Introducing the VKB-Sim ‘Modern Combat Grip’ (MCG)

[Bearfoot]

But put 4 way in the index finger is very uncomfortable

 

Works well enough for the F-35 ...

[Mars Exulte]

My source for the pinky and 4-way : the newsletter VKB sent out earlier today ;)

[Winston 60]

rrohde, do you think this grip will eventually be offered pre-installed on the Gladiator's and Gunfighter's? I found the VKB device config software impossible to use and could not get a Cougar grip adapted to a Gladiator Pro Mk. II base working at all. I think some proper English instructions for the device config software (not via translator) would be absolutely necessary for VKB to have to go along with these grips.

[Winston 60]

Newsflash: VKB is listening, and after some back and forth with Ilya he agrees now to include that pinky switch that we all (including me) want for the MCG.

 

Due to the design of the MCG, it might have to move up and to the side, but you will get that extra button on the grip!

 

Stay tuned for some updated renders soon !

That's great news. I'll buy one as soon as it comes pre-installed on a Gladiator or Gunfighter.

[Dudikoff]

Based on Reddit post the "pinky" switch will be added, and more 2 buttons (the 2 way switch on index will be 4 - like in F-35). :thumbup:

 

That would be awesome (I guess I wrongly assumed the design was already locked and ready for production). If they add the pinky button (which is a must for me), I'll definitely get one.

 

The 4-way hat for the index finger might be an overkill, but as it was already a two-way switch, adding extra up and down movement won't change the ergonomics, but will just add extra options.

 

Now, for that VKB EU page update..

Edited March 17, 2017 by Dudikoff

[rrohde]

rrohde, do you think this grip will eventually be offered pre-installed on the Gladiator's and Gunfighter's? I found the VKB device config software impossible to use and could not get a Cougar grip adapted to a Gladiator Pro Mk. II base working at all. I think some proper English instructions for the device config software (not via translator) would be absolutely necessary for VKB to have to go along with these grips.

 

Well, at this time, VKB only has the KG12 grip on hand, and is thus using those for the Glads and the Gunfighters.

 

I assume that maybe for the next batch the Gunfighter Mk.II and/or the Gladiator Mk.III will come with the current grip of choice at the time (might as well be the MCG).

 

Nothing wrong with the Gunfighter's initial offering, considering that you can swap out the grip for a TM Warthog or the MCG later. :)

[Winston 60]

...Nothing wrong with the Gunfighter's initial offering, considering that you can swap out the grip for a TM Warthog or the MCG later. :)

Exactly, and perhaps VKB or some user can/will develop more comprehensive instructions for the device config software on how to make the TM grips actually work! I think when the Gunfighter buyers start attaching their TM grips the need for better documentation will become more apparent. :joystick:

[dburne]

Exactly, and perhaps VKB or some user can/will develop more comprehensive instructions for the device config software on how to make the TM grips actually work! I think when the Gunfighter buyers start attaching their TM grips the need for better documentation will become more apparent. :joystick:

 

I sure hope it is not too complicated ( for my feeble mind) to get the new grip offering working with the Gunfighter base. Plug and play would be even sweeter.

[aaron886]

That's great news. I'll buy one as soon as it comes pre-installed on a Gladiator or Gunfighter.

 

Won't it use their quick connect system? It should be easy to purchase a Base-only Gunfighter and a separate MCG... all you need to do is click them together or something like that. Right?

[dburne]

Won't it use their quick connect system? It should be easy to purchase a Base-only Gunfighter and a separate MCG... all you need to do is click them together or something like that. Right?

 

Not if you have to change the device software/firmware, which it kind of sounds like. Some folks have struggled with that previously on some of their other sticks I think.

[rrohde]

Updating firmware via Bootloader and loading a Profile via VKBdfvCfg is rather simple, trust me (did it many times for my Mamba Mk.III). The only thing "struggle-worthy" are the more advanced features, since the dev config is rather in-depth (far too complex for my simple and basic needs, as I assign every button, switch and dial within DCS anyway). :)

[rrohde]

Won't it use their quick connect system? It should be easy to purchase a Base-only Gunfighter and a separate MCG... all you need to do is click them together or something like that. Right?

 

Yep - starting with the Glad Pro MkII and Gunfighter, a quick connect system is in place to swap grips easily.

[dburne]

Updating firmware via Bootloader and loading a Profile via VKBdfvCfg is rather simple, trust me (did it many times for my Mamba Mk.III). The only thing "struggle-worthy" are the more advanced features, since the dev config is rather in-depth (far too complex for my simple and basic needs, as I assign every button, switch and dial within DCS anyway). :)

 

That is good to know as I assign everything in the DCS GUI as well. As long as I can easily get it set up where the game recognizes all the buttons I will be good to go.

[Winston 60]

Won't it use their quick connect system? It should be easy to purchase a Base-only Gunfighter and a separate MCG... all you need to do is click them together or something like that. Right?

