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Joni

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Hi everyone,

 

I have DCS 1.5 installed on an HDD and I have my OS installed on an SSD.

 

Im seeing a lot of stutter (no matter what graphic settings) while circling around for the first time in external views, then it wont sutter again.

 

Could this have anything to do with the fact that I have dcs installed on a different drive than the OS?

 

Thanks!

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but i have the preload at max.... shouldnt it load it ahead?

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No it is not because you have it installed on a different drive. Stuttering is often caused by high MSAA settings. Stuttering online in multiplayer is due to issues that ED knows about and can't be helped.

 

With your system you should not be having stutters. I don't.

 

Installed on HDD separate from OS, older hardware, except i have 1060 6gb. I run high preset with traffic off, preload down to 40k, lense flare and heat blur off, and I think that is about it. 60 fps except during online stutters which is due to missions spawning in. and only for a brief moment.

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ive attached a screenshot of my settings.

 

i dont have stutter per se. it only happens once per game as i stated. game runs at 180 fps all the time.

 

but i dont understand that one time stutter :(

st.thumb.jpg.86ec1fb6c526ae4efe91ac5ff109d4c0.jpg

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That spawn thing never happens to me, but the viewing around thing does just once

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The stutter is DCS loading the terrain, which is taking some time as it is on a HDD instead of a SSD. It's not because it isn't on the OS drive.

 

but i have the preload at max.... shouldnt it load it ahead?

 

It doesn't work that way. It's more of a "radious around that's currently allocated" but even that may not hold true completely if it's not cleaning things out or saving it for a bit later (delayed) .. but that may be an illusion caused by the OS Standby Memory feature.

 

But I have since found that this may not be the biggest issue. The sheer amount of textures and surface data does have an impact but only because the I/O is getting hammered and one of the major things that hammers the I/O is the replay tracking, which does a ton of writes on default C: drive.

 

How much of an effect the replay-tracking-generated-iops cause the game to stutter cannot be 100% known without it being disabled ... but the suspicions are raising, from my recent tests, it kinda points to that.

 

The other thing is that none of the textures are actually engine-critical, whether they're loaded or not, in the process of loading, slow or fast, at NO point should they make the engine to stutter, so no it's not really that, it's something messing with the engine, either indirectly or it is a bug.

 

I thought that was the issue, that the engine needs those textures for rendering, it doesn't since I disabled them completely and it runs fine, the most important thing that's required is the nevada.surface5 file, as far as flying in the map goes.

 

There's many different things going on at once, it's quite complicated, things need to be split apart and tested one by one, that's basic troubleshooting technique.

 

 

At the end we might get to uncover if there's genuine hardware not up to speed, but with more testing I just don't think so, I don't have that of an old CPU, and it's OCd, and I'm safe to rule out HDD.

 

It could also be some kind of a freak bug in terms of hardware/OS combination, but it should not be the HDD itself in general - the engine-critical assets have to be 100% loaded in memory or else the engine will freeze and if the file can't be found it will crash.

 

With a slow HDD, all you SHOULD get would be longer times of blurred textures slowly poping in and getting clearer and sharper, that's all a slow HDD would cause, if the engine properly loaded the critical assets and streamed the uncritical ones, it's not that simple as some assets that are used more rarely (ejection) are still practically important, but as it stands now, every time you eject or crash into the groun on a HDD there's a noticable 200-500 milisecond freeze, the SSD users probably have just 50ms or less freeze, so they may not even notice it and so some of them think it's all a problem on user-end, but the evidence shows otherwise, ofcourse in the context of not agreeing with the behavior of the game, if that's the intended behavior then technically yes it would be HDDs fault. These assets should be loaded when the mission is loading and there would be no problem. I have suggested that there should be a total re-check of all the assets and an index file built that would work with the memory management part of the engine, and files/folders indexed would contain tags, so the engine would know which ones to load when and which ones to throw out based on priority and type, there could be better approaches, better ideas, I'm not a real programmer, but at least it's a proof of concept that it is possible to make this game totally stutter free once and for all.

 

But even on a HDD i never see any pop-in at all, it take 1 second and most textures are quickly updated with the highest quality if I switch a view from one to the other side of the map. Yes even with the stuttering and the replay-tracking-generated-mouse-camera-movement lag it's still not affecting the textures that much.

 

 

 

In a proper behavior all that "preload radius would simply do is what it probably does now, of raising or lowering the radius around the player's current camera in which the assets (which ones fall into this category?) would be LOADED not visible, since that's what the name suggest, if it's doing both then it should be renamed to reflect that, or there should be a second option for View Distance radius.

