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Trying to Understand AIM-9Ms on the A-10A


kronovan

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Last night I was able to eliminate the 2 Mi24 gunships with sidewinders in the A-10A CAS insta-action. I was under the impression that once I had the sidewinders active, I'd see a moving target circle on the HUD. All I experienced though, was the audible growl, the A2A siting funnel for the cannon and a circle that remained fixed in the top of the HUD. The growl of course did become high pitched once I had a gunship in the center of the HUD and I believe there was some circle that momentarily appeared around the Mi24; latter happened so fast though that I'm not sure I'm remembering it correctly.

 

I'm a bit concerned that the HUD might have been functioning incorrectly, or I just didn't do something correctly; i.e am I supposed to slew that target circle at the top of the HUD around simular to how you do for the AGM-65s? My expectations are influenced by what I read in the FC3 Flight Manual, but I know it's not entirely correct, as it mentions using the 2 and 4 keys for A2A weapons in the A-10A section when in fact you use 6 and D to select sidewinders.

 

Anyhow, I'm wondering if anyone here who knows the correct procedures can comment on them or point me to a good FC3 reference source?

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Last night I was able to eliminate the 2 Mi24 gunships with sidewinders in the A-10A CAS insta-action. I was under the impression that once I had the sidewinders active, I'd see a moving target circle on the HUD. All I experienced though, was the audible growl, the A2A siting funnel for the cannon and a circle that remained fixed in the top of the HUD. The growl of course did become high pitched once I had a gunship in the center of the HUD and I believe there was some circle that momentarily appeared around the Mi24; latter happened so fast though that I'm not sure I'm remembering it correctly.

 

I'm a bit concerned that the HUD might have been functioning incorrectly, or I just didn't do something correctly; i.e am I supposed to slew that target circle at the top of the HUD around simular to how you do for the AGM-65s? My expectations are influenced by what I read in the FC3 Flight Manual, but I know it's not entirely correct, as it mentions using the 2 and 4 keys for A2A weapons in the A-10A section when in fact you use 6 and D to select sidewinders.

 

Anyhow, I'm wondering if anyone here who knows the correct procedures can comment on them or point me to a good FC3 reference source?

 

This might best be asked in the A10a section of the FC3 board then the f15..

 

In the the A10C module, when aim9 is selected the seaker is caged to the center line of the aircraft and has a circle that rotates around in the hud. From there I use my TM warthog throttle joystick to then move the aim9 seaker cue to the aircraft or I just move the nose of the aircraft to achieve a high pitch lock tone and launch the missile..

 

w3W9FLL7Adg


Edited by pr1malr8ge

For the WIN

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

If your desired effect on the target is making the pilot defecate his pants laughing then you can definitely achieve it with a launch like that.
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This might best be asked in the A10a section of the FC3 board then the f15..

 

Oh darn, My bad.I thought I was posting in the FC3 top forum, but must have accidentally entered the F-15C subforum. If a forum mod could move this thread to the top forum, it'd be much appreciated. I did post a somewhat related message earlier in the A-10A forum, but didn't get any replies, hence my reason for wanting to try the top FC3 forum.

 

Thanks for the reply. I sort of figured the circle should move, but TBH I'm not even sure if I tried the , . ; or / keys to slew it around. I'm fairly certain some circle did appear (IIRC it was smaller though) once the Mi24 was in the center of the HUD and the AiM-9M got a lock and the audible growl rate accelerated.

 

[Edit] I watched the YouTube you linked (very helpful BTW) and I think I see my problem; the AIM-9M targeting reticule is remaining fixed to the top of my A-10A's HUD. I think what I may have been seeing -will test again tonight- was it momentarily moving from that fixed position to the center HUD when the missile got a lock; went back to the top fixed position when I launched the sidewinder. It could very well be my config, because I use an older (32 bit Windows) Nostromo keypad for some key presses like weapon selection and slewing controls. It does generally behave well with other game devices under the Win7 64 ultimate I'm running (actually better behaved than on my WinXP SP3 32 bit rig), but I do know it's possible for it to cause quirks. I'll disconnect it tonight to see if the AIM-9M reticule is still staying in that top fixed position.


Edited by kronovan
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Oh darn, My bad.I thought I was posting in the FC3 top forum, but must have accidentally entered the F-15C subforum. If a forum mod could move this thread to the top forum, it'd be much appreciated. I did post a somewhat related message earlier in the A-10A forum, but didn't get any replies, hence my reason for wanting to try the top FC3 forum.

