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Introducing the VKB-Sim ‘Modern Combat Grip’ (MCG)


rrohde

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And why all joysticks need be "like a Warthog"?

If Warthog is "perfect" why people need buy other joystick?

 

This foldable trigger is secondary, most virpilot don't has use for this, and for one that will have use, e.g. Ka-50 "pilot" the second button will be more useful than "click" sound. ;)

 

Using MCG in TmW base, the brake handle axis will send only a button press - since TmW don't support extra axis - and will not make "click".


Edited by Sokol1_br
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And why all joysticks need be "like a Warthog"?

If Warthog is "perfect" why people need buy other joystick?

 

 

Oh the Warthog is far from perfect, in particular the gimbal system which is why I have the Gunfighter on order. However TM did a pretty good job with the grip design of the Warthog - having said that though I am certainly going to try the new MCG grip as soon as it is available to order, probably won't even use the Gunfighter until I have that grip for it.

 

We're just providing feedback base on things we have liked about hardware we have used.

I guess we will always be searching for the ultimate in a stick and throttle. :joystick:

Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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And why all joysticks need be "like a Warthog"?

If Warthog is "perfect" why people need buy other joystick?

 

Come on, now. The HW has some great features! No one else produced such a good throttle when it was released, for example. People just want to keep the good features when they upgrade. This extends to both hardware choices and the real A-10C's design that they emulated.

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T.16000M base and top buttons don't use micro-swtiches, but rubber membranes like in gamepads, so don't make 'click" and people live with this.

 

In the 'heart of battle" one using headphones will don't hear trigger clicks over engine/rotor sounds. :)

 

The proper feedback for trigger working is the ordnance flying in direction of target. ;)

 

BTW - People complain that VKB Gladiator trigger and "Eject" button click is too "loud".

 

Imho, it's not about the sound but the tactile/mechanical feel. The noticeable snapping feel when a button is activated. That's a great way to know the command has been sent, and if nothing happens, you know something's wrong - not that your device might be faulty.

 

For example, both triggers on the Black Mamba/Cobra grip use snap-action micro-switches - a very clever choice (imo).

On the other hand, sometimes I'm struggling with my X55 throttle as I don't know if a button has been pressed. Of course it also depends on the buttons quality.

The Gladiator buttons feel nice and the trigger also has that "clicky" feel to it. I can understand why some users don't like the sound though. Playing with a headset helps, I guess.

 

In any case, any HOTAS should be as reliable as possible and I'm convinced an appropriate tactile/mechanical feedback is really important.

 

The X55 throttle buttons lacks that kind of reliability so hard that it makes me want to squeeze its little neck until its eyes pop-out :D (sorry for the nasty picture - but that's how bad it feels)

 

I really hope the MCG will get that right and I'm confident it will.


Edited by Bourrinopathe

/// ВКБ: GF Pro MkII+MCG Pro/GF MkII+SCG L/Black Mamba MkIII/Gladiator/T-Rudder MkII | X-55 Rhino throttle/Saitek Throttle Quadrant | OpenTrack+UTC /// ZULU +4 ///

/// "THE T3ASE": i9 9900K | 64 GB DDR4 | RTX 2080ti OC | 2 TB NVMe SSDs, 1 TB SATA SSD, 12 TB HDDs | Gigabyte DESIGNARE mobo ///

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When will the grip to TMWH base adapter be available?

 

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Know and use all the capabilities in your airplane. If you don't, sooner or later, some guy who does use them all will kick your ass.

 

— Dave 'Preacher' Pace, USN.

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They don't need to be like the Warthog (and it is good that they are not), but the Warthog is the benchmark, just about anyone that knows what HOTAS means knows what a Warthog looks like. Thus, everything will be judged against it - for better or worse.

 

Personally, like anything, it has it's pro and cons.

 

Z...

 

And why all joysticks need be "like a Warthog"?

If Warthog is "perfect" why people need buy other joystick?

 

This foldable trigger is secondary, most virpilot don't has use for this, and for one that will have use, e.g. Ka-50 "pilot" the second button will be more useful than "click" sound. ;)

 

Using MCG in TmW base, the brake handle axis will send only a button press - since TmW don't support extra axis - and will not make "click".

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They don't need to be like the Warthog (and it is good that they are not), but the Warthog is the benchmark, just about anyone that knows what HOTAS means knows what a Warthog looks like. Thus, everything will be judged against it - for better or worse.

 

Personally, like anything, it has it's pro and cons.

 

Z...

 

It's certainly an exciting time to be a sim pilot. VKB (and BRD etc.) are giving us peripherals that are between the Warthog, and the mil grade hardware that is in the multi-thousands of dollars, and not publicly accessible.

 

It's nice to see the bar finally being raised, and at a time when sim software is having a resurgence.

