VR: to be or not to be.

[witwas]

I am a big flight sim fan (particularly DCS) since a couple of years and invested a fair amount of money in a good pc, quality hotas devices, track ir and a triple screen setup. On top a have built a basic home cockpit to really amp up the experience. See picture below.

 

 

A couple of weeks ago I upgraded my pc with a GTX 1080 and a new processor and I am now considering to make the upgrade to VR (Rift or Vive). Preferably I would like to test it before spending €500+ but don’t really know somebody who I can lend them from.

 

 

But what do you guys think? Is it worth upgrading from a triple screen setup with track ir (with graphical settings on high, thanks to the 1080) to VR?

 

 

 

[Hawkeye60]

Silly question!

Unequivocal YES!

You will never go back to flat screens.......

[=DECOY=]

Silly question!

Unequivocal YES!

You will never go back to flat screens.......

 

myself and 13 other squad members would also agree.....Once you go Rift....you cant go back :)

[John Hargreaves]

I doubt you would be disappointed with a Rift in DCS, but with a cool setup like yours, I would just run both, depending what mood you are in. You have plenty of room to keep a Rift on those shelves at each side of your rig.

Sometimes it's nice to have all the detail and resolution on screen, but there is nothing like the sense of being inside the cockpit that you get from the rift. I only really use my monitor with DCS when I'm tinkering with settings or using the mission editor. For that kind of thing I still think the monitor has it, but the whole 3D-ness of VR is amazing and worth the entry fee IMO.

[NeilWillis]

Absolutely agree. The difference is light night and day. It still needs some improvements, but even so, it is a complete revelation and a huge step forwards towards realistic simulation.

[_schepper_]

I, oculus rift cv1 user... i never go back, even whit the lower settings... the imersion is so great and feels so real that i love it verry mutch.

My setup was great to, and was thinking.. buying rift now or waet years for next gen... i am so happy that i have disited to buy, frend of me that test the rift at my house direct in the same week he buy a rift to :) (sorry for englisch) :)

 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-J510FN met Tapatalk

[_schepper_]

If you live in belgium there is posibility to test :)

 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-J510FN met Tapatalk

[Exorcet]

Disclaimer, I don't have VR.

 

I don't think VR is hands down superior to a wide monitor with Track IR. While visually impressive, it has some practical problems, the biggest for me being that it doesn't let you see your actual physical controls. This is less of an issue when you can cram everything on your HOTAS, but it's always going to be present. I wouldn't consider VR to be "complete" until you can interact with the virtual cockpit as well as you can see it.

[some1]

I'm in the "try before you buy" camp, unless you can easily afford it, or can buy a cheap one second hand.

 

VR is a big step forward but a few small steps back at the same time. Depending on your play style, expectations and even physical condition, the problems with the current VR helmets can be a little nuisance to you, or they can be a game breaking issues.

 

- Flying itself is great VR. As long as you feel comfy in the helmet.

- Flying at night is terrible (part DCS/part VR problem)

- Precision flying never before has been so easy. Maneuvering a helicopter, flying in formation, aerial refuelling, landing a taildragger, everything is much easier and intuitive in VR.

- Dogfighting is harder and physically demanding.

- Spotting ground targets is a chore.

 

Keep in mind that on the VR related forums/subforums, you will mostly find positive opinions from those who keep using their headsets. Those disappointed simply stash or sell them away and move to other places.

[Abburo]

Keep in mind that on the VR related forums/subforums, you will mostly find positive opinions from those who keep using their headsets. Those disappointed simply stash or sell them away and move to other places.

 

+1

I have tested DK2 version and I cannot stand more than 1 minute with the headset on my head.

 

VR is future for sure, but these pioneering iteration of headsets still have some important drawbacks. As far as I am concerned I will wait one or two generation more and see how they will evolve.

[Strong05]

I had a triple screen setup, and now have a 50" 4k screen... neither of which I use anymore for DCS. The only time I use the big screen is to show something to an onlooker. IMO, spotting is no more difficult then on flat screens. It just takes time to learn what to look for. Now identifying the bogey is the hard part, especially in WWII plans. Hard to say if it's any harder then on a large screen or not though.

