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F-15 still pulling 14G with two bags and no damage


JunMcKill

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Why would ED restrict one airframe in FC3 to this while the others don't have such restrictions.

 

Hyperbole & Conspiracy theory? Really? Not only are you (and others) asserting that the Eagle is broken beyond all belief, you are also claiming that it is intentionaly broken or at the very least it isn't being fixed, because of some kind of bias Eagle Dynamics supposedly has for Eagle drivers.

 

If it wasn't so sad, this thread would be hilarious.

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Guys, nobody reasonable on either side is saying the Eagle shouldn't break apart at a certain point (probably 13-14G,) so many of you are arguing with imaginary opposition. I fly the Eagle almost exclusively in PVP and I would be 100% fine with this change; anything to improve the realism of FC3 is great IMO.

 

The point the Eagle guys are making is that nowhere in our real world fpight envelope do we come anywhere close to that level of G, so the proposed changes would actually make no difference to how we fly and fight, so while it's important fix for realism's sake, the real world implications are minimal, and that's why it's not as big of a deal as it's been made out to be.

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Hyperbole & Conspiracy theory? Really? Not only are you (and others) asserting that the Eagle is broken beyond all belief, you are also claiming that it is intentionaly broken or at the very least it isn't being fixed, because of some kind of bias Eagle Dynamics supposedly has for Eagle drivers.

 

If it wasn't so sad, this thread would be hilarious.

 

Intentionally? broken? bias? Not only did I not say any of that you totally don't grasp the point made but instead try and make out I've just typed something that is not fact.

That is text book straw man.

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It would affect in the sense that people would probably be forced to remember to throw bags away before pulling 10 G maneuvers. In hindsight of last red flag, no offense, but I kind of facepalmed how many people merged with bags on despite those being most certainly completely empty, and then continue to fight for multiple minutes that way.

 

I had a short go in SP and I was not able to produce more than 12G sustained in transsonic turns. Every now and then in vertical maneuvers at the apex of the turn it would spike to 14G but only for a moment (tbh whether that spike is real or not is hard to say, would have to dig into deep stuff). In nose high reversals if you pull 12G you will GLOC and fly into space so it's not a commendable maneuver.

 

I'd also love to see those 12G barrel rolls tested against ER (preferably both with chaff and without), but the scenario is not easily reproducable without mutliplayer. I've known for a long time the 7 has a weakness against stuff like that especially when shot from rear aspect.

 

IMO the complaint is a bit double edged that a bagged 15 can do this or that, because yes it might be ridiculous to pull 14G like that, but at the same time the extra weight and drag is so taxing in performance you should seriously question yourself if you ever lose a fight like that.

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Pretty sure the bags are 9g capable when empty...A 10g maneuver with a bag or two doesn't seem like an impossibility at all, IMO.

 

Think about all these RL overload incidents that guys like Tharos bring up sometimes - They're using the same bags we use and they're pulling 9 to 11g.

 

Edit: And if you have fuel in the bags, like that 3 bag F-15A did one time...Don't pull 9g. :)


Edited by Sweep

Lord of Salt

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The moral of the story is this:

 

If you have the airspeed to overstress the airframe to the point of (theoretical) failure, you're going too fast.

 

Corner speed + energy management > blindly pulling at insane speeds

DCS modules are built up to a spec, not down to a schedule.

 

In order to utilize a system to your advantage, you must know how it works.

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This is funny, how we go from "THE EAGLE IS PULLING 14G (in lag spikes)" to "THE EAGLE'S DAMAGE MODEL DOESN'T TRACK OVER-G YET!"

 

Nobody said they don't have a problem with the F-15 getting a damage model update that begins showing structural effects from over-G. What the conversation was, instead, was that the excursion as originally demonstrated originally needed to be explained.

 

And it was.

 

Ascertaining why something happens in a non-vacuum is separate from whether or not it is a first-order concern.

 

As to why ED would "restrict one plane and not others", now you're getting into the realm of data accessibility. Eagles have done 12+G without immediate issue. The aforementioned F-15 which hit 12.5 and was the downed permanently had repeated excursions to that area earlier.

 

Now, how do you balance that? It'll already withstand more than the Flanker in system, and the prevalence of effective OWS usage to optimize performance puts a damper on the immediacy.

 

So let's say the F-15 gets a progressive limit based around 12.5G- are the tears going to become that it remains more resistant than the Flanker, or are we going to migrate into more MP lag excursion complaints because what what the server reports isn't accurate to the flown model? Because if it does, it's going to simply prove this isn't an accuracy complaint, but a Red v. Blue complaint.

 

Me, I don't care either way, because I'm not someone that should be getting beat for not flying the numbers.

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You didn´t. But I won´t explain the joke.

 

I also never complained.