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I find they added standalone housing base of gunfighter at their production list page right now. it's 259 usd...

and this grip is 99 usd, so the modern grip stick is 358 usd of all.

hope we can have the modern throttle for the complete set.

it's such a long time from 2014 to now.

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It's certainly an exciting time to be a sim pilot. VKB (and BRD etc.) are giving us peripherals that are between the Warthog, and the mil grade hardware that is in the multi-thousands of dollars, and not publicly accessible.

 

It's nice to see the bar finally being raised, and at a time when sim software is having a resurgence.

 

Amen to that. Personally, I'm glad for the choice, and it's good to know I can buy hardware that is likely to last a decade or more.

 

The BRD F3 is a beast, and my VKB T-rudder 3 is a perfect example of a quality product at a reasonable cost. I truly love them both! I do think the smartest thing Virpil have done is to use the some din connector as the Warthog, kinda wish VKB had done this, too, but regardless, the high end world is truly looking good, it seems I came back to sims at the right time. The last sim I played properly was Falcon on the Atari ST, and Gunship was the last chopper sim... There's been some change!

 

I find they added standalone housing base of gunfighter at their production list page right now. it's 259 usd...

and this grip is 99 usd, so the modern grip stick is 358 usd of all.

hope we can have the modern throttle for the complete set.

it's such a long time from 2014 to now.

 

 

It's been a long time coming, but... If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. And I think they are doing everything they can to ensure it is done right. We're almost there!!!

 

 

Z...


Edited by Barefoot Bandit
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Seems the polemic "non tactile" trigger in the SECONDARY foldable trigger will by implemented. Let's see the result.

 

Redesigned trigger hinged on contactless technology.

 

Regarding the "CTR" trigger. Here is the answer of one of the front-line pilots:

 

"On the button. It does not feel depressed as through the trigger, just bouncy course. You can not hear anything, because you sit in ZS where the noise from the radio, from the operation of systems and engines a little ZSh breaks, so that there are no clicks. Equally think for all types, at least that I exploited. Moreover, simultaneously with the touch almost going missile launch, and there is no time of listening))))). "

 


Edited by Sokol1_br
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So some people (and VKB?) are focusing on the sound it does? Not the tactile feel when you press the button?

 

(because it's rather obvious a real (fighter) pilot won't ear (and refer to) any *click* *click* *click* sound with the helmet, radio, engine, etc.) :doh:

(even so, a home flight simulator has different requirements and considerations, ergonomics environment, etc.)


Edited by Bourrinopathe

/// ВКБ: GF Pro MkII+MCG Pro/GF MkII+SCG L/Black Mamba MkIII/Gladiator/T-Rudder MkII | X-55 Rhino throttle/Saitek Throttle Quadrant | OpenTrack+UTC /// ZULU +4 ///

/// "THE T3ASE": i9 9900K | 64 GB DDR4 | RTX 2080ti OC | 2 TB NVMe SSDs, 1 TB SATA SSD, 12 TB HDDs | Gigabyte DESIGNARE mobo ///

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Seems the polemic "non tactile" trigger in the SECONDARY foldable trigger will by implemented. Let's see the result.

 

Tactile doesn't mean audible. An audible click isn't important, it's the tactile feel that matters. That haptic feedback that you can feel in your finger and hand sending you a clear message that the button has been pushed, that the signal has been sent.

 

Imho it's an important part of connecting the man to the machine, especially for simulators where we can't feel any guns/weapon release vibrations. Personally I think it's more improtant to have tactile feedback on a trigger rather than a foldable trigger button for weapon safety measures in a simulator. But that's just me.

 

Does the foldable trigger in the real aircraft has haptic feedback or not? (I can't say I've had the pleasure to be in a Ka-50 in real life :))


Edited by Vivoune
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Well, is their purposed option, a foldable "contactless" trigger that can mimic Ka-50 real trigger operation, or leave the traditional one "clicking" button and people continue press "C" on keyboard for "simulating" their folding operation.

 

The option is not install two conventional micro-switches or other clicking device there, maybe due lack of space and/or because will increase production price and MSRP price.

 

Anyway, if this issue became "the end of the world" next year they can revert this in version Mk. II. :D


Edited by Sokol1_br
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Well, is their purposed option, a foldable "contactless" trigger that can mimic Ka-50 real trigger operation, or leave the traditional one "clicking" button and people continue press "C" on keyboard for "simulating" their folding operation.

 

I didn't really understand what the VKB will go for. The secondary trigger will be foldable? Will the folding/unfolding be recognized as a separate button than pressing the secondary trigger or it's just a gimmick?

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The secondary trigger - the one ahead and at right of MCG grip, is foldable like in Aviaavtomatika T-50 grip installed in Sukhoi T-50 demonstrator cockpits, on which the MCG grip design was based, when trigger is not in use can be folded up for "safety" position.