 

Also, I believe dog fighting is much easier in VR due to the natural feel and understanding of where you are looking versus where you are flying. With track IR I could easily get disoriented as to where I was looking versus where I was flying.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Strong05

[dburne]

Even with it's well known shortcomings, I was completely blown away by the experience of gaming with my Rift, so much so that I can not go back to doing so on a monitor again. I have had mine since Jan 15th, and still am just amazed by the immersion each time I put on the headset.

 

To me it is the difference between looking at the action on my monitor, versus being completely in the action in VR.

[nicka117]

Absolutely do not do it. It's like getting hooked on drugs. My wife said she lost her husband to the RIFT (she's "mostly" joking...).

[Kayos]

Silly question!

Unequivocal YES!

You will never go back to flat screens.......

 

THIS! Spotting targets changes with settings. If you crank it up to 2.0 it will be harder to spot. At 1.0 it is easy. Just depends on if you can read everything in the cockpit at 1.0

This seems very plane dependant with fonts etc... In the A-10C I have no problem picking out tanks etc with 1.0, if I put it up to 2.0 it is harder.

But I can NEVER go back to a monitor for DCS.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Kayos

[Cibit]

I can never go back to dcs with a monitor. VR is the way forward but never get rid of the set up you have. I imagine it's great for a variety of games and applications:)

[hansangb]

Disclaimer, I don't have VR.

 

I don't think VR is hands down superior to a wide monitor with Track IR. While visually impressive, it has some practical problems, the biggest for me being that it doesn't let you see your actual physical controls. This is less of an issue when you can cram everything on your HOTAS, but it's always going to be present. I wouldn't consider VR to be "complete" until you can interact with the virtual cockpit as well as you can see it.

 

 

You can see it just fine. In between the bridge of you nose. I use the MFDs and am busy (not busy???) building switch boxes for use with VR.

 

As for the OP's question. I had three monitors and two Liliput MFDs.

 

I still use MFDs, (not Liliput because DisplayLink and Rift don't play nice) but I can never ever ever go back to three monitor setup. I would compare it with riding a horse and buggy with a nice modern sedan. I wouldn't say we're at the Ferrari stage just yet. I imagine we'll have that in gen 3 VR devices. But when compared to three monitor setup? Not even a close fight.

 

I'll give you some concrete examples. Going into a holding pattern around a runway is child's play. You can fly and keep the runway in sight *naturally* w/o losing orientation. Using valleys and hills as target reference points is child's play because your brain knows where you are, where you're flying to as compared to the terrain.

Edited June 8, 2017 by hansangb

[Asset]

Well, this is a Rift user speaking here.

Let me be clear: the immersion is amazing. It cannot be described, this feelinf of actually sitting in a plane, with plane all around you. It raised my helo flying skills to a new dimension as you can judge its movement so much better.

 

However, I am also in a squadron that takes flying seriously and I do have the feeling that I am hindered in my performance by the current VR sets. Resolution is low, I have to use the zoom constantly, I have trouble reading the course of the HSI or my wingmens' altitude off the TAD or the currently selected radio preset. So I am experimenting going back to TrackIR and use a second touch screen monitor for displaying gauges and MFCDs/CDU. And VR is very power hungry. I have 4GHz i7 and a GTX1060. 130fps in 2D, 45 in VR, hmmm.

My advice would be to ask yourself what you want to get out of your flying. Roam around and have a bit of fun: go VR. When doing it a bit more serious going the non-VR route seems a good route as well. It's pretty difficult to take notes with a VR set on. If you fly planes VR does less for you then with helos.

I don't know your monitor specs, but if they are 120Hz compatible you could try 3D glasses like NVidia 3d Vision 2. Maybe this can be a good compromise and only set you back $200.

[VampireNZ]

I very much in the VR camp - as already stated the immersion is amazing. No comparison at all to flat screens and TrackIR.