 

But to reiterate the joke:

 

 

 

 

And to think that doing high G barrel rolls does not give you a significant advantage in combat when it is literally the way to go to dodge ED missiles is hillarious. You see it all the time, with bags, with spikes up to 23Gs for whatever reason (be it lag or whatever you want to excuse it as), and you guys shrug saying "it can´t be used to your advantage so it doesn´t matter".

Every missile dodged in this video was dodged in the same manner. But yeah, sure, can´t be used. Not an advantage. Insignificant. Whatever you say.

 

Just thought of another one:

 

 

 

I´m just making sarcastic observations about the rethoric in this thread, man...no need to get all fanboy at me.

 

Fixing an overperforming flight model and imposing a damage model is not a high priority. A higher priority is fixing something that could make the Eagle lose.

 

 

:megalol: Absolutely! Theres some signifficant resemblence between north korea and ED. 3763E84700000578-0-image-m-15_1471599719704.jpg :megalol:

 

I approve this message! :thumbup:

 

I too approve this message :thumbup:

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Fixing an overperforming flight model and imposing a damage model is not a high priority. A higher priority is fixing something that could make the Eagle lose.

 

Allow me to restate what I said before regarding overstress:

 

If you are flying in a way that results in frequent, large excursions to more than 110% of the designed load factor, you are not using the Eagle to its full potential. You are much better off flying a bit slower and enjoying insane turn rates instead of huge G loads.

DCS modules are built up to a spec, not down to a schedule.

 

In order to utilize a system to your advantage, you must know how it works.

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The Eagle is subject to laws of physics as well and you shouldn't be able to keep pulling on the stick all day long without suffering the consequences.

 

From a competition perspective, it is a huge game changer and it's not fair to have someone flying cautiously to stay within tbe boundaries of the airframe while opponent enjoys total impunity.

This is in my opinion a critical issue in competitive environments thus needs immediate attention.

 

Saying that the Eagle underperdorms anyway when pushed beyond realistic limits is irrelevant in my opinion as outcome from overstressing the airframe should be much worse.

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The Eagle is subject to laws of physics as well and you shouldn't be able to keep pulling on the stick all day long without suffering the consequences.

 

From a competition perspective, it is a huge game changer and it's not fair to have someone flying cautiously to stay within tbe boundaries of the airframe while opponent enjoys total impunity.

This is in my opinion a critical issue in competitive environments thus needs immediate attention.

 

Saying that the Eagle underperdorms anyway when pushed beyond realistic limits is irrelevant in my opinion as outcome from overstressing the airframe should be much worse.

 

I also love missing the point.

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Given that this portion of the model doesn't seem to be getting addressed the question is ... is it affecting you in ways other than to make you jealous about it right now? :)

The next question is, if it was addressed, will you still be jealous when you find it won't be falling apart like a flanker anyway? :D

 

First of all this is a second grade argument. Are you gelous because my icecream is more advanced than yours. :D

 

Weren't you jelous enough to say Mig 21 kills vs F15 means nothing because of the mig missiles being crap + 20% compared to real life crap-10% performance.

 

These is what you said: "If you believe for a moment that you did something great by using a MiG-21 to shoot down a 'modern' fighter, let me divest you of that delusion right now" . Playing PC games no matter how realistic and pretending to be pilots is a "nice delusion" at it's core.And I'm not trying to be mean.

 

So even if it was insanely hard to get a kill in the mig21 you were trying to shame Mig21 pilots.Now when F15 airframe is invulnerable and Su27 missiles are unrealistic somehow it'still the mig pilot's fault for being jelous .

 

Well i guess there is a double standard used here.


Edited by otto
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Eagle pulling code 1's all day: Not an issue according to Boeing (that's somewhere up to 10g, BTW)

 

The Eagle is subject to laws of physics as well and you shouldn't be able to keep pulling on the stick all day long without suffering the consequences.

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Has anyone actually been shot down by anything doing 20g rolls lately? And if so.....how? I'd like to become skilled in the method if it gives such an advantage in battle!

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Has anyone actually broke down in pieces his Su-27 because over G? And if so..... why can the F-15 be handle carefree overstressing it all the time?

 

It´s not about shooting down, its about carefree handling.

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From a competition perspective, it is a huge game changer and it's not fair to have someone flying cautiously to stay within tbe boundaries of the airframe while opponent enjoys total impunity.

This is in my opinion a critical issue in competitive environments thus needs immediate attention.

especially because of the Flanker/Eagle long standing rivalry.

 

There's more to a simulator than airquake competitive gameplay...:doh:

Lord of Salt

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There's more to a simulator than airquake competitive gameplay...:doh:

 

But, when Eage touch the limits airquake will stop and sim can go start with full consuming. (if i`m understand you corectly)

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Yes :D

 

Just kidding.

 

I meant that the issue needs to be viewed from a perspective of what is realistic - Not "What balances my part of the simulator"

 

There's two other things, as well: What can be modeled? What is useful to model?

 

BST will do what they can, I'm sure.

Lord of Salt

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