 

work.018.3.jpg?nh7m2s

 

VKB purpose make this folding/unfolding action press other DX button in their MCG grip, be using in this trigger a contactless axis, so trigger can press buttons when moved up or pressed back (like conventional triggers) - but this at cost of the "mouse click" feedback of domestic joystick trigger.

 

This move up/down press button has use for DCS Ka-50 for simulate their fire rockets and missiles trigger - theoretically too in DCS Bf 109 K-4 (and Mig-15) for fold KG-12B trigger for fire position, although this secondary trigger position in MCG grip not be practical for fire guns/cannons in dogfights.


Edited by Sokol1_br
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Iirc, the foldable trigger is also used in the Su-27 to switch to the cannon mode, changing the symbology on the HUD (and perhaps the slaved OLS tracking, I can't remember).

Definitely useful and usable for different simulations, space sim included.

 

I would also love to test a thumb trackball on the grip and on the throttle. But it's probably more appropriate for the R&D department, than for a final consumer product. Evolution is a very slow process ;)

On the other hand, I think Clould Imperium (Star Citizen) was planning to get some trackballs on their dedicated controllers/HOTAS in collaboration with Saitek. There are some renders somewhere. (sometimes you can enforce evolution too !)

/// ВКБ: GF Pro MkII+MCG Pro/GF MkII+SCG L/Black Mamba MkIII/Gladiator/T-Rudder MkII | X-55 Rhino throttle/Saitek Throttle Quadrant | OpenTrack+UTC /// ZULU +4 ///

/// "THE T3ASE": i9 9900K | 64 GB DDR4 | RTX 2080ti OC | 2 TB NVMe SSDs, 1 TB SATA SSD, 12 TB HDDs | Gigabyte DESIGNARE mobo ///

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The secondary trigger - the one ahead and at right of MCG grip, is foldable like in Aviaavtomatika T-50 grip installed in Sukhoi T-50 demonstrator cockpits, on which the MCG grip design was based, when trigger is not in use can be folded up for "safety" position.

 

VKB purpose make this folding/unfolding action press other DX button in their MCG grip, be using in this trigger a contactless axis, so trigger can press buttons when moved up or pressed back (like conventional triggers) - but this at cost of the "mouse click" feedback of domestic joystick trigger.

 

Yeah, I know about the folding secondary trigger concept, but I was curious if folding will be registered by the VKB grip or it's just a gimmick. Sounds pretty cool; if it works with the TM base as well, I'll definitely have to get one grip. Thanks for the info.


Edited by Dudikoff

i386DX40@42 MHz w/i387 CP, 4 MB RAM (8*512 kB), Trident 8900C 1 MB w/16-bit RAMDAC ISA, Quantum 340 MB UDMA33, SB 16, DOS 6.22 w/QEMM + Win3.11CE, Quickshot 1btn 2axis, Numpad as hat. 2 FPH on a good day, 1 FPH avg.

 

DISCLAIMER: My posts are still absolutely useless. Just finding excuses not to learn the F-14 (HB's Swansong?).

 

Annoyed by my posts? Please consider donating. Once the target sum is reached, I'll be off to somewhere nice I promise not to post from. I'd buy that for a dollar!

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rrhode,

 

Do you anticipate the delays in the Gunfighter stick will also create delays in the production of this new MCG?

Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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rrhode,

 

Do you anticipate the delays in the Gunfighter stick will also create delays in the production of this new MCG?

 

No - the delays encountered with the Gunfighter's PCB supplier is very specific to that one product and shouldn't affect anything else.

PC: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X | MSI Suprim GeForce 3090 TI | ASUS Prime X570-P | 128GB DDR4 3600 RAM | 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD | Win10 Pro 64bit

Gear: HP Reverb G2 | JetPad FSE | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk.III w/ MCG Ultimate

 

VKBNA_LOGO_SM.png

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Yeah, I know about the folding secondary trigger concept, but I was curious if folding will be registered by the VKB grip or it's just a gimmick. Sounds pretty cool; if it works with the TM base as well, I'll definitely have to get one grip. Thanks for the info.

 

Well, when you flip it up it registers a button press that you can assign to anything you want from within the VKBdevCfg software. :)

PC: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X | MSI Suprim GeForce 3090 TI | ASUS Prime X570-P | 128GB DDR4 3600 RAM | 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD | Win10 Pro 64bit

Gear: HP Reverb G2 | JetPad FSE | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk.III w/ MCG Ultimate

 

VKBNA_LOGO_SM.png

VKBcontrollers.com

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I only wanna know one thing, rrohde....

 

 

What about this modern throttle unit you mentioned in the emails? And when will there be another production run of sticks? And why do hot dogs come in packages of ten but buns come in packages of eight? Ok, that's more than one thing, but this is the Internet, you should expect this sort of thing.

Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

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