ED have also just released new Labels code also that really adds power to the labels lua. You can tweak it to perfection really, a smooth transition in transparency based on distance of a size and colour adjustable dot that blends perfectly over the target. Made a huge difference to VR immersion if tweaked properly!

 

(@Kayos - just adjust the 'font size' variable in labels.lua based on your PD setting!)

 

Yes the resolution is pretty average, and is what I miss most about flat screen displays - but definitely a compromise I am willing to make, and it will only get better in time.

 

Dogfighting in a HMD is a completely different, awesome experience....how is your neck/back flexibility!?

[pegon]

Well, this is a Rift user speaking here.

Let me be clear: the immersion is amazing. It cannot be described, this feelinf of actually sitting in a plane, with plane all around you. It raised my helo flying skills to a new dimension as you can judge its movement so much better.

 

However, I am also in a squadron that takes flying seriously and I do have the feeling that I am hindered in my performance by the current VR sets. Resolution is low, I have to use the zoom constantly, I have trouble reading the course of the HSI or my wingmens' altitude off the TAD or the currently selected radio preset. So I am experimenting going back to TrackIR and use a second touch screen monitor for displaying gauges and MFCDs/CDU. And VR is very power hungry. I have 4GHz i7 and a GTX1060. 130fps in 2D, 45 in VR, hmmm.

My advice would be to ask yourself what you want to get out of your flying. Roam around and have a bit of fun: go VR. When doing it a bit more serious going the non-VR route seems a good route as well. It's pretty difficult to take notes with a VR set on. If you fly planes VR does less for you then with helos.

I don't know your monitor specs, but if they are 120Hz compatible you could try 3D glasses like NVidia 3d Vision 2. Maybe this can be a good compromise and only set you back $200.

 

Overall good post and i agree with everything you say. There is nothing else that gives the feeling of flight like VR. However, current systems are to limited in display resolution. If you wait another year, you will have a unit with much better resolution, foveated rendering and perhaps better FOV. Todays systems was a good buy 1 year ago, but today i think its better to wait.

[John Hargreaves]

That's a very good point, we are a year closer to CV2 than when I got my CV1, so there is less of a wait for the better headsets. Even so I do believe that if you can reasonably afford it, you won't regret it. Just do your homework first so you have realistic expectations.

[hansangb]

You can always return it, right? Thing about VR is that no matter how much people explain it, you won't get it until you try it. That's the honest truth.

[witwas]

Thanks guys for the great feedback, thanks -Scheppers- for the opportunity to test the rift, i live in Belgium but it is a bit far away.

 

you have convinced me, I will try to get my hands on a second hand cv1.

 

I will keep you posted! Thanks again

[Astronut]

You won't regret it. Most of the people who will tell you "it isn't ready", or the resolution isn't high enough etc have never tried it or, in some cases being competitive in Multiplayer is all they really care about. If you are looking for the best simulation experience (i.e. Simulation of what it is like to be strapped into the cockpits of these aircraft) then the Rift wins hands down. A flat screen gives a pretty dull experience in comparison.

 

I fly for a living (I wish it was a fighter, but I have to settle for a business jet) and it is often very difficult to pick out traffic until it is pretty close. That is especially the case for small aircraft, but even airliners can be hard to visually acquire and identify the type. This is even when ATC calls out the traffic or you have them on TCAS. Of course, there are times when you can get visual with an airplane many miles out, but the lighting has to be right, the sky background is a factor and of course a contrail helps immensely.

[Simon1279]

Silly question!

Unequivocal YES!

You will never go back to flat screens.......

Agree to what our colleague, virtual pilot, wrote.

[The_Ant]

Hi there! I had the same thoughts as you do,to get or not to get.But i bought a Rift as christmas present for my self,been flying with it now for 6 months.And will never go back too monitor ever.Some games you should try is Dcs-offcourse : ) ,Il2 sturmovik-awsome Vr in that game too.Dirt Rally and Project cars if you like driving,Elite Dangerous if your into space sim.