gather the missile will enter a steep climb as soon as it's fired and then it will dive on the emitter. Since I don't think it can reacquire it's original target should the lock be broken I think the climb angle would be limited by the FOV of the seeker.

 

Nope but its close as i could get "trust me searched for this on line for a long time"

I understand.

[Zeus67]

Will this missile be implemented for the AV-8?

 

Yes, it will be. In fact we have a prototype defined but requires testing.

[sirscorpion]

Yes, it will be. In fact we have a prototype defined but requires testing.

 

[ESAc_matador]

Just a question for razbam team. Will it be released in the first version of the module? Or will have to wait updates?

 

 

I am doing a Wild weasel team now!

[Schmidtfire]

That auto-fire mode fixen wrote about would be really cool if it was ever implemented on the Av8b system IRL. Imagine going in for a bombing run, pipper on target and totally concentrated, when suddenly an AGM-122 fly from the rails to take out an unnoticed Shilka :)

[ESAc_matador]

Wow! Indidnt know that system!

 

 

It will be quite easy to make a script so enemy SAMs shut down when you fire.

 

I hope they take into account that if this happens, the missile goes balistic! Sonyou can use itnas deterrant!

[jojo]

I've done some reading and all I can find is that it is a broadband seeker, which implies that it can scan different bandwiths.

The weapons locks onto a emission source and the locked target is displayed on the HUD and a tone is generated. I've also read that the weapon can be put in a certain mode that it will automatically fire when it detects a radar source. This is used when running in on ground targets and will automatically fire to supress (kill) the airdefense.

Furthermore it has a loft mode, but i'm not to sure about how it works.

 

mmmh, I don't know if it's really auto-fire (which would surprise me) or something like HARM "Self Protect" mode:

https://forums.vrsimulations.com/sup..._.28SP.29_Mode

 

When a threat is detected, no matter what the current master mode is, the missile is locked on threat radar, and the weapon system switch to HARM mode. The pilot just have to press the trigger to shoot.

 

May I ask where you read about this "auto-firing" mode ?

 

And the loft mode may be necessary when used at low altitude to prevent the missile from hitting obstacle on missile's flight path.

Edited March 17, 2017 by jojo

[jojo]

Wow! Indidnt know that system!

 

 

It will be quite easy to make a script so enemy SAMs shut down when you fire.

 

I hope they take into account that if this happens, the missile goes balistic! Sonyou can use itnas deterrant!

 

Be careful what you wish for :smilewink:

 

This game had this SAM on/ off feature:

http://www.gamershell.com/pc/f_a_18_operation_iraqi_freedom/box.html

 

It was almost impossible to destroy a SAM with AGM-88...

[GGTharos]

You don't need to .. that's what SEAD's all about. If they're not turning their radars on, or aren't able to keep them long enough, you're bombing stuff and there's nothing they can do about it.

 

As far as the AGM-122 goes, it's intended use seems relatively clear from old military documents:

 

"At thesmall end is the 200-pound AGM-122A Sidearm. Sidearm is actually a modified AIM-9C Sidewinder designed for short range use against such J-band threats as the ZSU-23-4"

 

AFAIK this weapon was carried but possibly never used in practice.

[Zeus67]

You don't need to .. that's what SEAD's all about. If they're not turning their radars on, or aren't able to keep them long enough, you're bombing stuff and there's nothing they can do about it.

 

As far as the AGM-122 goes, it's intended use seems relatively clear from old military documents:

 

"At thesmall end is the 200-pound AGM-122A Sidearm. Sidearm is actually a modified AIM-9C Sidewinder designed for short range use against such J-band threats as the ZSU-23-4"

 

AFAIK this weapon was carried but possibly never used in practice.

 

They were used since all missiles were expended and no new ones built.

[Buzzles]

AFAIK this weapon was carried but possibly never used in practice.

 

Au contraire! In practice is probably exactly where they used them :)

[jojo]

Missiles have expiry date...so you may have to withdraw them without firing !