Air to air gun pipper update rate

[lemoen]

Hi All,

 

I've noticed that when I'm trying to engage a target with the gun, the gun pipper initially (or beyond a certain range) has a very low update rate, like twice per second, when I get closer, it starts updating continuously. I have the target hard locked so its not due to track while scan updates just being slow.

 

Is this the correct behaviour? Should the pipper not update continuously when it is hard locked , since the pipper is showing range and hard locking means the radar is following that target only and can continuously update the range info?

[lemoen]

Bump.

[myHelljumper]

The range is the pipper, the snake is the flight path of the bullets.

 

The snake represent the position of the bullets after a certain amount of time. The snake is not predictive, it shows where the bullet would have hit if you fired them one time of flight ago.

Everywhere on the snake it takes one time of flight to update, so close to the bore-sight it's almost instantaneous, but at max range it will a bit of time.

[lemoen]

I get that, but the pipper appears and updates so slowly that in most cases it doesn't even show up before the fight's over (mostly because my gun ammo is gone or I'm dead). Surely that range pipper should update smoothly, many times per second, if the target is hard locked?

[myHelljumper]

I get that, but the pipper appears and updates so slowly that in most cases it doesn't even show up before the fight's over (mostly because my gun ammo is gone or I'm dead). Surely that range pipper should update smoothly, many times per second, if the target is hard locked?

 

As I said the pipper is only range and is tied to the snake, the snake update speed is the same if you have a lock or not.

Practice more, it's very hard to use but very precise :).

[lemoen]

This is the problem, its not like I'm unable to hit someone with guns, the pipper is literally not there and I'm wondering if this is correct. I don't have 5 or 10 seconds to carefully line up and wait for the pipper to appear. People don't like being fired at ;-)

 

I'll do some tests. At the moment the air-to-air gun sight is practically useless, all my MP kills have been done without it, just judging by eye, where in the F15, say, the gun sight is pretty useful.

[myHelljumper]

This is the problem, its not like I'm unable to hit someone with guns, the pipper is literally not there and I'm wondering if this is correct. I don't have 5 or 10 seconds to carefully line up and wait for the pipper to appear. People don't like being fired at ;-)

 

I'll do some tests. At the moment the air-to-air gun sight is practically useless, all my MP kills have been done without it, just judging by eye, where in the F15, say, the gun sight is pretty useful.

 

The F-15 pipper is predictive, the 2000 one is not.

 

You have to shot one time of flight before the pipper intersect the target.

It's the same method used in the F-16.

 

It is not useless if you know how to use it :).

 

I don't know how the F-15 pipper work but I suspect a bit of magic is behind it ;).

[jojo]

What you're describing makes no sense to me. Please provide a track or video of what you think is the problem.

 

When you select the gun the snake appears.

To have the pipper you need to have radar lock on the target.

[lemoen]

What you're describing makes no sense to me. Please provide a track or video of what you think is the problem.

 

When you select the gun the snake appears.

To have the pipper you need to have radar lock on the target.

 

 

Will do. It is possible that I'm 'in firing position' while the target is further than 1000m from me and the pipper is MIA because I'm too far. I do clearly recall that the pipper is very jerky and slow to update until some requirement is met, maybe range or something. I'll make a track.

[jojo]

Yep, 1000m is far, so the pipper would be down the snake, especially if you're pulling some G.

[microvax]

I have no problem with it, what jojo and helijumper are saying is correct though.

 

Its a history gunsight, the pipper display where a imaginary bulletstream would intersect the range the target is from you.

 

So if you pull in at high G while switching to guns, the bullet stream will intersect the range outside your HUD at first, untill the bullets of the imaginary bulletstream are reaching the target range inside your HUD, which is when the pipper on the snake would come into view.

 

Sounds like you are describing that, which would be the correct way of working to my knowledge.

[lemoen]

Hmmm. OK. I misused it then. Will try again.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jojo]

He is pulling G and closing the target, look how the gun pipper moves up the snake.

When he is firing just above 300m pulling between 6 to 7G.