 

 

But it's not clear to me yet, since I've seen that it doesn't affect textures, only map objects (buildings..) and the Visibility Range thing is actually controlling the terrain textures - I haven't done that many research into these 2 options on DCS 2.0 - last time I was in 1.5 but it's quite some time ago and I would need to retest things in order to comment any more.


Edited by Worrazen

Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria

 

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It doesn't work that way. It's more of a "radious around that's currently allocated" but even that may not hold true completely if it's not cleaning things out or saving it for a bit later (delayed) .. but that may be an illusion caused by the OS Standby Memory feature.

 

But I have since found that this may not be the biggest issue. The sheer amount of textures and surface data does have an impact but only because the I/O is getting hammered and one of the major things that hammers the I/O is the replay tracking, which does a ton of writes on default C: drive.

 

How much of an effect the replay-tracking-generated-iops cause the game to stutter cannot be 100% known without it being disabled ... but the suspicions are raising, from my recent tests, it kinda points to that.

 

The other thing is that none of the textures are actually engine-critical, whether they're loaded or not, in the process of loading, slow or fast, at NO point should they make the engine to stutter, so no it's not really that, it's something messing with the engine, either indirectly or it is a bug.

 

I thought that was the issue, that the engine needs those textures for rendering, it doesn't since I disabled them completely and it runs fine, the most important thing that's required is the nevada.surface5 file, as far as flying in the map goes.

 

There's many different things going on at once, it's quite complicated, things need to be split apart and tested one by one, that's basic troubleshooting technique.

 

 

At the end we might get to uncover if there's genuine hardware not up to speed, but with more testing I just don't think so, I don't have that of an old CPU, and it's OCd, and I'm safe to rule out HDD.

 

It could also be some kind of a freak bug in terms of hardware/OS combination, but it should not be the HDD itself in general - the engine-critical assets have to be 100% loaded in memory or else the engine will freeze and if the file can't be found it will crash.

 

With a slow HDD, all you SHOULD get would be longer times of blurred textures slowly poping in and getting clearer and sharper, that's all a slow HDD would cause, if the engine properly loaded the critical assets and streamed the uncritical ones, it's not that simple as some assets that are used more rarely (ejection) are still practically important, but as it stands now, every time you eject or crash into the groun on a HDD there's a noticable 200-500 milisecond freeze, the SSD users probably have just 50ms or less freeze, so they may not even notice it and so some of them think it's all a problem on user-end, but the evidence shows otherwise, ofcourse in the context of not agreeing with the behavior of the game, if that's the intended behavior then technically yes it would be HDDs fault. These assets should be loaded when the mission is loading and there would be no problem. I have suggested that there should be a total re-check of all the assets and an index file built that would work with the memory management part of the engine, and files/folders indexed would contain tags, so the engine would know which ones to load when and which ones to throw out based on priority and type, there could be better approaches, better ideas, I'm not a real programmer, but at least it's a proof of concept that it is possible to make this game totally stutter free once and for all.

 

But even on a HDD i never see any pop-in at all, it take 1 second and most textures are quickly updated with the highest quality if I switch a view from one to the other side of the map. Yes even with the stuttering and the replay-tracking-generated-mouse-camera-movement lag it's still not affecting the textures that much.

 

 

 

In a proper behavior all that "preload radius would simply do is what it probably does now, of raising or lowering the radius around the player's current camera in which the assets (which ones fall into this category?) would be LOADED not visible, since that's what the name suggest, if it's doing both then it should be renamed to reflect that, or there should be a second option for View Distance radius.

 

 

But it's not clear to me yet, since I've seen that it doesn't affect textures, only map objects (buildings..) and the Visibility Range thing is actually controlling the terrain textures - I haven't done that many research into these 2 options on DCS 2.0 - last time I was in 1.5 but it's quite some time ago and I would need to retest things in order to comment any more.

 

 

So whats happening to me is normal or not?

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So whats happening to me is normal or not?

 

No it should not be normal, if what is happening to you is really the stuff I had explained and had in mind.

 

I can't know that for sure actually about your case, because I'm not sure what kind of stuttering you're having, I've only wrote that for the general case that some users are experiencing, including me, not necessairly everyone, that would take a lot more fidding, you would need to post a video of it in action, but you would also have to explain it in much more detail, and all the technical stats and it's quite demanding for someone that just wants to play, that's what it unfortunately takes.

 

Keep in mind that if you only have one System SSD and you install DCS on there, it will have to load and write on the same device, because the replay tracking is being written there by default.

 

Here's one example of the replay tracking feature generating write io in action:


Edited by Worrazen

Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria

 

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Just for what it's worth I get the stuttering effect mostly in the Normandy map flying low in helicopters.