Installing one of their own grips should be even easier than installing a TM grip using the VKB adapter. It's the use of the device config software that was the problem for me. Better/proper English instructions are sorely needed to ensure you get the correct profile and flash it correctly. Instructions to do this that are created with translator software leaves the 'lost in translation' problems that there are now.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Winston 60

[Barefoot Bandit]

Is there a way to actually purchase a Warthog grip - do TM sell them stand alone as "parts" or something?, on it's own, in any way? Just thinking I'd like to standardise my set ups (I have two) and not have to re-learn everything each time I change rigs.

 

ie - I want gunfighter bases and warthog grips for both my rigs, I only have one Warthog right now.

 

Z...

[dburne]

Is there a way to actually purchase a Warthog grip - do TM sell them stand alone as "parts" or something?

 

Don't think so - in that case maybe best bet is to find someone selling a used one on Ebay or somewhere that maybe has a bad gimbal.

[Barefoot Bandit]

Don't think so - in that case maybe best bet is to find someone selling a used one on Ebay or somewhere that maybe has a bad gimbal.

 

Fair enough, worth a shot...

 

 

Z...

[Slugtastic]

Any updates on when they ship out?

[rrohde]

Any updates on when they ship out?

 

The MCG should ship at the end of May, beginning of June, 2017.

[rrohde]

From an email:

 

Yeah, pretty bummed about this myself. Hate having to break this to you, but that's the latest news from VKB HQ. Kinda sad when some other supplier 'drops the ball' and things get delayed... :cry:

[Vivoune]

It's an awesome design. There are still a few things that I'd like changed before parting with my warthog grip.

 

1 - A metal version, or at the very least a dual stage metal trigger. (It is so hard to get back to plastic after the warthog). Especially in the VKB's price ranges. A future "metal housing upgrade kit" would be lovely.

 

2- I would leave the 'finger index' button on the top side a 2 way button, but instead would bring a quality clickable 4 way hat (analogue or digital) on the thumb button in the middle of the stick (instead of the simple push button).

 

 

Using my experience with the Warthog it won't be practical and precise at all to use a 4 way switch at the tip of the finger all the way 'up there', a simple push button is troublesome already. The index has to leave the trigger and force the whole wrist to twist, forcing an uncomfortable change of grip. That means the whole hand not only has to loose its grip (troublesome while pitching up) but also has to stop and dedicate solely to the finger index operation, thus I reckon it'll be mostly impractical no matter the hand size considering the issue is based on the low lateral amplitude of the index finger, as opposed to the thumb.

 

While using a pushable 4 way hat under the thumb at the middle of the stick is natural, intuitive, easy, allows for precise control and doesn't dedicate the whole hand to its operation. Particularly because your thumb can easily and naturally stay and rest on top of the button or very close to it when not using other hats just like it can easily travel between the top and middle hats without bothering the whole hand and/or other fingers (unlike the index). :thumbup:

 

That said, the analogue brake lever and the two 8 way clickable hat switches that can be toggled as 2 axis analogues hats are an incredibly strong argument for that stick and might win me over should they be quality buttons (clear distinction between all 8 positions, being able to push it without accidentally go in one direction, smooth and precise analogue operation).

 

I might jump on a gunfighter base in the coming weeks (if they ever get sold in Europe at a reasonable price?) just to enjoy that stick (should it get for sale in Europe too).

Edited March 22, 2017 by Vivoune

[Bourrinopathe]

I'd also like to have a 4-way clickable switch under the thumb.

It would be very comfortable to control the CMs or any semi-essential systems (flight sim/space sim).

 

The MCG general design is heavily inspired from the Su-35/PAK FA grip while offering some versatility, and the Russian controls/HOTAS tend to keep things simple and focused on the essential controls (not the F-35 HOTAS complexity - but both aircraft systems are also obviously different).

Afaik, that push button under the thumb on the Su-35 grip is to cancel a task (сброс задачи) (whatever that means). Quick action.

That's also why I'm not inclined to use a 4-way clickable side hat with my index extended (less dexterity than the thumb with the lateral movements).

It's just a guess, but I think the side switch on the Su-35 grip is a missile type/mode selector (WVR/BVR or IR/RDR) (labeled РК (ракета?)).

 

Dumb-proof controls can be life saving in tense situations. But we're only using simulators so maybe more options can be good.

 

-----

 

Here's a reference I made a while ago (pseudo-translated from the known Russian picture), but I'm absolutely not sure about some of the controls:

Edited March 22, 2017 by Bourrinopathe
experimental picture ;)

[tifafan]

Is the key travel of the weapon release bottom more similar to a Warthog release bottom or the grip Black Mamba MKII and MKI use??

[AegisFX]

Hmm. If we could get that index switch a 4 way and the thumb switch a 4 way +1 like the TMWH, I'd honestly love that. Mmmmm

[Sokol1_br]

I find curious you guys that own a Warthog and want a new and different design to replicate... Warthog functions. :)

 

For me this side single button is a appeal, ideal for fire cannon in WWII planes (in these I find dual trigger useless) without disturb joystick balance like if use one on top of grip. Why I prefer use Combatstick instead a FighterStick (have both).

 

This T-50 show a good balance between press buttons and HAT, instead prioritize HAT's like in F-16'ish grips.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Sokol1_br
mistype