Vertical air movement?

[Pilsner]

Hi, I've noticed that in DCS the air seems to be moving(wind) almost exclusively in a horizontal fashion.

 

In reality when the sun heats a surface on the ground like sand or a parking lot, the ground transfer some of the heat to the air that's just above it, and then because air at a higher temperature has a lower density, it goes up creating what we call a thermal. Colder air then take the place of the air that just went up creating a downdraft. As a result, clouds with vertical growth start to develop (cumulus, cumulonimbus). Having flown in gliders and numbers of small planes in real life I can definitely say that you really feel those up and down drafts when you fly into them.

 

Now I understand(speculate because I've never flown an F-15 in real life) that in an F-15 fully fueled with 2 external tanks the bumps you would feel would be less apparent. But when I fly in a Dora in NTTR on a hot day and I go from over the hot sand to feet wet. I should feel some kind of down and up draft. but none of that is present.

 

Am I missing something, maybe a setting somewhere? Or is it just not modeled in DCS?

Edited June 1, 2017 by Pilsner

[Art-J]

These have never been modeled I believe. The only vertical component is available in turbulence conditions.

[shagrat]

Turbulence plus wind settings.

Turbulence is the variation of wind in all directions, apart from that, thermals, upwinds on mountains etc. seem not to be modeled.

I guess it would require too much CPU power needed for the important stuff in a combat simulation. ;)

[Pilsner]

These have never been modeled I believe. The only vertical component is available in turbulence conditions.

 

I see.

Thanks for the fast reply

[Pilsner]

Turbulence plus wind settings.

Turbulence is the variation of wind in all directions, apart from that, thermals, upwinds on mountains etc. seem not to be modeled.

I guess it would require too much CPU power needed for the important stuff in a combat simulation. ;)

 

I get what you mean but Meteo IS a really important part of flying and I think when people think simulation they think as close to real life as possible...

If it's not modeled because it would make the game unplayable ok.

 

It would be interesting to see if other sims have it implemented I would'nt know because I almost only play dcs...

Edited June 1, 2017 by Pilsner

[shagrat]

Other "Sims" often not model the internal systems and of course no ballistic bullet trajectory, enemy AI, etc.

The only realistic weather simulation with good thermal representation I (!) know, is "Soaring Simulator" so far. This is a very specific sim, though.

[Reflected]

Planes in DCS can't thermal, so why waste resources on modelling it? It's not a soaring simulator, and the effect on an F-15 would be the same as the turbulence we have now.

[philstyle]

If absence of something as trivial as updraft makes it 'unplayable' for you, I'd say you to need to find a new hobby. Huge concessions are made across the board in every GAME (that's what these are you know) because they have to actually work on personal computers. If they truly model EVERYTHING you'd need a dedicated network like at an aerospace facility to even run it.

It's not possible, it's not going to happen, probably will NEVER happen on silicon based chips. There will ALWAYS be concessions.

Jeez. This is like some guy complaining on a space sim forum about how lazy the devs were for not modeling time dilation and relativity.

 

 

 

You've mis-read him.

 

 

He said he was OK with it not being implemented, if implementation would make the game unplayable.

HE is NOT saying that the absence of it makes the gamre unplayable.

 

 

Zero marks for comprehension.

[NineLine]

We are all here for the same love of the hobby, lets all play nice together ok.

 

 

If absence of something as trivial as updraft makes it 'unplayable' for you, I'd say you to need to find a new hobby. Huge concessions are made across the board in every GAME (that's what these are you know) because they have to actually work on personal computers. If they truly model EVERYTHING you'd need a dedicated network like at an aerospace facility to even run it.

 

It's not possible, it's not going to happen, probably will NEVER happen on silicon based chips. There will ALWAYS be concessions.

 

 

Jeez. This is like some guy complaining on a space sim forum about how lazy the devs were for not modeling time dilation and relativity.

[shagrat]

I do not say it isn't important, or not needed. Especially for Helicopters (I love the Huey) up- and downdrafts on mountains and in valleys, would be a welcome addition.

Yet, I understand, why this is possibly low on the list of priorities. It will require cpu power, that currently is already limited and distributed between different aspects of the Sim, as well as the development effort for halfway realistic approach.

 

There are too many other things important to the combat sim aspects, that need optimization first.

But for a wish list item it should be on the list. :)

[Northstar98]

If absence of something as trivial as updraft makes it 'unplayable' for you, I'd say you to need to find a new hobby. Huge concessions are made across the board in every GAME (that's what these are you know) because they have to actually work on personal computers. If they truly model EVERYTHING you'd need a dedicated network like at an aerospace facility to even run it.

 

It's not possible, it's not going to happen, probably will NEVER happen on silicon based chips. There will ALWAYS be concessions.

 

 

Jeez. This is like some guy complaining on a space sim forum about how lazy the devs were for not modeling time dilation and relativity.

 

Pffffffft! Hey buddy it's called a wishlist look it up!

[Mars Exulte]

Pffffffft! Hey buddy it's called a wishlist look it up!

 

I was referring to him saying it made it unplayable.

 

I was not attacking OP or his request specifically, just the dramatic phrasing he used regarding a fringe atmospheric calculation and that it was "required" somehow. As I said, there are ALWAYS going to be concessions. As much as DCS aims for realism, there's a list as long as my arm of things that are "off" or missing.

[Northstar98]

I was referring to him saying it made it unplayable.

 

I was not attacking OP or his request specifically, just the dramatic phrasing he used regarding a fringe atmospheric calculation and that it was "required" somehow. As I said, there are ALWAYS going to be concessions. As much as DCS aims for realism, there's a list as long as my arm of things that are "off" or missing.

 

Welp it certainly looked like an attack...

 

And yes there's always going to be trade-offs when it comes to commercial products...

[Pilsner]

I was referring to him saying it made it unplayable.

 

I was not attacking OP or his request specifically, just the dramatic phrasing he used regarding a fringe atmospheric calculation and that it was "required" somehow. As I said, there are ALWAYS going to be concessions. As much as DCS aims for realism, there's a list as long as my arm of things that are "off" or missing.

 

For the record, I never said it made the game unplayable, at least it's not what I intended. Just that it would add realism and that realism is what simulators aim for.

 

But if simulating it would require so much power that it would break the game, I can understand why it's not implemented.

Edited June 10, 2017 by Pilsner
Fixed some grammar

[Pilsner]

Planes in DCS can't thermal, so why waste resources on modelling it? It's not a soaring simulator, and the effect on an F-15 would be the same as the turbulence we have now.

 

Planes in DCS can't use thermals like gliders: that is true. But a down draft of -300 feet per minute on short final in a spitfire when you are at 100mph and 50 feet AGL would be something that if you don't react properly to it, you might crash.

 

 

I don't want to sound like a crybaby here. I had good answers to why it's not in DCS by Art-J Sithspawn and Shagrat.

 

It's just that when someone says airflow is not important in flying, I kinda feel the need to say that it is.

Edited June 10, 2017 by Pilsner
added a colon after the word gliders