 

For me it seems more that the GPU is maxed out and not so much getting stuff from hdd ssd CPU RAM etc and that's with a 980Ti if I turn some settings down I can pretty much reduce the GPU load and not get any (few) stutters in single player.

 

Might be worth looking at your graphics card with MSI Afterburner or equivalent.

 

Still oc ing the graphics card ATM. ;)

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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If you get stable frame rates above 50 FPS the stuttering should not be caused by the GPU unless it's some other type of stuttering.

 

Everything that I'm saying this year is based on the NTTR 2.0 and 2.1 experience, I didn't go back to 1.5 to do major testing since it's complicated dealing with just one edition already.

 

Also one of the biggest clues that I have for the type of stuttering that I'm talking about (there might be other types ontop, who knows) is directly correlated to storage activity, I'm looking at the Storage Activity LED and I can see how the stutters correlate to when the LED blinks, and in the test environment where nothing is loading except the replay-tracking producing SSD write IO's, it's stuttering right there as well, infact it doesn't stutter that much more if I play with all the assets or not.

 

Ofcourse it could all be a huge coincidence too, not ruling that out, or at least indirectly caused, it may be some thing alredy primed and the replay tracking io's just trigger it, who knows.

Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria

 

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Perhaps although I am using VR so maybe different. Although during game I have very little disc activity indicated by Task Manager.

 

In my case I'm pretty sure the GPU is busy and well everything else in the system isn't doing as much as it could. :thumbup:

 

Normandy_Gazelle.PNG

 

I'll do a bit more tweaking.

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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I have not read the previous answers to the op question but in my case moving dcs 1.5 from the hdd to ssd eliminated all my stuttering. Dcs 2.0 does not have that issue so i assume it might be some dcs 1.5 bug.

Also i dont think the drive where the os is installed has any influence.

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I have not read the previous answers to the op question but in my case moving dcs 1.5 from the hdd to ssd eliminated all my stuttering. Dcs 2.0 does not have that issue so i assume it might be some dcs 1.5 bug.

Also i dont think the drive where the os is installed has any influence.

I only have 1.5. Your stuttering went away in 2.0?

Happy Bug Hunting!

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I run 1.5, cant talk about 2.x since never installed it.

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I have not read the previous answers to the op question but in my case moving dcs 1.5 from the hdd to ssd eliminated all my stuttering. Dcs 2.0 does not have that issue so i assume it might be some dcs 1.5 bug.

Also i dont think the drive where the os is installed has any influence.

 

I don't know for sure what kind of stuttering you had. So if it is the I/O then it's still a bug since streaming textures should never cause any stuttering, that's the whole point of streaming.

Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria

 

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trust me.. install dcs onto the ssd and all your problems will go away. If you have space alongside your OS on the current ssd then install to test and you will see it will be perfect.

So grab a new ssd and install everything onto that.. dont worry if your OS is on a different drive, it does not matter.

My Files.....

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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My 980TI on an older Xeon 6 core/12 Hyper with 3 256gb/s SSDs in Raid 0, with everything but heat blur and G-Force off, I only hit stuttering maybe once a game like Oscar Said when you have a dynamic event load, and that's out of your control. Otherwise on a 1440 144 monitor, at a high cruise I stay at or near 144 with all the eye candy forced through my Nvidia panel, and it doesn't drop below 60 unless I'm zoomed in on 2 CBs bouncing and exploding bomb let's everywhere.

 

Just put your game on the SSD, Trim it once every few months, DO NOT Defrag it weekly. And you'll see an immediate improvement. Also, you can get slightly smoother gameplay, that doesn't mean more FPS, by using a display port or Active DVI instead of an HDMI cable.

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I finally installed DCS into the SSD and now Im getting A LOT of stutter like never before.

 

I really dont understand what's going on, all other games and systems run perfect.

 

Could it be the fact that I have the pagefile in the HDD? I would think no since Im not running out of RAM or anything.

 

 

Help?

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UPDATE: I put the pagefile into the SSD and still same huge stutter.

Intel Core i5-8600k + Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO | Gigabyte GTX 1070 Aorus 8G | 32GB DDR4 Corsair Vengance LPX Black 3200MHz | Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 3 | WD Black SN750 NVMe 500GB | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB | WD Green 240GB | WD Caviar Black 1TB SATA 3 | WD Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 3 | EVGA 650 GQ 80+ Gold | Samsung CF391 Curved 32" | Corsair 400C | Steelseries Arctis 5 --- Razer Kraken X Lite | Logitech G305 | Redragon Dyaus 2 K509 | Xbox 360 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Thrustmaster TWCS | TrackIR 5

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You can use a graphic monitoring tool like MSI afterburner or other tool that displays your Ram and Page file usage while the game is running. Running DCS 2.1 with 16 gigs of Ram, I typically also use several Gigs of Pagefile memory. I am running the Page file on the SDD...and that is where your should be. I generally don't experience stutters.