 

Thanks for the reply. I sort of figured the circle should move, but TBH I'm not even sure if I tried the , . ; or / keys to slew it around. I'm fairly certain some circle did appear (IIRC it was smaller though) once the Mi24 was in the center of the HUD and the AiM-9M got a lock and the audible growl rate accelerated.

 

[Edit] I watched the YouTube you linked (very helpful BTW) and I think I see my problem; the AIM-9M targeting reticule is remaining fixed to the top of my A-10A's HUD. I think what I may have been seeing -will test again tonight- was it momentarily moving from that fixed position to the center HUD when the missile got a lock; went back to the top fixed position when I launched the sidewinder. It could very well be my config, because I use an older (32 bit Windows) Nostromo keypad for some key presses like weapon selection and slewing controls. It does generally behave well with other game devices under the Win7 64 ultimate I'm running (actually better behaved than on my WinXP SP3 32 bit rig), but I do know it's possible for it to cause quirks. I'll disconnect it tonight to see if the AIM-9M reticule is still staying in that top fixed position.

 

 

No problem.. I want to re-itterate, I have never flown the A version of the a10 only the C full fidelity model. So I do not know exactly how the Sidewinder works in the A. I wouldn't see why it wouldn't be the same but then again who knows.

For the WIN

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

If your desired effect on the target is making the pilot defecate his pants laughing then you can definitely achieve it with a launch like that.
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BTW how do I know which weapon I currently have selected/active? All I see on my dash are the groups of 4 light indicators which indicate which hardpoints have missiles mounted. I don't see anything that indicates any weapon type though. Thanks again.

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BTW how do I know which weapon I currently have selected/active? All I see on my dash are the groups of 4 light indicators which indicate which hardpoints have missiles mounted. I don't see anything that indicates any weapon type though. Thanks again.

 

When you switch to air/air mode it auto selects the aim9 as your missile. and guns will always be active in what ever weapons mode you're in.

 

So to recap.. Say you're currently in a bomb run with a gbu ect ect and in ccrp mode and you have to cancel that run due to spotting an air target. Just pressing 6[i have weapons mode on my HOTAS so I think A2A is 6] will imediatly switch to the gun funnel and activate the aim9 seaker and grawl cue. From there once you have your target locked in the aim9 by a high pitch tone [by either moving the nose to center on your target or by slewing the aim9 seaker] pressing the pickle [weapons realease] button will fire then aim9.


Edited by pr1malr8ge

For the WIN

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

If your desired effect on the target is making the pilot defecate his pants laughing then you can definitely achieve it with a launch like that.
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Ah hah. OK that makes sense - no weapon indication panel, lights, HUD icon or MPD weapon display like the F-15C, because the simple A2A mode doesn't really demand them. The A2G seems straight forward too in that you either have 1 of the 2 bomb pickles displayed in the HUD or the TV is on for EOD missiles. Only thing I'm not sure about is rockets, although I don't think they're even mounted in the A-10A insta-action.

 

I'm curious how rockets are indicated in the A-10C, because so far pretty much everything you've described is similar?

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Ah hah. OK that makes sense - no weapon indication panel, lights, HUD icon or MPD weapon display like the F-15C, because the simple A2A mode doesn't really demand them. The A2G seems straight forward too in that you either have 1 of the 2 bomb pickles displayed in the HUD or the TV is on for EOD missiles. Only thing I'm not sure about is rockets, although I don't think they're even mounted in the A-10A insta-action.

 

I'm curious how rockets are indicated in the A-10C, because so far pretty much everything you've described is similar?

 

This is what the Hud looks like when m-151 rockets are selected.

 

maxresdefault.jpg

 

 

HeAxQCj31xY


Edited by pr1malr8ge

For the WIN

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

If your desired effect on the target is making the pilot defecate his pants laughing then you can definitely achieve it with a launch like that.
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I did some testing last night and confirmed regardless of what input hardware I have plugged in, the targeting reticule for the AIM-9M is remaining fixed at the top of the HUD - certainly isn't centered like in the above image in pr1malr8ge's first youtube link. Even worse, I have to position that reticule on the target to get a lock, so the enemy has to be in the upper portion of my HUD. That isn't the case for the selection reticule for the TVM and EO missiles, which I can freely move with the keys and can auto-center with the appropriate key. That auto-centering key combo doesn't do anything for the sidewinder reticule.

 

I'm wondering if I need to uncage the sidewinder or something. I've read about an AIM-9M retiicule that can move, so I'm starting to 2nd guess myself as to whether I'm missing something, of if the reticule is indeed bugged?