 

The snake is an help, what really matters when the radar is locked is to put the pipper on target's trajectory (it doesn't matter if the target trajectory is crossing the snake perpendicularly = most extreme case) , and pull the trigger just before the pipper meet the target.

 

However if you manage to maneuver to put the target's trajectory along the snake it's easier.

As the range closes the pipper moves up, when the range increase the pipper move down.

Of course pitch input have an effect too. But as I said, just before pipper meets the target (pipper moving up or down toward the target), pull the trigger.

 

The third case, and the more difficult to achieve is the "tracking shot" = you manage to keep the pipper on target long enough (like 1 seconds or more) and pull the trigger. The target will likely receive the full burst rather than a few shell.

 

May the Force be with you :thumbup:

Edited May 23, 2017 by jojo

[Xxx]

Hi All,

 

I've noticed that when I'm trying to engage a target with the gun, the gun pipper initially (or beyond a certain range) has a very low update rate, like twice per second, when I get closer, it starts updating continuously. I have the target hard locked so its not due to track while scan updates just being slow.

 

Is this the correct behaviour? Should the pipper not update continuously when it is hard locked , since the pipper is showing range and hard locking means the radar is following that target only and can continuously update the range info?

 

The pipper and snake are a little "jittery". Must be linked to the frame rate?

 

The key things I use are the guns’ boresight. It is placed on the conjunction of the HUD centerline and the aircraft’s waterline. Its called the gun cross by some air forces. The sight has a max range of 200 meters. That's where the cannon rounds will be at 200 meters, that's there time of flight position. Any further distance and gravity, friction , "ballistics" will conspire to rob you of a hit! Whites of the eyes job!

 

If you are using radar and your target has radar lock, the wingspan markers, on the snake, are replaced by the radar gun piper. The radar gun piper makes the gunnery easier by indicating the place in the gun snake where a hit is certain. You only have to put your target on the spot in the snake marked by the radar gun piper. This is where a fast update of the radar pipper is needed! If it's slow and jittery, by the time you have squeezed the trigger the bandit has moved!:cry:

 

So I use the old adage, wait until you see the whites of the eyes then put the gun cross on him and let him have it!

 

Tally Ho!:D

Edited May 23, 2017 by Accipiter
Typo

[myHelljumper]

The pipper and snake are a little "jittery". Must be linked to the frame rate?

 

The key things I use are the guns’ boresight. It is placed on the conjunction of the HUD centerline and the aircraft’s waterline. Its called the gun cross by some air forces. The sight has a max range of 200 meters. That's where the cannon rounds will be at 200 meters, that's there time of flight position. Any further distance and gravity, friction , "ballistics" will conspire to rob you of a hit! Whites of the eyes job!

 

If you are using radar and your target has radar lock, the wingspan markers, on the snake, are replaced by the radar gun piper. The radar gun piper makes the gunnery easier by indicating the place in the gun snake where a hit is certain. You only have to put your target on the spot in the snake marked by the radar gun piper. This is where a fast update of the radar pipper is needed! If it's slow and jittery, by the time you have squeezed the trigger the bandit has moved!:cry:

 

So I use the old adage, wait until you see the whites of the eyes then put the gun cross on him and let him have it!

 

Tally Ho!:D

 

As I said before the pipper is not predictive, if you shoot when the pipper is on the target you will most likely miss, you have to shot 1 time of flight before the pipper is on the target.

The snake update rate have nothing to do with it.

[CoBlue]

Still the piper is too small compered to RL https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=175604 .........but hay nobody cares....

[Jugdriver]

If it is a knife fight a lot of times I will forgo the radar lock and just use the Snake to avoid seeing the pipper jump around. You have the added bonus of not lighting up their RWR and it might get them to relax long enough to give them a clean 30mm squirt.

 

JD

 

AKA_MattE

[D4n]

On 5/22/2017 at 3:38 PM, microvax said:

Its a history gunsight, the pipper display where a imaginary bulletstream would intersect the range the target is from you.

What's your source for this? @microvax