Velocity MicroI7-4790 Windows 7 Home Premium 16Gigs RAM EVGA NVIDIA GTX 1070 500GB SSD TM Hotas Warthog

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I never had stutter on any of my DCS installs in almost 4 years soon. I started on a MacBookPro 15" retina screen with a modest i7/2.6GHz-3.6GHz and 16GB RAM + SSD in FullHD res, then an i7-2600k @ 4.8GHz 16GB multiple SSD's and for a few months this rig from my sig, also no stutter.

 

One cannot say that DCS per se has a stutter problem, it doesnt !

 

What may be the case is that DCS presses a lot of I/O on any system and it can either swallow it and deal with it or your system just isnt properly configured and it just cannot.

 

What "properly" configured is, THAT remains to be revealed, we all look for that damn thing that causes it.

 

 

I have written dozens and dozens of posts regarding this, trying to help people overcome their stutter. What seems to make a difference for some are the following things I remember in this matter:

 

- USB-Latency: It can be as simple as a single USB-device that floods your DMI/PCH with thousands of I/O calls per second, thus voiding a smooth data path for other data to tarvel across the DMI/PCH bottleneck. A 1kHZ Mouse-Pollrate-setting is for sure one of those I would check and tune down to 250 Hz only.

 

- Old Bios or Firmware in ANY of the devices in your rig. Check all your devices for such updates and flash them.

 

- Framerate or lemme say, more precisely FRAMETIME issues. Hard to explain in 2 sentences but in the end your monitor would be to blame for this. Get a good Gaming Monitor and try again if this fixes it. Gsync or FreeSync HIGHLY recommended. Read and educate yourself for this

 

- SSD do not need to be "defragged", you'd kill it pretty soon by doing this often. WIn10 does "TRIM" your SSD by itself, no need to do this but it will not harm if you trim it by command. Google it, educate yourself abou this topic, it pays back if you run SSDs

 

-Heat issues. More than one stutter issue was caused by having the GPU run into the 80'sC°. Most GPUs will start to throttle up&down when hitting 80+°C. Monitor your system every time you play with MSI Afterburner OSD, reduce or expand the OSD's content depending on what you wanna monitor. Make yourself understand what those numbers and graphs ( 4.4.0 Beta11 has graphs in OSD ! ) mean, no excuse, educate yourself to understand the data. there is no shortage in data, only a shortcoming in understanding that info and turn it into usable changes to your setup

 

There has hardly ever been an easy fix for stuttering in DCS. Some got lucky by moving to ( MANDATORY!) SSD(s) but some guys had no luck with moving to SSD alone, just like you.

 

 

Stutter in general is an interruption of data flow and a constant catch-up to gain lead again.

Try to understand what this is, eliminate variables by sleeking your system down to the ONLY things needed makes it easier for you to track it down.

 

I would check the mouse settings for a too high poll rate, disconnect ANY device from USB you dont need for DCS ( even internal USB20 connectors and/or Hubs ).

Check your refreshrate and then ( with MSI Afterburner ! ) check your Frametime ( read the manual to GRAPH it ). If your Frametime does NOT MATCH your FPS you have a high chance to have it nailed, there just wont be a fix other than exchange your office Screen to a GAMING screen I am afraid.

 

Always, not only for DCS, UPDATE your machine and drivers and Bios's of all kind. A stupid soundcard can cause it, a bad Firmware in your SSD could cause it, an out-of-fate Intel chipset and ICH driver may cause it, as well as an ancient ASmedia USB30 driver. Take the time to check this,m as I take the the time to tell you this. There is no excuse to spend time digging all this stuff up until you are ahead of your machine. It will pay back over years whatever you learn about PC's. All those who dont usually pay me to do this, yours here is free, so value it.

 

It can take weeks and months to cover all this, understand and make use of it but it will pay back whenever you have to troubleshoot or optimize your PCs.

 

 

I just came back from a BBQ invite...and I cleaned out that ladies PC from 736 bad boys as a side note while enjoying the BBQ, and it took no sweat to do it. Once you are ahead of your PC it does make fun again. Believe me.

 

Those who dont understnad their PC's will always suffer, slow speed, stutter while gaming despite a powerful PC, get infections that they didnt even know of ( see Lady from sentence before ! )..etc etc..

 

Invest time in understanding it that is my honest advice.

 

..and yeah...BUY GOOD TRUSTED hardware and dont buy cheap, that also seldomly payed back well.

 

 

Bit


Edited by BitMaster

Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Asus 1080ti EK-waterblock - 4x Samsung 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Corsair K70 RGB Pro - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X 

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