Edited by kronovan
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I did some testing last night and confirmed regardless of what input hardware I have plugged in, the targeting reticule for the AIM-9M is remaining fixed at the top of the HUD - certainly isn't centered like in the above image in pr1malr8ge's first youtube link. Even worse, I have to position that reticule on the target to get a lock, so the enemy has to be in the upper portion of my HUD. That isn't the case for the selection reticule for the TVM and EO missiles, which I can freely move with the keys and can auto-center with the appropriate key. That auto-centering key combo doesn't do anything for the sidewinder reticule.

 

I'm wondering if I need to uncage the sidewinder or something. I've read about an AIM-9M retiicule that can move, so I'm starting to 2nd guess myself as to whether I'm missing something, of if the reticule is indeed bugged?

 

 

If memory serves me right. When A2A is selected in the C model the aim9 is uncaged and wonders but starts in the upper side of the hud.

 

Tl0mAWYNaw8

 

5dAaZIXveCw

 

 

AIM-9 Sidewinder

 

A radar is not installed in the A-10A, as such, it must acquire its air targets visually. Target lock is done

with the weapon bore sight mode that only uses the infrared seeker of the AIM-9.

Step 1

Identify the target visually.

Step 2

Select air-to-air mode by pressing [6] key. Maneuver the aircraft to place the target inside the AIM-9 seeker reticule on the HUD.

Step 3

Wait until the missile seeker achieves lock, represented by the high-pitched tone. Lock range depends on target IR-signature and can vary from .1 to 10 miles. When the target is framed by the reticule and the lock tone sounds, you have a valid seeker lock. Launch the weapon by pressing the weapons release

button on your joystick or by pressing the [RAlt-Space] Key on your keyboard

 

http://cdn.edgecast.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/245570/manuals/A-10A%20Flight%20Manual%20EN.pdf?t=1487667695


Edited by pr1malr8ge

For the WIN

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

If your desired effect on the target is making the pilot defecate his pants laughing then you can definitely achieve it with a launch like that.
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I did some testing last night and confirmed regardless of what input hardware I have plugged in, the targeting reticule for the AIM-9M is remaining fixed at the top of the HUD - certainly isn't centered like in the above image in pr1malr8ge's first youtube link. Even worse, I have to position that reticule on the target to get a lock, so the enemy has to be in the upper portion of my HUD. That isn't the case for the selection reticule for the TVM and EO missiles, which I can freely move with the keys and can auto-center with the appropriate key. That auto-centering key combo doesn't do anything for the sidewinder reticule.

 

I'm wondering if I need to uncage the sidewinder or something. I've read about an AIM-9M retiicule that can move, so I'm starting to 2nd guess myself as to whether I'm missing something, of if the reticule is indeed bugged?

 

That's an old video of the A-10A before the A-10C came out and before the A-10A received updates, the reticule now appears at the top of the HUD the same as the A-10C except it is 'fixed only' on the A-10A.

The A-10C can have fixed, scan pattern, slew or slave, that's the beauty of full fidelity.

"[51☭] FROSTIE" #55

51st PVO "BISONS"

Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10

https://100kiap.org

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Yup, I'm following those procedures and I do get a successful lock and often manage to hit the target. The Mi-24 pilots have a few tricks up their sleeve though. ;-)

Page 52 of that A-10A manual you linked, tells me the problem is actually a bug. Consider what's stated on that page..

 

"The gun funnel is located near the top of the HUD, above the AIM-9 seeker reticule. It displays the predicted flight trajectory of shells"

 

... and then take a look at the image - the AIM-9M seeker reticule in the image is actually above the gun funnel, not below it. That's the same position it's in on my HUD, but it never does move, even when it's acquires a target lock. Nothing I do can move it to the center of the HUD. In some of the A-10A videos I've watched (could be older LOMAC ones) the sidewinder seeker reticule is situated in the center of the HUD even before it acquires a lock. It would be a lot easier to operate if that were the case, because being at the top, you have to be very careful with how your managing your warthog's energy when you line up for a lock, lest you climb in on too steep an angle and stall.

 

Thanks again for all the info & links.


Edited by kronovan
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That's an old video of the A-10A before the A-10C came out and before the A-10A received updates, the reticule now appears at the top of the HUD the same as the A-10C except it is 'fixed only' on the A-10A.

The A-10C can have fixed, scan pattern, slew or slave, that's the beauty of full fidelity.

 

Arrgh...you beat me to it before I could complete my post. :-D. Well that explains what I'm experiencing, but I have to ask why it's now that way? As I said in my above post, locking the seeker reticule in the top of the HUD can cause problems with energy management.

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